Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240702

And doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch, its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Breaking news. Welcome back. We are following the breaking news. New intensity in the war between israel and hamas. We are seeing an increase in explosions over gaza. The idf said their Ground Operation is in their words expanding. Youre looking at live images and were learning from u. S. Officials hostage talks are ongoing. Nic robertson is close to the gaza border in sderot, israel. What are we seeing right now . Looks like weve been watching intercepters during the commercial break. What are you seeing . Yeah. John is pointing the camera at the sky where we were seeing interceptions of rockets towards Central Israel i believe. Those intercepts are over seconds before that, there was a barrage, a salvo of rockets from gaza fired on this location here, the sirens went off. We ducked for cover and we could see the iron dome firing up over our head and intercepting the missiles coming here and right after that to the south of where we are, again, we could see iron dome intercepting missiles coming out of gaza a little bit to our south. I think the picture that he emerges from here in the last ten minutes are missiles fired into cnn entral israel, at the northern end of gaza and then missiles fired a little further south of where we are. At least three salvos in three Different Directions from the same area of gaza. I think if, you know, if this is a response to that very heavy barrage of fire that we saw before outgoing from here, then i think the msage back from hamas would appear to be despite that heavy barrage on to them, theyre able to come out of their bunkers and tunnels and continue to fire back. This evening has really been very much a case of up and down, of a lot of outgoing fire, and then pauses, and then incoming rounds, and then the intercepts, and now perhaps a slight lull. I wont be able to hear you at the moment. Im trying to reconnect to you now. Okay. So Nic Robertson is in sderot. Youre looking at two different Vantage Points from around nics location. Nics camera on the left, an afp camera looking at images over gaza as well. Colonel Cedric Leighton is joining us as we stay on these images. The fact that hamas and other groups kim dozer, Global Affairs analyst, the fact that hamas is still after almost three weeks now of incredibly hew bombardment by israel is still able to fire rockets that were a number of sirens here in tel aviv throughout the day, more so than weve heard in many days, and respond even now at this late hour, what does that tell you . Well, israeli and u. S. Officials have told us they thought that hamas had spent at least a year planning this, at least a year stockpiling the kind of weapons they would need for a sustained response to whatever they trugerred israel into doing, and you see what israel is doing in response is not at least initially the blitz charge into gaza that we all expected but rather what seems like an approach, taking a bit of territory at a time and choosing a few targets at a time and then what we find out from the Israeli Defense forces the next day is they list a number of different targets. No one overnight operation is aimed at one thing. So right now, they could be going after some hostage targets, but there has been, as you and jake both mentioned, a barrage of rockets aimed at tel aviv. So they could be going after that. Kim, quickly, i want to go to Nic Robertson. What are you seeing . Anderson, that was a strange, strange set of events. We were talking about the intercepting missiles and the iron dome fired up from here from further south just to the north of us as well, and as i was standing here, i was listening to a sound like somebody was sweeping the street. The street is deserted. No one lives here. The sound was getting louder and coming up the street and realized this is in all likelihood shrapnel that is raining down a minute after the intercepts in the sky above, the only thing that made logical sense this was shrapnel raining down in the streets here. We took cover, put the helmets on, and took cover. It stopped now, but again, were taught about things we havent seen over previous evening that make the events tonight different. The expanding operational activities are going into gaza. The more Forceful Push that the idf is speaking ability, and these intercepts, the shrapnel coming down after the intercepts are indicative, i think, of the dangers of this situation, frankly, for anyone left living in this town. With heard the idf be specific in their most recent briefing to the citizens of israel saying look, you need to know where your shelter is, you need it know that you can hear the warnings about incoming missiles and intercepts. There are audible warnings, there are apps you can use, and you can also hear the intercepts of the missiles as well, so i think that just reinforces what idf have been warning tcitizens here to stay close to their shelters, the fact that the tempo of operations here is, perhaps, picking up. Weve seen as well a couple of flairs fired in the sky towards gaza. Weve seen those over recent nights, but gone, you would expect flairs to be fired close to or around troops in the field who want to get better visibility on what is the ground in front of them. Illumination to see where the danger is and the enemy hey be hi may be hiding. What we do not know, we heard from rear admiral from the idf saying that Ground Operation in gaza is expanding and do not know to what extent is it expanding. Flares over gaza in certain part of gaza would, perhaps, indicate troops on the ground or movement on the ground in Armored Vehicles and tanks. We have seen over the last day or two some operations and very limited incursions to according to the idf to eliminate any munitions that might be in border areas and reconnaissance posts and to sort of soften and level the ground for the next phase. General wesley clark is joining us. As you see the flares being fired into the air off parts of gaza and what youre hearing from the idf, what do you make of whats going on . I think what we have here is what we would call a reconnaissance in force. Its a large force going in and looking to probe the enemys defenses, find out reaction, collect intelligence, maybe take prisoners, get into the tunnel complex and may or may not stay in. If they find that this is advantageous approach and theres not much resistance an theyre going to a strategic objective there inside gaza, maybe theyll hold their ground. If theres heavy resistance, maybe theyll pull back. I think this is one of those operations where the israelis have multiple options. They can come in from a different direction. They can hold. They can go under ground and deceive the enemy using smoke and other things about where they are. So this is [ inaudible ] [ no audio ] general clark, im not sure if youre still with us. I was having trouble hearing your audio there. If you are, we have seen in past operations the Idf Sort Of Making Faints to see what hamas does in terms of movement of troops and response and a response. Youre saying its possible that is also whats going on here. Some of this could be smaller incursions to kind of see what dominos fall . Thats exactly right. This could be a faint. It could also be something that could expand into a hold operation. If you were planning this operation militarily, you would be asking yourself, what are the key objectives in gaza that we have to control. It could be infrastructure like a Water Treatment plants, it could be power plants, it could be communication facilities. Then the question is, from there, how do you [ inaudible ] the ground so this could be a reconnaissance directed in that specific direction. Global affairs analyst. Theres no regardless of what is happening in this hour, this operation is likely to go on for a very long period of time. Theres it seems like israel, at this point, believes it has time on its side, although certainly as we have seen in past operations, the International Communitys response to operations in gaza does start to take a toll on the pressure that the idf feels. I mean, it does. Look, there has been ranker inside of israel. People want the hospitals out, they want payback. Theres a lot of pressure on the netanyahu government to do something. The targeted raids have taken some of the air out of the balloon. They have been doing something. With the negotiations going on with the hostages through qatar, theres another argument, is hamas just trying to use the negotiations to stay israels hand and draw this out, each day the hostages stay in hamas hand is another day in danger, or do we trust them enough to give this time to work . U. S. Officials believe they were on the verge of something that cnn reported much earlier today, many hours ago, they thought they were about to get several hostages out and that seemed to fall apart and now we have this uptick in attacks. The other thing we could be seeing is, israel has had time to question the four hostages who have been released, possibly they were able to make a map and educated guess as to where the large hall is that a number of hostages are being held that one of the hostages described. Maybe now is the time to break into the nearby tunnels under the cover of darkness and speed and get as many as they can out. Welcome back to our continuing coverage the idf saying that Ground Operation in gaza is expanding. We heard that in our last hour from Daniel Hagari from the idf. Nic robertson in sderot for us, general wesley clark. I lost communications with you before. Just in terms of options the idf has, there are a lot of ways they could proceed from here. People are expecting some massive assault on gaza across the entire length of the border from the sea and air, that may not be what israel has planned. This could be a much slower, more methodical move. I think, anderson, youre actually right. It needs to be a slow, methodical movement. We dont know whether this is the start of it, or simply a reconnaissance in force. Theyve come in different areas. This is the third night theyve done this. This could be a series of probes to see how the palestinians and hamas reacts. It could be an effort to check their weapons systems. It could be an effort to draw communications up so they can get better intelligence or all of that, or they could decide at this point if theres not that much resistance, if theyre headed towards a strategic objective inside gaza like the power plant or the desal point, they may continue and pour more forces in on that corridor. What we know about urban combat is, its easier to get in initially than it is to stay in and hold your force and move to a large r holding. The idea they will move up their forces around the periphery and charge in there, absolutely not. Theyre going to pick their points, go after those points and expand their control outward and downward from that. General clark, this has been one of the contentious points about any Ground Operation, you the scale of us, is it Something Like the u. S. Forces undertook in fallujah or u. S. And iraqi forces undertook in mosul, you know, house by house. There was not the large civilian population in fallujah that there is in gaza city and there was not the presence of some 200 plus hostages. Thats exactly right. The hostages werent there. Fallujah was a tenth of the size of gaza with a tenth of the population and the u. S. Planned the operation for six months before we went in. We had a communication plan, information plan, deception plan, logistics plan, everything staged, and it was still, treemly difficult. About 90 of the population left. Theres one key difference between what the u. S. Did in fallujah and mosul and what the israelis may be intending to do here. We tried to free the city from the terrorists. We wanted to get them out. They wanted to stay, but we left an opening for them when it got too tough, they could flee. We could still accomplish the mission. Here the mission assigned by the Prime Minister is to destroy hamas, and that means, they dont israel doesnt want them leaving to go somewhere else. They want to pin them in there, hold them, and eliminate them. This is a different mission. It probably means tougher fighting. And theres only one way to do it really and thats step by step. Going in fast, going in hasty, increases losses, doesnt ensure the accomplishment of the mission. Israels Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu the other day made a speech in which he said there are two goals to israels operation. First of all, he characterized this as a fight for the existence of israel, but said there were two main goals, the elimination of hamas, both militarily and politically, and also doing Everything Possible to bring back the hostages, to rescue hostages. Are those two goals necessarily the psalm . I mean the tactics to achieve both those goals are they in some ways contradictory . They might be contradictory, but theyre also complimentary in some ways. Because we dont know, israel presumably doesnt know where the hostages are, so as you advance into gaza on the ground, youre intercepting enemy communications, cutting land lines, going into tunnels, capturing prisoners, getting information, and youre always working to sort through where are the hostages. Theres a risk of the hostages are held some place and israel strikes it with a bomb or cannon fire, yeah, you may lose hostages. Its in hamas interest to keep those hostages safe and alive. Theyre using the hostages in a Public Relations game against israel and against the united states, and so they dont want the hostages to be hurt. Now you cant count on that. If youre the parents of someone who is held hostage your heart is going to be in your throat all the time. For israel this is an existential threat. They have to go in, they have to go in on the ground, they have to eliminate hamas, and in the process, hopefully theyll get the information they need then to conduct a Special Operations Raid so the other things that are necessary to get to those hostages. Were going to take a short break and our coverage continues. You want to be able to provide your child with the tools or resources they need. With reliable internet at home, through the internet essentials program, the world opened up. Fellas, fellas. Thats how my son was able to find the hidden genius project. We wanted to give yall the necessary skills to compete with the future. Kevins now part of this next generation of young people who feel they can thrive. We will get back to Anderson Cooper in the middle east where we are tracking new activity in the gaza strip. The idf confirming not long ago that they had expanded operations if gaza. Thats right. Lets go now to Becky Anderson in doha, qatar. What are you tracking from there . Yeah. Its interesting, earlier on today, what a positive note from diplomatic sources who are very familiar with these qatarled talks to try to elicit the release of the 229 hostages, and that number just out of the idfs Press Conference about a couple of hours ago, so were talking about 229 abductees, Mediation Efforts continue, led by the qataris in trying to illicit the release of some of those hostages. It does appear these hostages are being seen as civilians on the one side and military soldiers on the other. Its tonot clear how many are soldiers and civilians. There are foreign nationals and Israeli Citizens and there are women, children, and the elderly. One assumes those have to assume, we havent. Told this specifically, those are the hostages who are being seen as and negotiated for as civilians. So at this stage, earlier on today, its quite late in the evening here now, half past 10 00 in qatar, we were told that these discussions were hopful. There were still issues to be ironed out, but did appear there was a sense of a breakthrough at this point and some sense there might be an announcement in the coming hours. Well, clearly with the news now of the expansion of Israeli Operations this is somewhat delayed. I havent heardi anything furthr from my diplomatic sources for what is familiar going on here. We heard from the Idf Spokesman who was specific and described the holding and negotiation of hostages as psychological terror and cynical use of israeli civilians, i assume he means other as well, the foreign nationals, by hamas. I dont think anybody will disagree with that line. Hostage taking is hostage taking, and it is, im sure, many of our viewers would agree, is psychological terror and use of Israeli Citizens by hamas. The fact is, this is a war and that is whats going on. We await to see whether we can get more information at this point. But certainly, you know, the expanded operations as having been described by the idf as now ongoing, perhaps, obviously, changing the equation somewhat in what was very hopeful signs for the release of some of these hostages. Back to you guys. And becky, we are watching some live pictures here out of gaza, but quickly, these earlier releases we saw of two americans and two israeli hostages, are these seen as a template for something larger, test cases for the process of releasing hostages . That was thats certainly the way that it was described to me, diplomatic sources who had been talking to us last friday on the release of the American Mother and her 17yearold daughter and then on tuesday this week, of course, when you saw the Roo Learelease of two elderly israeli women, it seemed as if there was momentum to this and certainly reports behind the scenes suggesting that what we the momentum was growing for a significant number of hostages to be released. Im not suggesting for a moment that all 229 were discussed. I dont know that. Certainly there were numbers floating around as many as 50 or possibly more. So i think you could possibly suggest that those Qatar Led Negotiations Including Egypt this week and last friday was a test case for what might happened next at this stage, obviously, we wait to see what happens in the hours to come. All right. Becky anderson in doha, thank you for that report. We just want to update you that we got word from the white house they are monitoring the situation, however the National Security Council Spokesman john kirby told reporters the white house was not going to, quote, get into the habit of chiming in from the sidelines here on what theyre doing on the ground. The white house not looking to weigh in on whats happening with specifics just yet. We want to take you back to the region. Anderson cooper is there for us in tel aviv. Anderson . Yeah. Boris, brianna, thanks so much. Something Becky Anderson said about the idfs response to the questions about a deal in the works. This is from Daniel Hagari, he said regarding the rumors circulating, over 200 hostages held in gaza and a deal, he said i will answer it this way, i suggest you disregard rumors. This is psychological terror and a use of civilians by hamas. We will reach and present any credible information whether civilian, intelligence or operational, be given to the Families First once confirmed and then notify the public. Dont surrender to hamas manipulations of what he describes as psychological terror. Want to check in with Nic Robertson in sderot right now. Nic, talk about the sort of the pace of what you have been seeing over the last 20 minutes or so compared to what it was earlier. Yeah. Feels like the pace has sort of dropped off a little bit in terms of artillery strikes. There are still some, but what we have heard and seen in the last few minutes, last five minutes or ten minutes, perhaps indicates some activity on the ground. When i say activity, Military Activity and possibly troops in combat on the ground. Were seeing weve seen a couple of flairs coming up that typically soldiers would use in the battlefield to illuminate the area ahead of them to perhaps flush out the enemy. Were seeing a couple flares. We dont know why theyre used right now. Weve heard heavy bursts of Machine Gunfire and sometimes when we hear heavy Machine Gunfire there are bursts, bang, bang, bang, this wasnt that. This was a very sustained firing of a Heavy Machine Gun for a period of time, relatively short but period of time, and heard that on a couple occasions which perhaps indicates that troops are engaged in some level of fire fight on the ground inside of gaza right now. We cant keydefine it or know f sure what it is and the sounds of what were seeing. Its indicative of what the idf has been speaking about, about using greater force and expanding the incursions going on over the past couple nights that have ended each night with troops coming out, tanks, artillery and Armored Vehicles going in, but all of that coming out at the end of the night. So i think were seeing more of that play out this evening. The tempo in the past 20 minutes a little quieter immediately before that, levels of rocket fire coming out of gaza. None of that in the past 20 minutes, i would say. Nuic, is it clear how many smaller incursions israel has made over the last couple days . We have the idf released video which well get and try to show as soon as we get it of an incursion that took place in which we see tanks moving into the territory in gaza just over the border, and essentially kind of Leveling Ground and they said it was also kind of looking for any kind of munitions that might be there, eliminating any Reconnaissance Towers or Observation Posts that might be there. They called it a prelude to any other force that would come across. Do we know how frequent that has been taking place . I think that the incursion that we were told about by the idf two nights ago, over my shoulder here you can see some Bright Lights on the horizon there, the border crossing, in the darkness beyond that is a town called zakim and it was an incursion south of there and that seemed to be a single incursion. To locate that precisely, thats right on the Northern Edge of gaza, not far from and a few miles from the sea. The idf this morning talked ability, spoke about incursions last night and there they spoke about incursions that were further south towards harmunis. Were talking about 10, 12, 15 miles south of where we are, the central and southern central gaza area. So those incursions there, its not clear how many, but the indication was that a couple of different locations. Were not getting entire specifics because, obviously, thats operational detail that the idf doesnt want to put in the public domain. As you say, it will be used for the followon incursions of or troops to come in, in a safer manager. As you were discussing with general wesley clark earlier, to rush others in quickly can lead to casualties on your own side. Thats something that idf will have great concern about because that is very sensitive, the higher the casualty toll on the idf side, on the israeli side, the greater the political pressure would be on the government to change course and try a different approach. Thats not the intent of this government. They really do want to see this through to the end, the end being the do stestruction of ha well take another quick break and our coverage continues 73 continues. Welcome back to our continuing coverage. We are watching what the Israeli Defense forces are calling an expansion of their Ground Operation, the full scale of it we do not know. Weve been watching both the skies over gaza and listening as well with our correspondents all along the border. Sara sidner is with me in tel aviv. There has been a lot of waiting for an operation to begin, a lot of questions about why a larger operation has not begun. There were a lot of israeli officials talking about an imminent Ground Operation weeks ago. What are you hearing . I think there is a little bit of a dissension between some in the military, some in the government trying to figure out what they can do. Theyre worried about three different things. One is a long war where theyre on the ground in urban warfare that can be deadly and dangerous not only for israeli troops but civilians as well. Two a wider war. Theyre concerned whether or not hezbollah is going to get involved in a much larger way if they go in full scale on the ground. You can see thousands of israeli troops on the ground in gaza. Three what they do if they go in with the full thousands of troops inside of gaza. Do they stay, try to govern gaza . This has happened before and they left. So there are these three things sort of humaning over them. You have one more that is different from times past when they have taken, for example, one soldier. They have more than 200 people who are hostages, innocent people taken by hamas, that are still there in those tunnels and so they also have to make that a calculation, never mind the civilian casualties that they are racking up at this point inside of gaza so many different factors here and different clocks, different times. I mean there is concern, obviously, about from the idf Standpoint Keeping 360 some odd thousand reservists on the borders away from their families, keeping them in readiness and how long can that can they do that before it begins to affect morale and other questions are raised. Theres the International Pressure. I think the International Pressure is probably perhaps the most concerning because as this has gone on, and it happened every single time there has been a largescale military operation, this one being an official war declared by israel, so different from times past, but there is always the concern that over time and its already happening with the number of civilians who have been killed, youre going to get some reaction from the International Community and already there are some nations asking for a ceasefire and as that cry grows with the number of civilians killed israel is going to at some point respond to that. They cannot keep going at this point. Something has to give. The reservists talking to a few of them theyre ready whenever theyre asked at this point because of what happened on october 7th, because they all know someone who was killed or kidnapped. Yeah. Sara sidner, thanks very much. Arlette saenz is at the white house for us. What are we hearing from the white house . They say theyre in active talks with israel about a humanitarian pause. Yeah. Anderson a short while ago the white house National Security spokesperson briefed reporters and was very quite careful and deliberate in not weighing in specifically on the tactics being used by israel right now when it comes to a possible Ground Operation. The white house saying it would not be appropriate at this time to weigh in on those matters, that these decisions are up to the Israeli Defense forces. The white house has talked about the need to continue the talks when it comes to trying to free the hostages, which include several americans. John kirby, National Security Council Spokesperson says the u. S. Does support a pause if there would be an opportunity get these hostages out. That is something the u. S. Is in active conversations with israel about tifz at this moment. It comes at a delicate time as were seeing israel pick up their operations, whether strikes or this Ground Operation, against hamas, and it comes as President Biden just on wednesday had said that he believes that israel does have the responsibility to go after hamas, but they also need to ensure the protection of civilians is top of mind in this moment. Now the president earlier today was briefed by his National Security Team Including Jake Sullivan and defense secretary lloyd austin. The white house wouldnt detail whether it involved discussions about the Ground Operations, but it does come as the white house has been watching this with much concern when it comes to the civilian lives and the efforts to get hostages out from hamas. All right. Arlette saenz, thank you very much at the white house. We continue to watch the situation over the skies over gaza. Were going to take a short break and well be right back. And welcome back to our continuing coverage of the what israels calling expanding Ground Operation in gaza. Jim sciutto is along israels northern border with lebanon. I want to go to him. Jim, what are you seeing there tonight, and obviously a lot of eyes will be on that border if and when this operation in gaza really expands . No question, israels been watching this northern border very closely since october 7th for a reaction, the possibility of a second front from hezbollah, of course also hamas backed by iran, and in particular a greater alert as theyve expanded operations now no gaza. Today up here we saw two hezbollah strikes towards israel, one falling in israel, another one that seemed to go off course and go into northern syria. Israel responding to those. And as weve been up here, weve heard outgoing israeli artillery. At this point, though, it has maintained sort of what you might call a low simmer of tensions between hezbollah and israel. The real concern is as those operations expand into gaza that hezbollah would amp up its reaction and attempt to attack more aggressively, and i can tell you having spoken to idf forces up here over the last several days, they have Tens Of Thousands of them, a raid on the northern border. They are watching very closely for exactly that scenario. There is also the concern, of course, looking to israels northern border with syria where there are also iranianbacked bl militias, and thats exactly where the u. S. Carried out strikes today because those iranianbacked militias over the last several days have been taking shots at u. S. Forces in the region, both in syria and in iraq, and those strikes today from the u. S. On those syrian bases seems to be a message dont even think about attacking u. S. Forces, or if you do, the u. S. Is going to take that very seriously. That was clear in secretary austins statement on those strikes saying its separate from israels operations against hamas in gaza, but if iran is thinking about further expanding those attacks that the u. S. Is going to respond accordingly. And jim, thats one of the things that israeli officials point to. They say that the arrival of those Aircraft Carrier groups by the u. S. , thats really a message to hezbollah. Yeah. Its true. Ive spoken with a number of Israeli Military officers and officials who believe that that Message Sending from the u. S. And by the way, its substantive Message Sending, right, because its two Carrier Groups in the Eastern Mediterranean with all the military capabilities that they carry as well as other forces coming into the region for forced protection, increased missile defense. We saw a case already of a u. S. Destroyer off the coast of yemen shooting down missiles fired by ira iranianbacked houthis, the u. S. Believes toward iran, that that is a substantive Military Presence in the region that gives them the capability to defend israel, defend u. S. Bases in the region, but also to react if iran attempts to expand this war either through its own forces or through its proxies. And as you say, anderson, there were a lot of folks here in israel that give some credit to that deployment to helping to deter an expansion at least so far. Jim sciutto reporting along israels northern border. Were going to take a short break. Our coverage will continue. To duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today