Thank you very much, stephen. It's a pleasure to be with you again. It's great to talk to you. It's two months now since venezuelans voted in the presidential election. Just tell me what has happened to you since that vote. Well, our victory by a landslide was something the regime didn't expect. As well as the fact that in less than 2a hours, we were able to collect, digitalise and put on a robust web page over 83% of the tally sheets, the official tally sheets that actually demonstrated our victory. It was a 70 over 30 victory, but if it had been a freer election, believe me, we would have won at least by 90 to 10. So this was a huge defeat for the regime. Maduro is naked in front of the whole world and his followers. And so his decision was to get surrounded and entrenched around the top brass of the military and in fact, unleash terror. This has reached to thousands of venezuelans that have been detained, and everybody that was directly involved in organising the election is right now either in hiding, in prison or in exile. Nonetheless, the force of the organised movement that we were able to awaken and to build is there and moving forward. So maduro is today totally isolated from within, within the country and more and more isolated in the international stage. You talk about maduro�*s isolation, but i do want to ask you about your own personal situation. I introduced you as talking to me from venezuela. I believe it's true to say that right now you're essentially having to, to live in hiding. Is that correct? well, that is correct. The regime and maduro has said that i'm a terrorist and that the justice is looking for me. And many people close to me are either injail, under asylum or in hiding because they want to get me. You say that the electronic evidence is clear that you won the election. And when i say you, you obviously were the de facto leader of the opposition movement. You were represented as presidential candidate by edmundo gonzalez. You say that he, mr gonzalez, got 70% of the vote. But mr maduro simply doesn't accept that. He says that the electronic data has been hacked. And he went to the supreme court, venezuela's highest court, asked them to ratify his victory, and they have done so. So in sort of constitutional terms, where do you go from here? well, let's, let's understand what we are facing. The whole world knows that the supreme court is totally controlled by the regime, and not one single democracy has recognised maduro. Even his previous allies, uh, on, and in the region like colombia, brazil, even chile, where president boric has been a president from the left, has been clear, saying that edmundo gonzalez is the winner and should be recognised and the world should advance, supporting a transition to democracy in venezuela. So this is out of the question. Even maduro and everybody know that, that they lost. The point here is, is maduro willing to sit down and negotiate? and i believe that point will be reached when the cost of staying in power by force outweighs the cost of leaving power. Ijust want, if i may, i'm sorry to interrupt. I just wonder whether you are in danger of underestimating the staying power of mr maduro. I mean, in a sense, we have been here several times before in venezuela. Uh, you know, going back to 2018 and the last election, the opposition was adamant that it was rigged. And in 2019, you put all of your power behind an alternative president, juan guaido, and told the world to accept him and acknowledge him as the legitimate leader of venezuela. These initiatives of yours and the effort to get people onto the streets of venezuela to back you, in the past, they have failed. Why do you think you won't fail this time? i think this is a totally different moment. Stephen, you know very well dynamics in venezuela. We've never had the strength that we have today. We've never had our country united as we do today. The regime has never been a called as it is right now — not only a dictator, a criminal that has committed crimes against humanity. Just last week in geneva, the task, the fact—finding mission and the un high commissionerfor human rights stated with support of more than 60 countries. And on the other hand, the tensions within the system, the criminal system, are growing as we speak. Maduro has lost total legitimacy. It had never happened before. But don't you, don't you, don't, don't you need. . . . Sorry. Sorry, maria, but don't you need the streets, you know, as part of your demand for change? and it has to be said that in the weeks since the election and your claim that you won it, and his insistence that he won it, there were protests, mass protests, but they have, by and large, died away. Repression has reasserted itself. As you've said, many hundreds, thousands have been arrested. And it looks as though the people of venezuela appear resigned, frankly, to more maduro. Well, that's what maduro wants you to think, and that's not the truth. Two things. First of all, we've turned venezuela into a world cost. We have a fourth of our population living abroad, and venezuelans in our diaspora are in the streets and are protesting. And that's — those are venezuelans as well. Inside, we are evolving to a new form of protest. First of all, we don't have to demonstrate we are a majority. That's — everybody knows that. And the 20th ofjuly certified it. Now it's a moment in which we have to move in a different dynamic to protect our people. And you won't see one huge protest with 50,000 people. You will see 1,000 protests with 50 people, all coordinated, all decentralised. And this is the phase we're moving into right now. It's something the regime was not expecting, and it is the way we can put pressure in the critical points we need to, to put force in order to move ahead. But isn't. . . Every day, every day that goes by, maduro is weaker. Every day that goes by, we are stronger. But one key element you do not appear to have, that is cracks and division within the armed forces and the security apparatus around nicolas maduro. To quote one us political scientist, john polga—hecimovich, who studies venezuela closely, he says, maduro has, quote, systematically coup—proofed his government, surrounding himself with loyalists, tying his survival to that of other senior leaders and a cadre of high—ranking military officers. As long as that continues to be the case, he has all of the power, the repressive power on his side. Let me tell you something. We wouldn't have been able to collect our tally sheets if it wasn't for the support of the military that were displayed all over the country in every single voting station. The military in middle and lower ranks in venezuela are suffering the same as the rest of the population. And i've heard similar analysis, saying that it was impossible to win the election or to prove the result, the results. And here we are. So, uh, if there's someone that doesn't underestimate the regime we're facing, it's us. We've been denouncing its criminal nature for years, and we understand what they are capable of doing. And nonetheless, as i say, as i tell you, we are increasing, increasing, increasing the cost of staying in power. And we will reach a point in which that cost overweighs, the cost of leaving power. And that will be the day where maduro will sit down and negotiate and understand that's his best option. In that, in that ratcheting up of pressure that you want to see, how big a blow was the flight, the escape of edmundo gonzalez from venezuela to spain, his decision, in essence, to flee? and of course, it should be said that in the process of leaving the country, he signed a document where he appeared to acknowledge the victory of nicolas maduro. Well, it was certainly a grotesque operation by the regime in which our president—elect was blackmailed and pressed to an extreme that he thought his life was actually in danger, even though he was in a european embassy in caracas. So he decided that he was more useful for our cause. . . . . Free outside venezuela than in a local prison. And i do believe at the end, this operation of blackmailing the president back—played on the regime, and at the end, when some people understood that it was a huge mistake the regime did, because now edmundo gonzalez is abroad. He was recognised as president—elect by the european. . Free outside venezuela than in a local prison. And i do believe at the end, this operation of blackmailing the president back—played on the regime, and at the end, when some people understood that it was a huge mistake the regime did, because now edmundo gonzalez is abroad. He was recognised as president—elect by the european parliament last week — and several parliaments around the world — and he's accompanying the fight of the venezuelans abroad, while i'll do it inside. So i think. . . But, i mean, he did. . . Crosstalk but, maria, he did. . . And he says he did it under duress, but he did sign a piece of paper acknowledging maduro�*s victory. So what? no, it'sjust. . . It'sjust, i want to ask you this. I understand that he has since said that, you know, it was a form of blackmail. But i just want you to. . . And it's a difficult question to answer, but i want you to answer this. If you. . . And we don't know what's going to happen to you, but if in the coming days, weeks, months, you are faced with a similar situation where you are presented with a choice by the venezuelan regime, the state, that either you sign a document or you face imprisonment, or you leave the country, what will you do? look, stephen, as you said, it's not a fair question because i will notjudge anyone who is in those circumstances. When you feel that the life of your family, your daughter, your grandchildren is at stake, i cannotjudge anyone who does that. In fact, many, in venezuela, political prisoners have been liberated — liberated — first have to sign horrible things and record videos that are humiliating. And they have done it and i will notjudge them. So we are going one day at a time. It was a huge mistake for the regime. The world understands that this is a regime that has no limit, no scruples. After. . . It was discovered, this grotesque operation, more support was received. As we've seen this whole week at the general assembly of the united nations, venezuela has been a top issue. And this is a moment we need to move ahead with pressure from within, understanding this new reality, growing every day that goes by, and certainly making the world understand why venezuela is the most — the single most — important conflict in the western hemisphere. It has to do with maduro, who is the main ally of putin, of iran, syria, of terrorist groups. It is a source of destabilisation for the whole region. And it is a pressure for migration that could happen in the months or year, even a year, in which millions of venezuelans could leave our country, turning venezuela — who is already the biggest migration crisis in the world — into something unbearable. Iwant to. . . I want to pick up on that and the desperate conditions many venezuelans are living in injust a moment. But i have to just ask you one more question about you and leadership and your decision—making. You've known arrest before. You are currently being investigated by the regime. You must have thought about this. If you are faced with a choice, will you stay — even if it means losing your liberty — rather than leave the country? i have already faced that decision several times and i'm here in venezuela right now still. Let's talk, then, about the international context. Your message seems to be that the internal processes in venezuela toward achieving change need to work in concert with international efforts. Are you satisfied in the last two months with what you've seen and heard from — let's start with — the united states and the europeans when it comes to their stand on what happened in the election and what they now say must happen in venezuela? i'd say i'm grateful for what you're doing, and i'm not satisfied because i think much more should be done and should be done fast. As i say, what's at stake in venezuela goes much further than our borders. It has to do with the stability of the whole region. And there should be a. . . Venezuela should be a top priority of action, immediate action. Those that are committing crimes against humanity should be held accountable. It would give a direct message to others that today support the regime. And that should be done not only by the united states, the european union, uk, canada and other countries. Secondly, edmundo gonzalez should be recognised as president—elect immediately, because he is. Everybody know that he won the election by a landslide and our constitution is decisive. If you get more votes, you are the president—elect, and he should be sworn as the constitutional president of venezuela on january 10th. . . But if i may interject, he hasn't been officially recognised as president—elect in washington or in european capitals. . . No. Not yet. That's what i mean. That's what i'm saying. . . Crosstalk if you look at where the diplomatic effort is going at the moment, and i've been trying to make my best guess as to what's going on, brazil and colombia — two governments which are very active in trying to defuse the crisis in venezuela — they seem to basically be selling a message where their prime option seems to be offering maduro a chance to rerun the election. If there were to be a new election, would you accept that? and would you then want your opposition movement to take part in it? well, that's not a realistic proposal, because what you're saying is that, why don't we go to a free election — a �*free�* election — again? and if that's the case, then we will win 90—10 or even higher. And maduro knows that. So that's not a realistic proposal. Setting aside the fact that you would be ignoring popular will and our sovereignty, expressed on the 28th ofjuly, in which we participated under the rules of the tyranny, i think these countries want to maintain some kind of. . . Communication with maduro and trying to propose options to start a negotiation. And that's fine. . . What about. . . Crosstalk if i may, what about a phased transition? there's been some talk of perhaps you nominating some opposition figures who might take part in a new government with some members of the current socialist government, that there would not be a dramatic shift onjanuary10th, inauguration day for the new president, but there would be some phased transition. Can you see that? no, i don't. I don't see in that manner. I do think we need to make it a transition in which we have a government of unity, but it has to respect the will of the people. Any formula that is imposed from outside that disregards what the venezuelan people have decided, it's not sustainable. I mean, this is all artificial. We, yes, are facing a criminal system. Yes, it's very dangerous right now. Yes, so far, they haven't had enough incentives to sit down and negotiate. But things are changing fast. We never had proof, never before our victory. We did it this time. Maduro�*s totally delegitimized. And every time he further repress our people, he's more and more isolated. So we are moving in the right direction. All right. . . And the point here is that we need more action. And just to finish your previous question, i do think the international community has to do much more. One of the other actions that have to be put in place is you have to cut the illicit income and flows he gets from narco trafficking, from gold smuggling and trafficking, even human trafficking. That has to be stopped. And europe has many ways in order to do that that ought to be put in place very fast. If maduro is inaugurated onjanuary10th, much against your wishes, do you want to see a much tougher sanctions regime imposed on venezuela? i mean, donald trump talked about putting maximum pressure during his term in office on venezuela. Joe biden then somewhat relaxed some of the sanctions because he felt that would encourage maduro to take part in a truly democratic election. Well, we've had the election. You've explained that you believe it was entirely rigged and that your opposition movement won it. So now, if maduro persists in power, do you want sanctions to be massively intensified? we want the pressure to be put in place now, not in the 10th of january, because we have time. We have time to achieve our goal, which is to have the will of the people respected that day and edmundo gonzalez be sworn constitutionally in venezuela. So this is the moment to act. And we have a comprehensive and robust strategy, and it's working, stephen. They. . . We've talked several times. They told us it was impossible to reach this point. And here we are, stronger than ever, so our strategy is working. We need to move ahead. . . But he — that is, maduro — is not budging. If he makes it through to january 10th, if he is inaugurated again, what is going to happen inside your country? well, what is already happening. The number of venezuelans leaving, crossing, fleeing — crossing our borders and fleeing — is huge. Just to mention the case with brazil, it used to be 50 people daily before the election. Now, we are seeing peaks of over 1,000 people a day. This is a disaster. This has to be stopped. This could be millions of venezuelans fleeing in the next month, many reaching the south border of the us. So, look, this is the moment to act, not to prolong this agony. As i say, we've never had such a huge popular support and never we had such a commitment from the international community and understanding what a priority for the region and for western democracies it is to solve this conflict. And never before maduro has had incentives — as he has right now — to sit down and negotiate. This is a totally different moment. We have to keep moving ahead. And we will prevail. Maria corina machado, i thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. As he has right now — to sit down and negotiate. This is a totally different moment. We have to keep moving ahead. And we will prevail. Maria corina machado, i thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. Thank you. Thank you, stephen. Hello there. The month of september can often be quite a turbulent one. The transition from summer into autumn and the final full week of september has been just that. Look at thursday's rain. A lot of heavy rain drifting out of northern england and northern ireland. This darker blue here, a line of torrential thundery showers with some hail in there as well. Already still with days to spare, woburn in bedfordshire has had its wettest september on record, but it's also had its wettest month ever on record, and we've got an amber weather warning which will remain in force for the next few hours. And so we are just going to continue to add to those rainfall totals. So a line of heavy rain will move its way south out of the midlands, down into southern england and south—east england. Behind it, the wind direction swinging around to a northerly. A few scattered showers with elevation could turn a little wintry as well, as it turns colder from the north, so this weather front slowly eases away during the day this friday and then behind it, that colder air starts to tuck in. A real noticeable difference to the feel of our weather story. So yes, it will be a wet start across east anglia, south—east england. For a time that rain clearing perhaps away from the kent coast by lunchtime and then quite an improvement, actually. Some sunshine coming through. A few scattered showers, but a brisk northerly wind making it feel quite cool out there. Eight to 1a degrees below par for this stage of the month. Now, as we move out of friday into the weekend, we start with this ridge of high pressure. A quiet start to the weekend, but there's more wet weather to come as we move into sunday. But with that high pressure, well, that means we could have quite a chilly start first thing on saturday morning. Temperatures and sheltered glens of scotland and northeast england down below freezing, so a frost is not out of the question here. We will continue to see the wind direction swinging around to more of a north westerly that will drive in showers on saturday across exposed west coast, and one or two running down through the cheshire gap as well. Top temperatures on sunday at around 15 degrees, the best of the sunshine in sheltered southern and eastern areas. Then, as we move out of saturday into sunday, here's that rain. And it means an unsettled start into next week slowly improving. Live from london, this is bbc news. 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