Transcripts For CNBC Power Lunch 20171121

Theyre dad better be thankful were going to take you there live power lunch set to come out of oven right now strong gains on wall street this hour. The dow is up triple digits. The s p costing the 2600 mark for the very first time. Its been more than two weeks since the s p was able to screen back to back gains the best performing grews. Check out some individual movers up 4 on its earnings. The food Company Early morning its grocery and Specialty Food business the company missing top and bottom line estimates. Dsw plunging double digits also missing profits in sales estimates. As a Virginia Tech hokie, calling me a turkey is the greatest compliment you can give thank you, michelle. Gobble up. We begin with a cloud of uncertainty hovering over one of the biggest deals in media history. The Justice Department slapping at t and time warner with a lawsuit saying the 85 billion deal is quote illegal and harmful to consumers at t Ceo Randall Stephenson fighting back against the doj decision this defies lodgic. Its unprecedented ive done a lot of deals in my career but ive never done one where we have disagreed with the department of justice so much on even the most basic of facts the man at the center of the lawsuit said in the complaint that quote, this merger would greatly harm american consumers. It would mean mostly higher television bills and fewer of the new emerging innovative options that consumers are beginning to enjoy, end quote. At t says it is ready to go to trial immediately. The companys outside counsel speaking to cnbc that it just doesnt add up why in the world would at t purchase time warner to restrict viewership, to restrict distributi distribution if they could get a lot more people to subscribe to at t wireless the problem with that theory, it would not work. You would have to lose so many subscribers and they would all have to go to one service, ie, directv in order to make up for the immediate and substantial loss of revenues, advertising re revenues the whole theory makes no sense. It would bring 46 million pay tv customers with time warners Networks Like cnn and hbo. Officials have demanded that at t and time warner must sell the group of channels including cnn if they ultimately would like proof we heard President Trump lay into cnn so many times he first voiced his opposition more than a year ago thats right. Some moving parts earlier today. Change of judges in this case. Take a look at whose out and who is in. The judge who is out is casey cooper the judge who is in is richard leon this may have something to do with the marriage thats representing one of the parties in the deal. Well wait and see if we get more clarity on that a very skeptical about this particular deal and threatening to block it. Heres what he said last year. As an example of the power structure im fighting, at t is buying time warner and thus cnn. A deal we will not approve in my administration because its too much concentration of power in the hands of too few a big round of applause there for the president last year when he said he would not approve this deal in his administration. So far as president he hasnt made comments as directly as that his antitrust chief did make some comments last year in october. Heres what he said at the time. He said just the sheer size of this deal and the fact its media, i think, will get a lot of attention however, i dont see this as a major antitrust problem thats what the man who went onto become trumps antitrust chief said last year this year he has changed his views. A lot of speculation in washington as to why he changed his views. Did he do it on the merits after having reviewed the details of this case or were there politics in play . The white house was asked if anybody from the white house contacted anybody from the department of justice yesterday and the answer was no. They say this is being done on the merits back over to you got it. Thank you so much. Were going to continue this discussion in just a second. Breaking news very close the president ial pardon of the turkeys. Wish bone onand drumstick. Whos going to get it . To president harry truman did not grant the pardon he refused he was a tough cookie. Today, im going to be a much nicer president. Over the past ten months melania and have had the pleasure of welcoming many, many special visitors to the great white house. Weve hosted dozens of incredible world leaders, members of congress and along the way a few very strange birds. We have yet to receive any visitors quite like our magnificent guest of honor today, drumstick hi, drumstick. Drumstick is going to be very happy. Im pleased to report that unlike millions of other turkeys at this time of the year, drumstick has a very, very Bright Future ahead of him drumstick was raised on charles and carlys turkey farm in minnesota with the help of five young women from the Douglas County 4h chapter who are here with us today. Great work where are they please stand great job youve done. 4h thats great thank you. Upon being pardoned, drumstick and his friend, wish bone will live out their days at gobblers rest beautiful place. Its custom built. Its an enclosure on the dam cas of Virginia Tech there theyll join tater and tot. The two turkeys pardoned last year by president obama. Ive been active of overturning a number of executive actions b me predecessor ive been informed that tater and tots pardons cannot under any circumstances be revoked were not going to revoke it tater and tot, you can rest easy id also like to thank the National Turkey federation for bringing along two other turkeys from jandels turkey farm in pennsylvania were donates these turkeys to marthas table a fantastic charity right here in washington, d. C. That provides warm meals to people in need they do a fantastic job. Before we get to the pardon, i would like to take a moment to extent our very heartfelt special message. Thanks thanks, folks. To the fines and bravest people in the entire world, our great men and women in uniform, the military law enforcement. First responders these are incredible people. Thank you. This thanksgiving i want each of you to know were forever grateful for the incredible job and for the incredible sacrif e sacrifices that you and your families make in defense of our nation, our freedom and our truly Great American flag. Id also like to express my thanks to the wonderful citizens of our country, the people who care for our communities, raise americas children, uphold our laws and values and make this amazing land into our National Home as we gather together were reminded of the National Family to which we all belong as citizens of this incredible country. This thursday as we give thanks to our cherished love ones let us renew our bonds of trust r, loyalty and affection as members of a proud, National Family of americans. Now i think drumstick and wish bone would be very thankful if we would just get around to the pardon they say enough talk, please pardon us. I want to thank everybody for being here today and wish everybody a very, very happy thanksgiving very special people, a very special country. Thank you very much. Thank you. Wow. Big bird how heavy is that bird 36 pounds 36 pounds thats a big bird. Am i allowed to touch him . Youre allowed to touch him feel so good about myself are you ready drumstick . Okay drumstick, you are here by pardoned [ applause ] thank you very much, everybody thank you. Drumstick seems awfully pleased, dont you think president pardon he dodged a bullet, literally. They dont do it with a bullet anymore im not sure what you do in your family shes a city girl lets get back to the big story. The doj standing in the way. Gentlemen, thanks for indulging us during that annual tradition we all enjoy so much here in the United States. Let me start with you. What do we know about the judge who has been assigned to this case shares of time warner are higher today because he approved the comcast nbc deal and the market is looking at that and saying, okay, maybe this deal with go through. Is it right to conclude that i think this deal is like the nbc comcast deal i cant understand why the Justice Department isnt treating it the same in terms of remedies it sought when at t and time warner decided to merge with respect oto the judge, hes a very well respected judge. Hes a bush appointee. Hes been very middle of the road applies the law. I think he looks at each case on its fact i also have to think hes going to wonder why a very similar case was before him not all that long ago and the Justice Department has adopted an entirely new theory and one thats completely inconsistent with Economic Analysis as its developed over the last 20 and 30 years i read his eight page statement when he approved the deal of comcast and nbc. He was skeptical he wasnt convinced that the remedies were going to work. They werent enforceable he allowed it to go through any ways i wonder if theres any whisper of doubt as a result of some of the things he said back then fair question before you get to the question of remedy, you should ask if theres a problem that needs remedying. Typically virtually always the government is concerned about mergers that eliminate co competiti competition. These two dont compete with each other time warner creates tvs shows. At t distribute it they do not compete. Theres not one job lost, not one factory closed, no assets moved overseas we always assume vertical mergers meaning Different Levels of the distribution scale create efficiency i think the judge is going to grapple with that question here where as he took that as a given in the last case where it was con se Consent Decree before limb its going be easy for us to say as the president himself going after cnn because of their well known problems. Is he influencing the doj because of what he said in the sound bite that he has run do you believe the president has any influence at all whether or not the government filed this lawsuit . Theres no other rational explanati explanation. I trust policy over 30 years ive looked at democratic and republican administrations, this is a weak case it doesnt make any sense. Yet we have the president constantly tweeting about b cnn and attacking cnn and we know the political motivations underlie a lot of the Decision Making in the white house what about the doj . In the doj do you believe the white house would have any influence as to whether or not the department of justice would file this antitrust lawsuit we dont know till we get the facts as to what influence there was in the white house in the Nixon White House the president himself told the department of justice to drop an antitrust lawsuit against at t. That was caught on tape. The attorney general had to resign because he wasnt truthful to the congress about that they need to have hearings and find out who said whatnot only in the white house but in the department of justice. He cant pardon two turkeys without bringing up the obama turkeys without talking about hed like to have them on his thanksgiving dinner table. We have to confidence in the decisions being made in this administration if we can just depoliticize this for a moment if thats possible at all. Taking a look the arguments the government is putting forth that it could result in higher bills for consumers, isnt it reasonable and believable that they, being at t time warner could charge other distributors a little bit more for content that would end up resulting in higher bills for the consumer or it could stamp out some of the upstart streaming Services Like a sling tv those are the arguments the government is putting forth. Whether or not you like how the case got here, this is the case. How would you argue against that i would say that anybody can make a theoretical argument but it has to be backed up with some form of data or economics. Theres nothing ng that complaint that shows any direct evidence that shows at t plan to discriminate in the sale of time warner programming it would be against their economic selfinterest theyre not the biggest cable player out there they only make revenue from time warner content if they sell it to other Cable Companies its odd because in the first part of the complaint the government is talking about concern these other Cable Operators will be discriminating against. The last part of the complaint flips over completely inconsistent with first half and says their theory of harm is that at t will get together and oligopolisticy coordinate behavior with paid tv distributor. Ly coordinate behavior with paid tv distributor. It just doesnt make sense to me is it a fair question if the judge had been in his position earlier, do you think amazon would have been allowed to buy whole foods . A lot of these questions need to be asked by the judge and by congress this could be a case under the First Amendment of constitution if this is being done for retaliatory reasons. The antitrust arguments dont add up theres something wrong. Who talked about this case with who in the Justice Department, in the white house, if at all. In the rnc, other organizations. Was this politically motivated this is really the reverse of what happened with at t and the antitrust case that president nixon asked to be dropped. Congress investigated that this needs to be investigated as well our freedom of the press is at stake. Kevin, are you as concerned whether or not theres nefarious reasons for this case being brought forward . You have plenty of political analysts who are far more qualified than i to speak to that how about the amazon, whole foods to answer that would you worry about that deal having been approved i would worry in the sense that one thought that vertical or conglomerate mergers were safe from scrutiny since this is the same type of transaction, its not even that the government is giving them a chance to get the same out that comcast nbc had but insisting on block it that that is. Good to have you on today thank you. Thank you a controversial change to tax reform that threatens to hurt investors up next the man who has been talking about it for 20 years. 2017 has been great year for your money the major averages hitting record high. Will it be rinse andept reafor 2018 that and much more ahead on power hundred mp what we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. Except that the next morning it all makes sense. 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Just month and a half left in trading this year theres also a month and a half in the year. We had some pretty good calls over the past couple of years. He was right on this year. What is he seeing for you and your money next year hes the chief investment strategist theres no way we can duplicate this year next year, is there . Sure there is turn offer the noise, turn offer the news in washington earnings are growing Interest Rates are still low policy is turning but were not going to see a lot of Interest Rate hikes earnings are a keeping pace with prices thats a pretty Good Environment to own stocks. It is ill push back by saying Everybody Knows that the market is supposed to be a discounting mechanism. The stuff we buy now is what we expect 6, 9, 12 months from now. How do we know that stuff ask not already in the market . Thats the easiest question ive ever been asked my job here is done this hour nobody believes that because we are involved in marketplace that lacks perspective. Nobody understands fundamental investing anymore. The last ten years has been dominated by momentum, quantitative easing. Interest rates only go down. We believe an era of active investing is upon us good Old Fashioned bare bone stock picking and building portfolios again we continue believe even after the run since 2009 and we have been basic sesziexcessively bul 2009 whats your allocation . It sounds like you should be almost fully allocated to stocks at this point. We dont get paid for holding cash were overweight financials. We also downgrade a sector of consumer stables to underway and starting to see the fundamental attributes we think the market goes higher. We think were heading into an 80s and 90s type of environment that will pay for perspective. Were going to have paid for perspective again and think so much has been run by momentum and emotion and not doing the work and per bryans point, i think people understand what earnings are anymore they are so worried about being wrong we dont want to be right and were not fundamental investing anymore. You dont like anything thats got any kind of yield why . We dont because a couple things utilities are one of the most expensive assets of the world. They are becoming more expensive given the fact cash flow is deteriorating. Think about how much money they have to spend in terms of digging holes in florida number two, its been an area that we think of the three bond proxies could see some solidify indication in the years to come because its more groe orieth g oriented think about the issues with respect to pricing and earnings. We love dividends growth its a different theme than high yield. T those types of total proposals that have cash flow yields that continue to grow earnings. Thats the theme we play inside from high quality and value in 2018 thanks. Thank you is. Happy thanksgiving. Same to you its the new outrage over the tax bill working its way through congress a hidden tax in the senate bill is looking to change how investors can sell stocks and raising heat from critics. The plan would prevent investors from minimizing by forcing you to sell your oldest shares first. You can choose the specific shares you want to sell. This proposal could cost investors more than 2 billion in taxes over the next ten years. Our next guest has been a proponent of firstin, firstout policy great to have you with us. Sure. Great to be here thank you. Youre smiling but a lot of individual investors do not like what you have to say why is this fair we started looking at investor choices in 1990 to try to determine how brokers could best report gains and losses to investors. Congress pursued the path report gains and losses to investors and congress preserved all the gift choices investors had, fifo, average cost now as we discussed and thought about different approaches, i think a lot of policy observers think all these choices make the tax more complicated congress is simplifying the tax law by reducing choices. That will make the brokers line and reporting easier that will make the irss life of compliance easier and i think it will simplify and provide less confusion to investors as well there is a cost. All that is, investors may end up paying more in taxes. They will probably end up paying more in taxes i mean if youre buy and hold investors and youve held, you bought apple when it was 30 buc a share, if youre forced to sell even if you bought apple at a higher cost basis and want to sell those chairs, i understand your idea of simplification because it makes the brokers a lot easier but an individual investors, this administration that wants to deliver a tax cut for most americans this is a tax increase well, part of what the congress is attempting there is tax reform and that means closing a lot of different loopholes and choices and trying to lower rates overall this switch to a single method is one of those steps. Now mind you congress is also slashing Corporate Tax rates from 35 to 20 . That will increase after tax earnings and will increase stock prices i think we have seen some of it already and well see more investors are doing pretty well overall on this tax package. Steve, it seems to me it feels like a violation of property rights. I want to sell something i own when i want to sell it not when the government tells me i should sell it the government is not instructing you on when you sell your property. You still choose to sell your property approximate all the government is doing is restricting the range of accounting methods stock is spongeable. We now hold stock through depository transfer accounts and the like we dont own paper certificates. Were not picking one over the other. Its always fifo firstin, firstout i think the legislation has drafted allows taxpayers to open new accounts with a different broker setting and sell shares from the new account as opposed to dipping into an earlier account. This penalizes individuals, does it not . Mutual funds are exempt but individuals are not. Should mutual funds be subject to this rule well, the owners of mutual funds are individuals. Mutual funds today can cherry pick their portfolio take the high basis stock and not the low basis stock if they choose to do so. They are pretty sophisticated. They can grapple with these decisions pretty easily. Are you saying that mutual funds are more capable it almost sounds like youre saying the individual investors is not equipped to deal with the more complicated rule is that what youre saying to some extent. Theres tens of millions of investors out there. If you add a few minutes to each invest investors to think to what basis can i elect, what do they mean that adds up to a fair amount of complication that sounds terribly patronizing. Not patronizing heres the bottom line tax reform is hard to try to tax laws and reduce choices and make things easier, sometimes it costs some people a little money now theres lots of constituencies for all sorts of different tax break fs in the cd but trying to find a constituency is a challenge. I work on the hill for many years and we try to devise rules to simplify things theres some sacrifices that some people need to make if we all protect every loophole and every device and every calculation in the code, we wont get a very simple code well have codes that goes thousands and thousands you think this will go through . I think its 50 50. The senate included this measure. The house did not. I think its tough to include any measure that harms any constituency even if it results in simplification. I think its 50 50 at best i think the extent that people get alarmed and over react to this proposition, i think that will slow things down. Hard to say. Melissa will call her congressman right now. Thank you appreciate your time if you want to simplify the tax code, i have a crazy idea. Dont tax the gain on stock at all. Just get rid of it that would be much easier. You choose firstin, firstout youre on your own the point is i want that choice. Do you do your own taxes . No. I do. Its hard. Done it for 17 years i agree its difficult. Thats why i out source it dict kovacevich will join us the housing crisis in Silicon Valley yes its a crisis for many families were going to show you what a crisis it is its the home of google but also the home to a long line of rvs the People Living in those cant afford the skyrocketing rents here in the bay area well tell you more about it coming up in a live report opportunities arent always obvious. Sometimes they just drop in. Cme group can help you navigate risks and capture opportunities. We enable you to reach Global Markets and drive forward with broader possibilities. Cme group how the world advances. Update for this hour President Trump and russias Vladmir Putin spoke this morning on the phone for about an hour they discussed several issues including iran, afghanistan. They discussed the future of syrian peace talks if youre shopping online for this holidays hottest toys be ware of counterfeit version of fingerlings the Company Behind the monkey toys says its sued 165 counterfeiters and they are warning customers to avoid third party sellers. As you probably know before christmas or hanukkah comes thanksgiving and that holiday get away is under way. Travelers in atlanta had lots of company while checking in and going through security aaa expects 150 Million People to travel over the weekend the most in 12 years good morning alaska. Take a look at that. Residents waking up in anchorage were treated to a spectacular show by mother nature. A beautiful display of the northern lights. Thats the news update this hour back to you. Thank you very much. Record highs on wall street right now. Take a check on where the stock market stands here we have the dow up triple digits the nasdaq is the biggest gainer of the major three up by a percentage point or 68 points. S p 500 up by about 18 lots of names hitting all time highs. Two hotel name also on the list. Hilton world wide and marriott international. Each up 2 home sales in focus for two different reasons. Increasingly out of control prices in Northern California are forcing some families to find some creative ways and places to live two, some changes to tax policy in the proposed bill will impact first time home buyers especially in higher cost areas. Lets begin with you reporter listings now down over 10 from a year ago to the lowest supply since the realtors began tracking this in 1999. That continues to push Prices Higher and now buyers are worried that the tax plan will only add to the high cost of housing. Theres concerns about the mortgage Interest Deduction. Theres concerns about the caps on some of the tax rates theres concerns that because were in such a higher tax area it will make a big difference for them theres places here in new jersey where the taxes are 20,000 plus for a house thats not a mega mansion. Reporter he spent last saturday showing couples new jersey homes they say they believe in the value of homeownership without the tax breaks but competition in the market is pricing them out even before any new tax law. People will completely just blind bid on houses. They wont go and tabke a look t the house in person. They will blind bid before we even get there. Reporter one thing the potential tax plan is already doing is creating uncertainty in the market and that is never a good thing in real estate. Of course, some buyers may want to jump in and get grandfathered into the mortgage reduction just in case they get reduced from that plan. The rv line streets of mountain view, california. Reporter hi there. We are in mountain view, California Home to google headquarters and the average house here is about 1. 5 million to rent here. It will cost you about 3,000 a month. Thats priced out a lot of people case the in point, look at this long line of dozens of rvs the People Living in them have been priced out of houses and apartments in the bay area they are forced to live in rvs like the ones you see here and all around Silicon Valley. There are some streets that are lined with rvs its prompting a lot of municipalities to crack down on them even in East Palo Alto the city cleared out a bunch of rvs much to the protest of many people there. Now the housing crisis could get even worse with the mortgage reduction, the mortgage Interest Deduction being cut from 1 million to 500,000 add to that state and local property Tax Deductions being capped at 10,000, thats lower than what a lot of people in the bay area are already paying. Experts believe the net result of that could push down the inventories even further and cause people to just want to stay in their homes and push Prices Higher and it means that more and more people could be e resorting to extreme measures like living in rvs in the last to years alone the home less population has risen by 74 definitely a crisis here thank you what a scene on the streets of mountain view, california. We want to get some more we were having a heated discussion about that firstin, firstout rule and on tax policy as well. Lets bring in Dick Kovacevich great to have you with us. Im going to ask you as being somebody from the bay area just because this is such an interesting story. The cost of living was too high. How does this end in your view this cant go on it should end in sacramento, if you want to know the truth. You can go to any National Home builder. They will tell you building a house in california is 30 to 40 more in the United States its that way because of laws and regulations on Home Building in california that make no sense. The best way to reduce the cost of housing is to relax those regulations so people can buy a home at a good price and use fine prices down by 30 or 40 . This is with tax reform because of the numerous potential proposals that could actually hurt home buyers. What are some of the unintended consequences if you put these two stories together, does it worsen whats going on in california it would in california. Again because youre already starting by 30 to 40 . Lets just look at other countries. There is no tax advantage to own a home the levels are at the same really get hurt are the people who can afford it. Most of those people can afford to pay cash or borrow without interest they dont because they get an Interest Rate deduction. You cant have tax reform unless you get rid of some of the incentives to the deductions it has to start somewhere. Should mortgage lenders be nervous right now because if some of these rules are passed, theres a thinking its beginning to be fewer home transactions people may stay in their home longer they may add onto their home do you think it will slow down the real estate volume market . It may for a little bit until it evens out any kind of a change can do that first of all, all other homes will be grandfathered. Youre only talking about new purchases. In many cases, again, with the doubling of the itemized itemization, those people arent going to be affected because they are not taking the deduction now any way. The rich, most of the people that are affected can afford to buy a home maybe not quite a big as one but nobody wrong with that they borrow money because there is a Tax Deduction not because they need to borrow the money. Dick, what do you think about this news about at t and time warner we had a lot of republican commentators who are quite confused about this vertical merger being fought by the doj if al franken were president they would understand this any thoughts on that im confused as well. The precedent is clear that vertical mergers get approved. Theres good reason for that also, what seems i dont understand the logic if the merger goes through and at t does anything thats uncompetitive behavior, you can sue them if consumers are willing to pay a higher price because at t now can increase their phone rates if they want to, right thats not illegal what consumers will do because theres so many options, if they try to raise prices, theyll go somewhere else should we cut off everybodys hand because they might steal . It makes no sense to me. I dont know where this guy is coming from and its certainly against all precedent and im not lawyer but ive never seen a vertical merger thats like this that has been completely denied at this state. Its always great to get your thought os on a variety of subjects protect appreciate it. A sneak preview of all the episodes of the profit appearing tonight on cnbc. The rally is back on on wall street new highs across the board rising Interest Rates. Who cares about the flattening yields curve not this market. We discuss when power lunch continues. Zar one of our investors was in his late 50s right in the heart of the financial crisis, and saw his portfolio drop by double digits. It really scared him out of the markets. His advisor ran the numbers and showed that he wouldnt be able to retire until he was 68. The client realized, i need to get back into the markets i need to get back on track with my plan. The Financial Advisor was able to work with this client. Hes now on track to retire when hes 65. Having someone coach you through it is really the value of a Financial Advisor. Welcome back to power lunch. Rick santelli here todays is no exceptions. Getting close to 178 long ends up a couple and the short ends are powerful with its respect of downwards of pressure and price. 30 minus 5, thats one week. Five trading days down 13 base points five trading points down ten base points. The euro version verses the dollars. A lot of political issues affecting european currency. If you take a step back, it looks as though it is backing away from an important trend line one thing you dont want to back away from, keep the channel on power lunch. You will see four big calls on wall street coming up after this break. What we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. Except that the next morning it all makes sense. To power global ecommerce Fedex Networks are massive, farreaching and, yes. A little magical. Fedex. Com slash dream time for street talk. Ak steel, price light lifted by a buck Contract Prices increases, prices back and price increases are even higher. All right, your second stock is john deer of reversing ing a recent downgrade they have downgraded deer back in august, they fear theyll not materialize. October was very strong so analysts are reverting back. Melissa, boosted year of target price a few weeks ago of 149 to 122. Third stock is urban outfitters, Third Quarter eps. Mkm, four bucks to 20 more encouraged by sales. It is still early and mkm risk factors from anthropology. It is wait and see until it comes to the season. App in your ticker, sun trust says it is quote, loco i love it. The Company Means easy to Program Enterprise software. Kind of, i would not say adam do dumb code it is a disruptive operating loss at a negative cash flow are expected next year i want represents from 40 upside loco. Thank you very much ladies and gentlemen. Coming up on power lunch. What do you put in a 500 milk shake. Well find out the shares of time warner is moving higher. We got all angle in the big coverage in the second hour of power lunch. Dont move mulations up to 8 inc. Dont know if you can hear me, but [monica] whats he doing . [lance] can we get a shot of this cold front, right here. Winter has arrived. Whooo hahaha [vo] progress is an unstoppable force. Brace yourself for the season of audi sales event. Audi will cover your first months lease payment on select models during the season of audi sales event. Welcome back to the second hour of power lunch. I am melissa lee, here is whats on the menu. Megamerger of time warner and at t retail reality, whos seeing foot traffic and whos really hurting right now . The rally that wont put another day or records on wall street. Will 2017 be another blow out year power lunch starts right now. Let the good time roll. Let the good time rolls. Another good day for your money. All major indexes are trotting a new high jacob engineering, and medtronic and it is not all good news. Signet jewelers is downgrading and cam personnpbell is missings reserve new. The biggest antitrust show dawn of the Justice Department the department of justice filing a lawsuit of blocking the proposed merger of at t and time warner randall is sounding defiant in the lawsuit. Ran dell stephenson. I have douvier a lne a lot on my career, i have not done one where so much thats on the basics of facts. The assistant general of the antiJustice Department lesl leslie picker is joining us now hes suddenly a household name hes making wavers with at t and time warner. That type of deal is known as integration. Plus, delrahim says which was quick to use against him in a conference rather than two competitors merging. It will be a pure antitrust. It should not be you know, it is a sheer size of it and the fact that it is media. I think well get a lot of attention. However, i dont see this as a major antitrust problem. What a difference a year make still, delrahim spent seven decades studying antitrust and before that at the Justice Department at the bush administrations. Le leslie. Lets bring in Robert Mcdowel and reappointed under president obama. First question, very basics, if you had to put odds on this deal passing, at t winning the lawsuit. What would they be first of all, i think the odds are really good by the way. The odds are very good and the deal will get done here is why. There are two companies in america that knows more about trust law than anyone else one is exxon and there is a good reason that the government has not opposed a vertical deal in nearly half a century at least successfully. It defies the historical injuju prudence, they are prepared to go to court. Theyll go to court. They were going to court, i have a front row and back row seat for at t and tmobile back in 2011 they were buying as competitors. They have, i think the law is on their side and i read through the complaints it seems kind of thin. There are a lot of omissions thats going to under mind its case here on paragraphs 9 and 10 it is a weak case and get the popcorn. It will be interesting to see. The private sector can overwhelm the government in a trial like this the government has limited resources here and at t will have army of lawyers and economists and engineers and others to provide ample evidence robert, can i jump into apologize here lets talk about richard leon. He ordered the government to free algerians from guantanamo bay. Do you agree with that . Sometimes these tea leaves can be read finely the good news for all of us here is there is precedent. That precedent has to do with vertical mergers so the judge will be looking at that precedent and seeing way back in to when i was a toddler practical practically. The government has not won one of these thats no t tt the case here. You had hundreds of deals aprovera approved actually, you have to wonder if the government is going to try to break up comcast and nbc universal. Filling in the blanks for it we asked that question out loud on the network. Is it weird that on the same day they talk about ending the neutrality because it is too invasive and their ability to price and etcetera and etcetera and theyre also announcing theyre going to help this deal i think it is a coincidence of two separate tracks they are independent ones. Is it odd or two different messages it is, you are absolutely right. It is intriguing and a busy week there is a lot to think about this week. Robert, you know, what sort of extrapolation can we make if this two actually is successful . We think of vertical integration, we think about it too navorrrowly, if amazon deci to buy all the Company Selling off, thats the markets reaction it is telling us thats a vertical integration, it is going to be detrimental in the industry is that anticompetitive as well . Well, applying hypothetical like that. You understand the extrapolation. Just the fact that we are having the segments right now. We are getting all the questions and not just for r the at t sector but any sector of vertical deals there is a new standard or attempt to set a new precedent and developing a new case law to have a completely different look and change the Juris Prudence of america when it comes to these deals. You brought in of the deal that made this company when you read richard leonys, when you approved that deal, he was skeptical about it he didnt think the government had the ability to enforce the remedies i wonder if there is something in this merger that occurred that post facts, government regulated decided they did not like well, you know there is a lot of chatter regarding that. If thats the case, the doj is free to go back to court of any trust violations for any of these deals. The keyword is wood. They can go back in the court against any company. The fact that you are trying to prevent it and verses attacking something after there is a failure. Thats a sucre differenkey diff. Robert mcdowel, thank you for joining us, happy thanksgiving thank you, same to you. What does it mean for the potential winners and losers thoughts now from vanity fair, sarah ellison, great to have you with us. Thank you for having me this lawsuit is filed a t a time thats unprecedented of possible consolidations does that effectively puts the ball on it at least for now. What it does and whats interesting of this discussion is it creates a tremendous amount of uncertainty and people at time warner thought they were gearing up for their Vacation Time they were ready for this deal to be over and taking their tie s f off and tstepping out of the board room and everybody is getting back and realizing they have to run the business again we have this discussion of 24th century fox potentially parts of its sales and there is disagreements inside the company about whether or not they should do that. All of it is centering on the anxiety, you heard Randall Stephenson yesterday, what we have to address whatever dalrahimi decides to do, it is over shadowed by donald trump. What everyone is going to see this as if the deal is successful or the suit is successf successf successful it is going to be seen as retaliatory measure against cnn and the news content that they produced about donald trump. It is dangerous for a lot of different reasons. I dont see a great income co coming out of this either way i get itt on its face because we heard them talk about it. Lets say this deal does not happen cnn does not go away, it still exists it is not like the thing going bluster or anything. The only thing i can see hem hurting her is hes angry, Randall Stephenson it does not seem to achieve the effects of what we think is happening here that the president would want the vertical deals is getting distribution for the kind of content in a more effective way. At t has tremendous amount of consumers because they are carrying around their mobile phones and all sorts of data that time warner does not have it is true that it does not go away but, in order to survive in business and you guys know this better than anybody. Staying stagnant and particularly in an environment like this where you have tremendous Distribution Capabilities thats changing so quickly. Certainly at t will be a position getting cnn in front of more people. Sarah, have you heard of the microsoft Internet Explorer case or am i yjust the old one you maybe the old one i vaguely remember, i am so sorry. Theyre suing microsoft and antitrust and by the end of the lawsuit, it was moot because fire fox and chrome coming out it was the entire argument was an exercising neing theory i wonder if apart of you think this is the same way, they know more about us than our family members. Theyre sitting back and watching this chuckling as they build out their video and entertainment assets you heard Randall Stephenson making this explicit and thats been on the mind of every ceos for the past ten years they have anxious of competing in the new environment with facebook and amazon and google of the world inde indeed, i think what hes arguing and what every single media lobbyists in washington is arguing. Hey, dont look at me, look over there of the much bigger and effective essential with these Tech Companies are, ads server your analogy is that Randall Stephenson making it explicit yesterday. Thank you, sarah ellison. Here is whats coming up. We are breaking down most loved and hated stocks on the streets. Which are set to stumble the ceo, one of the Largest Shopping Center weighs in on retails biggest week and the tax plan that could cost iesrs anvto lot of money all that and much more here ahead on power lunch. Alerts wouldnt you like one from the market when it might be time to buy or sell . With fidelitys realtime analytics, youll get clear, actionable alerts about potential Investment Opportunities in real time. Fidelity. Open an account today. Welcome back to power lunch, larry kudlow is joining us now before the break, we are discussing the Justice Department is suing the at t time warner merger. How is this a probusiness administration well, i dont know, thats a very broad based question. I dont know that it is not. I am not sure if i either understand this because it is not a great business deal at all. I mean, at t wants to buy all of these properties millennials dont even have tv in their house it is internet is clobbering cable and it is going to continue Live Streaming and clobbering we had a lot of republicans on who are plummets. Al franken came out against this deal if al franken is president , it would make sense for the administration to be against this deal. Again, i am not an anti trus expert and not a lawyer. My hunch, take it for what it is worth. Why dont they go out and build broad band in the rural areas of the country and be better off. These cable franchises are going to lose values overtime and they already have does it show, larry, the president kind of a Small Business guy he always had to go up against the marriotts and hyatts of the world. Is he showing a little on the Small Business side and does it mean anything for amazon i have no knowledge that it is a trumps decision. The Justice Department made this decision i dont want to collude on this. To be fair he said he will try to campaign it now, whether or not he hates cnn or worries about too big, i cannot really tell again, i just come back to the key point. I do not think with all respects to at t, i dont think it is a great business decision. All right, lets get your take on the first in, first out policy theyre calling it fifo. If you are going to saell must it anyway, this is dead it is not going to happen josh brown is right, we talked about it yesterday i made some calls to senators and offices and as we suspected, includi including, this is a staff thing of 2. 7 billion. It was a liberal staff thing who probably opposes capital gain to begin with you dont have to agree with that it is going to be gone the white house is furious, it is not going to happen done lets get onto more important things you can have some under lining coming out and sneaking something in thats unbelieverabable when obamacare passed. Speaker nancy pelosi got up and says we do not know whats on the bill well have to pass it. One senator says to me, how in gods name and i dont know all these things going on. 2. 7 billion they would fot gnot get. It is meddling into the market so it is all wrong but it is going to be can. How did they mess up your tax bill oh boy. You know, let me just say this, on the business side which was what we were aiming at two summers go steve moore and i and mnuchin and other people, thats all we wanted and thats what the president really wanted, okay . We came up with this idea, three easy pieces of the skinny version. The tax rate of 15 and now it is 20 okay second, repatriation, third, double the standard deductions and leaving it at that because they dont have this is not really tax reform i am not being critical. I just want things to pass reagan tax reform was to slash, italicize slash the rates and return for what you dont need the deductions the value s of deductions are already gone there is no rate slashing in this the top rate is not moving and if middle rate comes down three percentage point in a sense, i appreciate what you said i think the president should live with that and in a conversation i had a while back. They hope for a grand slam you cannot get a grand slam when you have a small majority. Here is the deal though. I want to take great exception to what i am hearing or reading. This thing is going to go through. The game of six is not going to host everybody this is going through the business side is going to be pretty much intact and except senator ron johnson is pushing very hard for better treatments of llc i am an llc, he wants the burden to come down to under 30 and 17, there is a rule that you can deduct 17. 4 from your income. That thats the tax rate you pay. He wants to increase that substantially which will bring effective rates for pastors down substantially. That rate is 25 and not 35 good for ron johnson, in fact, surprisingly, people are backing him and backing the bill and even as what they referred to as the two ladies, Susan Collins and lisa keselowski. I think theyre in good shape if you want to know the truth just make it simple. It is going to work and it is going to happen in 2018. You will see growth and people will start pulling investment triggers and money are going to flow in and well live happily ever after i hope the fed better not screw it up just because of growth happy thanksgiving, larry. Thank you, all of you who can see it pop and drop, coming up of the atlanta dome. Yesterday of this thanksgiving dinner today, well see you the booze of 500 milk shake. We always show you t mheost interesting food because we are power lunch. We are back after this looking from a fresh perspective can make all the difference. It can provide what we call an unlock a realization that often reveals a better path forward. At wells fargo, its our expertise in finding this kind of insight that has lead us to become one of the largest investment and Wealth Management firms in the country. Discover how we can help find your unlock. And the wolf huffed like you do sometimes, grandpa . Well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe. 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What we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. Except that the next morning it all makes sense. To power global ecommerce Fedex Networks are massive, farreaching and, yes. A little magical. Fedex. Com slash dream retail. Under pressure like never before. And its connected technology thats moving companies forward fast. Ecommerce. Real time inventory. Virtual changing rooms. Thats why retailers rely on comcast business to deliver consistent Network Speed across multiple locations. Every corporate office, warehouse and store near or far covered. Leaving every competitor, threat and challenge outmaneuvered. Comcast business outmaneuver. Flexshares etfs are built around the Way Investors think. With objectives like building capital for the future, managing Portfolio Risk and liquidity and generating income. Thats real etf innovation. Flexshares. Built by investors, for investors. Before investing consider the Funds Investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. Go to flexshares. Com for a prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully. Hi everybody, i am sue herrera. Pbs says, it has terminated its relationship of charlie rose in light of Sexual Misconduct allegations. The network is cancelling his distribution of his earlier program. Rose has apologized in the statement that says not all of the accusations of harassments are true new engravings have been added to the marine core memorial in washington it is part of a refurbishmente that includes some accomplishments. A fire that broke out in the southeast part of the city, thick black smokes can be seen for miles. Thats one lucky turkey drumstick is joining a select list of turkeys to be pardoned by the president ahead of thanksgiving President Trump is joined by the first lady and his son, barron the drumstick and the wishbone he was a little shy. You are up to date, thats the news update at this hour michelle outraged that the fact that both turkeys got pardoned remember tater and tot got pardoned by president obama. Once you get pardon as a turkey, your life is great oh stop thats the worst joke. Hes here all week. Oh no, hes not [ laughter ] thank you, sue. I think you are welcome i am not sure. Lets get you caught up on where the markets stand. New records for the dow and s p 500 and as well as nasdaq. Tech and healthcare leading sectors right now at the top of the text sector. Csra and papal holding and med tronic and mckesson and perrigo. So who could be set to pop or for a stumble. Dom chu is joining us with more. Papal is one of them, we take a look at some of the stocks that have a lot of momentum behind them. We carved out a few of them to give you an idea a variety of Industries Represented here in our wall, well talk about the good news first. The upside ones, take a look at these, pulte group is up 30 of average price of 200 days average price. Michael kors is up 38 papal record highs of 41 . Nvidia, those shares are 45 of its trend as well. It is not all great news check out some of these names. Pg e, 20 below and Alaska Airlines foot locker 24 below and chipotle, 27 . It is an incomplete list but we have a lot more of that , michelle, on cnbc. Com. It is up on our website now back to you as we head to 2018, what can we expect. The one is expecting correction and the other is not expecting the market to move between the battle of value and growth is decided. Lets bring in jim harden and our michael. Gent gentlem gentlemen, good to have you here jim, yield curve flatten and it is getting narrow yoer and nobody seems to worry about it are you worry . Well, i dont see the elements of a fair market, i certainly think 2018 could bring us a correction or at least a more challenging market, i think there is a number of things that are stacking up here one of the big catalyst has been chronic positive surprises on the economy. Economy have done a lot better than people thought. We found out where local synchronizing expansion. Well find out and we are headed of the Third Quarter of real gdp growth it is really feeling good, the problem is next year if it stays good, it is not a surprise i wont be as positive for stocks fch stocks i think we are going the see a little Interest Rate inflation pressure and we are training liquidity a little bit and the result is a bigger struggle for stocks overall michael, what do you think right now, there is a real battle for leadership in this market and in early september. Right around the time of trump extended the olive branch around schumer and pelosi what we see is on the one side that folks believing better growths and higher rates of in sfla inflations and values tend to do well and small caps you see pick up in rates. On the other side of the battle, we feel of the low trend growth rate and low rate and inflation environment. Until the battle gets determined, i think well move a side way pattern for 2018, what i am expecting is modest growth and low rates and inflation and environment continues the take hold and the growth of the momentum parts of the market continue to rally Technology Healthcare an financials where should investors go at this point now, their issues of Angela Merkels election and what could the impact be there . I still like europe and International Markets overall and the emerging markets. I love the heavy tilt out away of the United States theyll face omnivosome of the s we are facing here in 2018 in the terms of Hawkish Central Bank they wont go up as much, i dont think, i think well be leading that chart and well have greater inflation evidence next year and abroad and inflation tends to benefit International Economy more than the United States. I would not move away. I would start to take advantage of the sentiment, the positive sentiment towards growth right now. The negative sentiment towards value and one great trait is go from over weight to under Weight Technology everyone loves it and everything is coming up roses and reports are fantastic. I give a little bit of that away g i go to a sector that has Good Property and energy and higher dividend yield to rougher market and an inflation play. I think it is moving away from growth and towards value you would say you loo i cike technology, what would you say to jim it is characterized by the low trend growth and it is important to get to the part of the market to generate and solid free cash flows and good earnings for shared growth we are seeing it broadly in technology the numbers we had for this quarter were amazing, both on the top line and earnings for share. Even if we look their contributions to the overall earnings for technology, it is not nearly as concentrated of the telecom bubble days. We still have some ways to go. Gentlemen, jim paulsen. Meek cal eichael erone thanku today we bring you the 500 milk shake it is lined with chocolate, retailed about 90 a pound next, we add four scoops of english lavender, topped with bananas and cognac, which costs 3200 a bottle and edible gold flak flakes, bring it, you can take it home. If we are all in la together, we should split one i dont want mind with lavender if we are in la together, i will be running off to my hometown [ laughter ] thats a complementary on the company. Anyway. Will this hop dliday shopping season be the gift that keeps on giving retailers volatile markets. Something we all think about as we head into retirement. Its why Brighthouse Financial is committed to help protect what youve earned and ensure it lasts. Introducing shield annuities, a line of products that allow you to take advantage of growth opportunities. While maintaining a level of protection in down markets. So you can head into retirement with confidence. Talk with your advisor about shield annuities from Brighthouse Financial established by metlife. This 33 days until christmas. The average retail stock is down 7 and whats a boom year for every other type of reinvest r t reinvestment it is interesting connor, it is interesting to see you again, congratulations on your new baby congratulations on that you know it is interesting about your business is that you are being viewed in some way as a proxy for Retail Stocks are down 20 . You toll us thatd us thats a w to look at your stock. Whats the message that you have for investors thats selling your stock right now our founder says says it it matter when it will go out it is repurposing and redevelop and when you get the space back it is amazing to think that when we went top less, it is lift than what were today. Our Shopping Centers are getting closer to all time highs it is 97. 9 . It is unbelieverabable whats wrong with the stock i think retail is painted with the broad brush we continue to focus on what we can control. Clearly retail is out of favor the department service, you do have exposure to stores that is disrupted by the life of amazon thats the bottom line when it come to retail space that there is too many stoesres and you go kohls and Bed Bath Beyond when luke at the top 20 markets of the United States, there is a tremendous amount of retail in the u. S. But, when we talk to our retailers like ross, tj max and burlington who are expanding, they say there is not a lot of good retail availability right now. Thats a big difference. And sprawl is going on and populations are decreasing outside those rings. Thats where all the inventories are saved. What about you guys specifically right now we are focusing on improving the Balance Sheet. We have to position ourselves again to weather to storm. We want to push it up to a the best Balance Sheet in business whos the buyer i am assuming that you will sell property that is are not as good in terms o f performance assets. Who buys in the industry there is a lot of private buyers that are interested in what is going on in terms of the retail environment thats where we see a lot of demands from the private side. Pricing is getting of a big connect. Private pricing for Good Real Estate is the strongest it will ever been. I was going to ask you stuff that you sell, you are going to sell that at a profit or loss . We were one of the first to go public. When we develop these properties, we had a lot of embedded gains there is so we continue with a lot of buying power out there. How much and thats got to be expensive. How much does that matter . Do your tenants notice an uptake in traffic when you spend money to rehab the front en end i hate the term, too. Outdoor shopping experience, enthusiasm so we love redevelopment. We think it is the best development today. And it really puts a lot of action and activity back into the shopping center. Thats where we see a huge calling card for pimco going forward. When you have it in great locations, you can redevelop and add density to those parking lots and create new lines of revenue. We are doing it not just with retail but adding mixed use components and we are sitting under the under utilized part of the state. Conner, thank you. Congratulations on your new babe happy thanksgiving. Happy thanksgiving. Cyto kinetics, lwel talk about the ceo, of the companys kate snow, robert blum stay tuned robert blum. Stay tuned companysc, robert bl. Stay tuned e, robert blum stay tuned o, robert blum stay tuned , robert blum stay tuned companys ceo , robert blum. Stay tuned shares of cytokinetics 34ru7 plummeting after the drug to treat a. L. S. Failed in a latestage trial we know a. L. S. Has been a tough area for drug development, a fatal disease with a huge need for better therapies 15,000 people in the u. S. Are estimated to have a. L. S. There are only two drugs approved by the fda to treat it. Neither can reverse its court. Lets bring in robert blum, cytokinetics ceo thanks for joining us on a tough day for your company. Thank you, good afternoon, meg. This is a providing sad day for a. L. S. Community our latestage study did not meet its goal but even as hard as it is for our company, its even more sad for those patients suffering from a. L. S. We understand that, you know, as a result of these trial results, youre suspending this program. You seem to have some optimism in your nextgeneration drug can you tell us why . Yes we do have optimism coming out of this study. We did see in this study pharmacologic activity that does read on what will be now the next generation investigative treatment that were bringing forward in a midstage clinical trial. We expect that study will read out next year. The expectation is a readout in the First Quarter of 2018 for 107 which is this other drug to treat a. L. S. A lot of investors, though, today, seem to be abandoning the hope of the pipeline as well as the two other preclinical drugs youre supposed to designate in by the end of the year, 2017 so can you tell investors why they should have optimism about 107, about the readout in the First Quarter of 2018 . When this is such a profound disappointment in phase three. Yes, so we do scientific experiments in clinical studies in order to learn how best to inform what we might choose to do next. This study teaches us that there is for this mechanism affects that are meaningful for patients with a. L. S a. L. S. Is a dreadful disease, as you may know patients ultimately become prisoners in their own body. And they die of muscle weakness and muscle strength and respiratory failure. What we have in our muscle biologyfocused pipeline are compounds discovered by our scientists that amplify muscle force and power and the time to muscle fatigue the next generation skeletal muscle activator is in midstage studies, four studies, in fact, one that should read out in early 2018 the other three by the end of 2018 and we believe that this latestage study teaches us a lot that we can apply in learnings to those studies. Robert, its meg. Clearly disappointment today for the street i want to ask you about you also have a Heart Failure drug in partnership with amgen, Cantor Fitzgerald is saying isnt even in their model. Do you feel the street is giving you credit for your pipeline at all right now . I believe the state is looking at now the pipeline and will begin to understand the value in these other drug candidates they werent closer to patients as was this one that we have suspended but our Heart Failure program as we said for many years may be our most valuable program. Thats in latestage study with amgen as our partner and has great promise for what is a disease that is the number one reason why patients in the United States are hospitalized all right robert, our thanks to you. We appreciate your time. Robert blum, the ceo of cytokinetics and thanks to meg tirrell. Thank you. Apple up 40 this year up nearly 11 in the past month. If you own it, should you take out the pun and run or buy more . Larry mcdonald, mick bing ke bi. Larry, its a great year for apple, would you be a buyer or sell seller a year ago the street hit a 12 month price target of 130 and the stock is up around 190, to the risk reward is very, very unattractive just 36 buys on the street only seven holds no sells apples the type of stock you want to wait for a dislocation, every couple years, one comes about and buy into fear, sell into complacency thats what you want to do today. All right there you go mike, what do you think, apple, buy, sell, hold . Apple is on an epic run right now, up 50 this year. Apple has a very distinct pattern and overlaps with their iphone rollouts. The market is expecting a strong iphone 8, an iphone x especially i think theyre going to get it. Earnings are once again growing in 17 and 18 i think theyll stall out in fiscal year 19s 19. At that point you get a pull bak in the stock the pullbacks happen every third year were definitely due for that. Great company, tough time to step into the stock today. All right there you go tough time, not exactly the bullish view there guys, appreciate it. Mike and larry, thank you. Go to tradingnation. Cnbc. Com t see more check please is next. Now the latest from tradingnation. Cnbc. Com and word from our sponsor. In a losing trade, avoid letting your emotions get the best of you. Too often, traders want to add to a position. Experienced traders will say your first loss is a bt esloss in other words, take a small loss and move on before it becomes too big. What we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. Except that the next morning it all makes sense. To power global ecommerce Fedex Networks are massive, farreaching and, yes. A little magical. Fedex. Com slash dream that was just aight for me. Yo, checi mean,t dawg. You got the walk. You got the stance. But i wasnt really feeling it. You know what, im not buying this. You gotta come a little harder dawg. You gotta figure it out. Eh, i dont know. Shaky on the walk, carriage was off. Randy jackson judging a dog show. I dont know dawg. Surprising. Whats not surprising . How much money lisa saved by switching to geico. Wow performance of the night. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. Right in the heart of the was in his financial crisis, and saw his portfolio drop by double digits. It really scared him out of the markets. His advisor ran the numbers and showed that he wouldnt be able to retire until he was 68. 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The fcc unveiled its proposal for new Net Neutrality rules and the fallout for Companies Like comcast, verizon, netflix, google theyre all massive. The details coming up shortly here. We also have stocks hitting alltime highs today is the rally getting overextended five stock