the regional governor vadym filashkin said the situation there continued to deteriorate. greek police are searching for the bbc presenter and author michael mosley, who's gone missing on the island of symi. doctor mosley was last seen early on wednesday afternoon, when he went for a walk alone. he presents a range of programmes on health that often see him experiment on himself. the first crewed flight of the boeing starliner spacecraft has developed two small leaks of helium, but is due to dock with the international space station today as planned. nasa said the affected helium valves were shut off, and the spacecraft remains stable. a very warm welcome to the programme. on the 6th ofjune, 1944, aid the chaos of battle and the shouts, and screams of those soldiers ascending the beaches of normandy, was the sound of bagpipes. —— amid the chaos. as there was this morning, to mark the beginning of the 80th commemoration of dday. in 1944, the piper was bill millin, from glasgow — just 21 years old, dressed in his farther kilt, and armed only with a dagger. he was part of the first commando brigade that landed on sword beach. in the years after the war, the german snipers said they had spared bill because they thought he had gone mad. and so the legend was born. never before or since have so many troops from so many nations landed by sea to liberate an occupied country. the significance of that moment, to our shared history, was reflected in the roll call of world leaders who attended in france today. with the exception of course, of the russian president vladimir putin. president macron, said his country would always remember the bravery and sacrifice of those who fought. translation: they were afraid, but they knew that they were - fighting a just war. and that every step they took brought them closer to restoring freedom to the world. earlier in the day, at the new british war memorial near gold beach, king charles paid his tribute. our ability to learn from their stories first—hand diminishes, but our obligation to remember them, what they stood for, and what they achieved for us all can never diminish. d—day is now ancient history — but the stories survive through the accounts of the dwindling band of heroes who were there or involved. and with war once again returning to europe, their service, and the sacrifice of their fallen comrades, should serve as an important lesson to the rest of us, who enjoyed the freedom they won. it is all because of gummy�*s quick thinking, his desire to help those around him, that i can stand here before you today. i wish i could tell him i have never taken his sacrifice for granted, and will always remember him and ourfriends. so gummy, thank you, my old friend. let's bring in our panel to reflect on a very special day in normandy. an uncertain future looms, war is backin an uncertain future looms, war is back in europe, the presidential candidate in the united states questions nato and the postwar institutions that were set up to prevent another world war — so what is the anniversary mean in that context? i is the anniversary mean in that context? ~ ., ., ., ., context? i think for a lot of the --eole context? i think for a lot of the peeple who — context? i think for a lot of the people who were _ context? i think for a lot of the people who were there, - context? i think for a lot of the . people who were there, especially some of the politicians, it was something they had to do. the veterans and the young people who were there, it would've had more impact for them. on days like today, i think about my granddad who, 80 years ago, was in the channel and he didn't land on the beach on d—day, he waited in the channel for about three days because he was in one of the rear waves that came up the beaches later on. it meant he sat there and listened, and watched while the carnage was going on and all those people were dying. i remember him telling me about how he was on a liberty boat which was not very seaworthy, and a flat bottom, rocking all over the place, and remember him telling me about how everyone was seasick, and he sat there for three days with vomit washing around his ankles. then he went ashore and drove his gun and went ashore and drove his gun and went to hamburg, and didn't come back until 1947, i946, went to hamburg, and didn't come back until 1947, 1946, by which his daughter was two years old and he had never seen her — and that was my mum. if he was still here, he would be 112. he would tell us that he would tell us not to forget. i think a lot of the things we will hear about throughout the rest of the show, an awful lot of the people have, and the reason they've forgotten is because most of the people that were there like my granddad are long gone. and the ones who were there today, by definition, were the youngest and furthest away from danger, or they wouldn't be here today, or in as much danger as they were in. so i think listening to those left is really important. joe biden spoke today to pay tribute to the veterans he met, but tomorrow he will deliver a separate address inspired heavily by a speech that ronald reagan gave in 1984. the gipper, as he was known, spoke at legendary "pointe du hoc" in 1944 — the location of a series of german bunkers and machine gun posts the americans assaulted. when these troops swept across the french countryside and into the forests of belgium and luxembourg, they came not to take, but to return what had been wrongly seized. when our forces marched into germany, they came not to prey on a brave and defeated people, but to nurture the seeds of democracy among those who yearn to be free again. and we salute them today. joe biden�*s staff concede that they have studied the reagan trip closely, and are looking to similarly capture the attention of a distracted, disillusioned public, to remind them of how much is still at stake. to surrender to bullies, to bow down to dictators is simply unthinkable. applause were we to do that, it means we'd be forgetting what happened here, on these hallowed beaches. make no mistake, we will not bow down. we will not forget. martin, you can't take the politics out of this, and a lot of people mightjust reflect out of this, and a lot of people might just reflect for a out of this, and a lot of people mightjust reflect for a second on the time thatjoe biden spent with the time thatjoe biden spent with the vitamins today, and the reports we've had of the way donald trump approached ceremonies and commemorations like this when he was president —— veterans today. i commemorations like this when he was president -- veterans today.— president -- veterans today. i think what ou president -- veterans today. i think what you can _ president -- veterans today. i think what you can see — president -- veterans today. i think what you can see today _ president -- veterans today. i think what you can see today is _ president -- veterans today. i think what you can see today is drawing l what you can see today is drawing parallels — what you can see today is drawing parallels with what's happening with ukraine _ parallels with what's happening with ukraine and the russian invasion lhera _ ukraine and the russian invasion there. what struck me was what some of the _ there. what struck me was what some of the veterans who spoke with him and spoke — of the veterans who spoke with him and spoke with the other leaders said - _ and spoke with the other leaders said - i_ and spoke with the other leaders said — ithought and spoke with the other leaders said — i thought there was one quote today— said — i thought there was one quote today which— said — i thought there was one quote today which stood out for me, from 99-year-old — today which stood out for me, from 99—year—old veteran joe bynes, today which stood out for me, from 99—year—old veteranjoe bynes, who talked _ 99—year—old veteranjoe bynes, who talked about when he set off their at the _ talked about when he set off their at the edge of 19, he didn't have any idea — at the edge of 19, he didn't have any idea about war and killing. and you can _ any idea about war and killing. and you can see — any idea about war and killing. and you can see from all those veterans 80 years _ you can see from all those veterans 80 years on — you can see from all those veterans 80 years on the message they have for people _ 80 years on the message they have for people today. obviously there are clear — for people today. obviously there are clear parallels with what's happening in other conflicts, but i think_ happening in other conflicts, but i think as _ happening in other conflicts, but i think as well, the sentiment and the words _ think as well, the sentiment and the words that— think as well, the sentiment and the words that he and others spoke i'm sure ms _ sure resonate words that he and others spoke i'm sure resonate with many of those on the front _ sure resonate with many of those on the front line of ukraine and elsewhere. the front line of ukraine and elsewhere-— the front line of ukraine and elsewhere. �* , ., ., ., ., elsewhere. there's a good quote here from the minority _ elsewhere. there's a good quote here from the minority leader _ elsewhere. there's a good quote here from the minority leader in _ elsewhere. there's a good quote here from the minority leader in the - from the minority leader in the senate, mitch mcconnell, that i lifted from the new york times this morning. "it should not take another catastrophic attack like pearl harbour to wake today's isolationists from the delusion that the world's... with global power comes global interest and global responsibilities." we know that mitch mcconnell is one of the converted, but he's speaking to an increasing proportion of the senate who don't see things that way. that's absolutely the case, nor would — that's absolutely the case, nor would i— that's absolutely the case, nor would i expect— that's absolutely the case, nor would i expect otherwise - that's absolutely the case, nor would i expect otherwise the l would i expect otherwise the politicians _ would i expect otherwise the politicians to _ would i expect otherwise the politicians to use _ would i expect otherwise the politicians to use an - would i expect otherwise the politicians to use an event i would i expect otherwise the i politicians to use an event like this to — politicians to use an event like this to try— politicians to use an event like this to try and _ politicians to use an event like this to try and address - politicians to use an event like this to try and address the - politicians to use an event like . this to try and address the policy problems— this to try and address the policy problems they _ this to try and address the policy problems they face _ this to try and address the policy problems they face right - this to try and address the policy problems they face right now. i. problems they face right now. i suppose — problems they face right now. i suppose the _ problems they face right now. i suppose the irony— problems they face right now. i suppose the irony from - problems they face right now. i suppose the irony from the - suppose the irony from the perspective _ suppose the irony from the perspective of— suppose the irony from the perspective of an _ suppose the irony from thel perspective of an academic, suppose the irony from the . perspective of an academic, i suppose the irony from the - perspective of an academic, i think it was— perspective of an academic, i think it was mark— perspective of an academic, i think it was mark twain _ perspective of an academic, i think it was mark twain who _ perspective of an academic, i think it was mark twain who said - perspective of an academic, i think it was mark twain who said that. it was mark twain who said that history— it was mark twain who said that history doesn't— it was mark twain who said that history doesn't tend _ it was mark twain who said that history doesn't tend to - it was mark twain who said that history doesn't tend to repeat l history doesn't tend to repeat itself, — history doesn't tend to repeat itself, but _ history doesn't tend to repeat itself, but it— history doesn't tend to repeat itself, but it often _ history doesn't tend to repeat itself, but it often rhymes. i history doesn't tend to repeat. itself, but it often rhymes. every era and _ itself, but it often rhymes. every era and every— itself, but it often rhymes. every era and every war— itself, but it often rhymes. every era and every war is _ itself, but it often rhymes. every era and every war is a _ itself, but it often rhymes. every era and every war is a little - itself, but it often rhymes. every era and every war is a little bit. era and every war is a little bit different _ era and every war is a little bit different it _ era and every war is a little bit different. it was _ era and every war is a little bit different. it was interesting i different. it was interesting listening _ different. it was interesting listening to _ different. it was interesting listening tojoe _ different. it was interesting listening tojoe biden- different. it was interesting listening tojoe biden talk. different. it was interesting - listening to joe biden talk about democracies _ listening to joe biden talk about democracies versus— listening to joe biden talk aboutj democracies versus autocracies. listening to joe biden talk about . democracies versus autocracies. a crucial— democracies versus autocracies. a crucial ally — democracies versus autocracies. a crucial ally in — democracies versus autocracies. a crucial ally in the _ democracies versus autocracies. a crucial ally in the second - democracies versus autocracies. a crucial ally in the second world . democracies versus autocracies. a i crucial ally in the second world war was stolle _ crucial ally in the second world war was stolle and's _ crucial ally in the second world war was stolle and's russia, _ crucial ally in the second world war was stolle and's russia, so - crucial ally in the second world war was stolle and's russia, so it- crucial ally in the second world war was stolle and's russia, so it was . was stolle and's russia, so it was slightly— was stolle and's russia, so it was slightly different _ was stolle and's russia, so it was slightly different than _ was stolle and's russia, so it was slightly different than is - was stolle and's russia, so it was slightly different than is being - slightly different than is being pretrade~ _ slightly different than is being pretrade~ but— slightly different than is being pretrade. but i— slightly different than is being pretrade. but i think- slightly different than is being pretrade. but i think it- slightly different than is being. pretrade. but i think it absolutely makes _ pretrade. but i think it absolutely makes sense _ pretrade. but i think it absolutely makes sense from _ pretrade. but i think it absolutely makes sense from the _ pretrade. but i think it absolutelyl makes sense from the perspective pretrade. but i think it absolutely- makes sense from the perspective of joe biden— makes sense from the perspective of joe biden to — makes sense from the perspective of joe biden to use _ makes sense from the perspective of joe biden to use this _ makes sense from the perspective of joe biden to use this and _ makes sense from the perspective of joe biden to use this and the - makes sense from the perspective of joe biden to use this and the fact - joe biden to use this and the fact that it'll— joe biden to use this and the fact that it'll be — joe biden to use this and the fact that it'll be the _ joe biden to use this and the fact that it'll be the head _ joe biden to use this and the fact that it'll be the head of— joe biden to use this and the fact that it'll be the head of all- joe biden to use this and the fact that it'll be the head of all the i that it'll be the head of all the news — that it'll be the head of all the news bulletins _ that it'll be the head of all the news bulletins across - that it'll be the head of all the news bulletins across the - that it'll be the head of all the news bulletins across the us i that it'll be the head of all the i news bulletins across the us to that it'll be the head of all the - news bulletins across the us to get the message — news bulletins across the us to get the message across _ news bulletins across the us to get the message across to _ news bulletins across the us to get the message across to the - news bulletins across the us to getl the message across to the american people _ the message across to the american people that — the message across to the american people that what _ the message across to the american people that what happens _ the message across to the american people that what happens in - the message across to the american people that what happens in europe| people that what happens in europe affects _ people that what happens in europe affects us _ people that what happens in europe affects us and — people that what happens in europe affects us and we _ people that what happens in europe affects us and we need _ people that what happens in europe affects us and we need to _ people that what happens in europe affects us and we need to play- people that what happens in europe affects us and we need to play our. affects us and we need to play our part _ affects us and we need to play our part in— affects us and we need to play our part. in europe, _ affects us and we need to play our part. in europe, the _ affects us and we need to play our part. in europe, the big— affects us and we need to play our part. in europe, the big difference between _ part. in europe, the big difference between now— part. in europe, the big difference between now and _ part. in europe, the big difference between now and then _ part. in europe, the big difference between now and then is - between now and then is partly because — between now and then is partly because of the _ between now and then is partly because of the expense - between now and then is partly because of the expense of- between now and then is partly because of the expense of the i between now and then is partly- because of the expense of the second world _ because of the expense of the second world war— because of the expense of the second world war but — because of the expense of the second world war but also _ because of the expense of the second world war but also things _ because of the expense of the second world war but also things like - world war but also things like nuclear— world war but also things like nuclear weapons, _ world war but also things like nuclear weapons, we've - world war but also things like nuclear weapons, we've had l world war but also things like i nuclear weapons, we've had 80 world war but also things like - nuclear weapons, we've had 80 years without _ nuclear weapons, we've had 80 years without conflict _ nuclear weapons, we've had 80 years without conflict in _ nuclear weapons, we've had 80 years without conflict in western _ nuclear weapons, we've had 80 years without conflict in western europe, i without conflict in western europe, and i_ without conflict in western europe, and i think— without conflict in western europe, and i think rousing _ without conflict in western europe, and i think rousing western - without conflict in western europe, i and i think rousing western european publics— and i think rousing western european publics from — and i think rousing western european publics from the _ and i think rousing western european publics from the sense _ and i think rousing western european publics from the sense of _ and i think rousing western european publics from the sense of slight - and i think rousing western european publics from the sense of slight geo i publics from the sense of slight geo political— publics from the sense of slight geo political indifference _ publics from the sense of slight geo political indifference because - publics from the sense of slight geo political indifference because of- political indifference because of that has — political indifference because of that has become _ political indifference because of that has become more - political indifference because of. that has become more important political indifference because of- that has become more important send ever~ _ that has become more important send ever~ -- _ that has become more important send ever~ -- more — that has become more important send ever. —— more important— that has become more important send ever. —— more important than- that has become more important send ever. —— more important than ever. i ever. —— more important than ever. the one _ ever. —— more important than ever. the one thing — ever. —— more important than ever. the one thing that _ ever. —— more important than ever. the one thing that confuses - ever. —— more important than ever. the one thing that confuses me - ever. —— more important than ever. the one thing that confuses me is, i the one thing that confuses me is, joe biden was born two years before the invasion, donald trump was born a year and a half afterwards, they were raised in the same era, the post—world war ii generation. yet they've taken completely different approaches to that — why? they've taken completely different approaches to that - why?- they've taken completely different approaches to that - why? people do, don't they? — approaches to that - why? people do, don't they? and _ approaches to that - why? people do, don't they? and i _ approaches to that - why? people do, don't they? and i think _ approaches to that - why? people do, don't they? and i think to _ approaches to that - why? people do, don't they? and i think to be - don't they? and i think to be honest, you can say they were born and pretty much the same time, and neither of them would have much of a functioning memory of war as they grew up. joe biden might�*ve been two but you don't know what's going on at the planet at that time. so our statesmen now, even the oldest statesmen now, even the oldest states people that we have now, which joe states people that we have now, whichjoe biden and donald trump are —— are giggly in the top list of have, because of nuclear weapons, they've not got a functioning personal got memory of what this involved ash arguably in the top list. we are in the history books and the words the veterans have left of, that's all we have left. any statement of any ideology says, it's all hypothetical, it's down to what they believe. are the interventionist or not, more isolationist? it comes down as well to the political context of the day, and to some extent for some of them, but will get them the votes, and was the most important issue right now? are they an incumbent like biden trying to sway the opposition to do something they've been struggling with, which is to fund the war in ukraine? orare they, like with, which is to fund the war in ukraine? or are they, like trump, with, which is to fund the war in ukraine? orare they, like trump, an insurgent who is trying to come in and take power and wants to offer some kind of alternative that would be attractive to his base? they are not arguing on the basis that people like our grandparents had this argument — they haven't seen that solution and they'd haven't seen that alternative. they have theoretical arguments about theoretical arguments about theoretical things, and we are all in the situation where that theory may become reality — in fact, it's already a reality for people in ukraine and bosnia. it's something we will have to learn to deal with and stop talking about as an ideology and come together. butt ideology and come together. but i think, martin. — ideology and come together. but i think, martin, we _ ideology and come together. but i think, martin, we very _ ideology and come together. but i think, martin, we very often see wars as far away and not something that affects western societies, and i think a little bit of that was reflected in the wall streetjournal today. they said, "in ignoring the rise of hitler far away, the price was ultimately paid in pearl harbour and the beaches of normandy. we have and the beaches of normandy. we have an opportunity to stop pit and prudent and deliver a clear message," but that requires one the size of the one in 1944. message,�* but that requires one the size of the one in 1944.— size of the one in 1944. russia has made advances _ size of the one in 1944. russia has made advances in _ size of the one in 1944. russia has made advances in ukraine - size of the one in 1944. russia hasj made advances in ukraine because size of the one in 1944. russia has i made advances in ukraine because of the delay— made advances in ukraine because of the delay in— made advances in ukraine because of the delay in getting weaponry to the front line _ the delay in getting weaponry to the front line because of what was happening in america, and trying to -et happening in america, and trying to get the _ happening in america, and trying to get the hill— happening in america, and trying to get the bill through the house. sol think— get the bill through the house. sol think that _ get the bill through the house. sol think that you can see how they put across the — think that you can see how they put across the message that in action only leads — across the message that in action only leads to further problems, and that the _ only leads to further problems, and that the same happened in the early days of— that the same happened in the early days of how hitler was able to march across _ days of how hitler was able to march across europe. i think that's something that we will hear more about, _ something that we will hear more about, what happened on d—day with the younger population would look like ancient history. but putting across — like ancient history. but putting across that message of what can happen— across that message of what can happen and how quickly a continent can he _ happen and how quickly a continent can be invaded, it should come across — can be invaded, it should come across. ~ ~ �* can be invaded, it should come across. . . �* ., ~ ., across. well said. we'll talk about defence after _ across. well said. we'll talk about defence after the _ across. well said. we'll talk about defence after the break. _ across. well said. we'll talk about defence after the break. plenty i defence after the break. plenty to talk about in the context of what's happening today in normandy. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. from the retreat at dunkirk to the assault on the normandy beaches, the uk and its allies had to build a war machine that was capable of defeating nazi germany. and there are echoes of that today. yes there are improvements, spending as a proportion of output is increasing, but there is a long way to go. especially here — the number of british army troops has just fallen below 73,000 for the first time since the napoleonic era. troop numbers have been cut by 27,500 since 2010. when labour left office, the army had more than 100,000 soldiers. in the 12 months to april this year, the number of army personnel who completed phase one and two training, and are ready for active service, fell by 2,300, taking the total figure below that 73,000 target. by comparison, the french army have more than 110,000 troops. at the commemorations in portsmouth today the outgoing army chief general sir patrick sanders, said the uk is not ready for a third world war. in the member in mind of everything we'vejust in the member in mind of everything we've just discussed, and the conservatives have said they will increase spending to 2.5% by 2030, why is labour calling for a spending review when it's obvious we need to go far and beyond what's currently on the table? let go far and beyond what's currently on the table?— go far and beyond what's currently on the table? , . _ ,._ on the table? let me start by saying the conservatives _ on the table? let me start by saying the conservatives have _ on the table? let me start by saying the conservatives have said - on the table? let me start by saying the conservatives have said they'll. the conservatives have said they'll raise _ the conservatives have said they'll raise it _ the conservatives have said they'll raise it to — the conservatives have said they'll raise it to 25% _ the conservatives have said they'll raise it to 2.5% by _ the conservatives have said they'll raise it to 2.5% by 2030, - the conservatives have said they'll raise it to 2.5% by 2030, but - the conservatives have said they'lll raise it to 2.5% by 2030, but those sums— raise it to 2.5% by 2030, but those sums don't— raise it to 2.5% by 2030, but those sums don't add _ raise it to 2.5% by 2030, but those sums don't add up. _ raise it to 2.5% by 2030, but those sums don't add up. at— raise it to 2.5% by 2030, but those sums don't add up. at the - sums don't add up. at the moment they claim — sums don't add up. at the moment they claim civil— sums don't add up. at the moment they claim civil service _ they claim civil service efficiencies _ they claim civil service efficiencies and - they claim civil service efficiencies and cuts . they claim civil service i efficiencies and cuts will they claim civil service - efficiencies and cuts will allow they claim civil service _ efficiencies and cuts will allow for that spending. _ efficiencies and cuts will allow for that spending, and _ efficiencies and cuts will allow for that spending, and that _ efficiencies and cuts will allow for that spending, and thatjust- efficiencies and cuts will allow for . that spending, and thatjust doesn't really— that spending, and thatjust doesn't really add _ that spending, and thatjust doesn't really add up — that spending, and thatjust doesn't really add up. labour— that spending, and thatjust doesn't really add up. labour have - that spending, and thatjust doesn't really add up. labour have said - that spending, and thatjust doesn't really add up. labour have said two| really add up. labour have said two things— really add up. labour have said two things - _ really add up. labour have said two things - they— really add up. labour have said two things - they said _ really add up. labour have said two things — they said we _ really add up. labour have said two things — they said we will— really add up. labour have said two things — they said we will have - really add up. labour have said two things — they said we will have a i things — they said we will have a security review, _ things — they said we will have a security review, which _ things — they said we will have a security review, which makes i things — they said we will have a i security review, which makes sense because _ security review, which makes sense because the — security review, which makes sense because the world _ security review, which makes sense because the world has _ security review, which makes sense because the world has changed i security review, which makes sensel because the world has changed quite a lot in— because the world has changed quite a lot in the _ because the world has changed quite a lot in the last _ because the world has changed quite a lot in the last few— because the world has changed quite a lot in the last few years. _ because the world has changed quite a lot in the last few years. they've i a lot in the last few years. they've also said _ a lot in the last few years. they've also said that _ a lot in the last few years. they've also said that they— a lot in the last few years. they've also said that they will— also said that they will raise defence _ also said that they will raise defence spending _ also said that they will raise defence spending to - also said that they will raise defence spending to 2.5%, i also said that they will raise i defence spending to 2.5%, but also said that they will raise - defence spending to 2.5%, but there is a slightly— defence spending to 2.5%, but there is a slightly liigger_ defence spending to 2.5%, but there is a slightly bigger than _ defence spending to 2.5%, but there is a slightly bigger than the - is a slightly bigger than the conservatives, _ is a slightly bigger than the conservatives, when- is a slightly bigger than the conservatives, when the i is a slightly bigger than the - conservatives, when the economics are right _ conservatives, when the economics are right 0n— conservatives, when the economics are right on one _ conservatives, when the economics are right. on one hand, _ conservatives, when the economics are right. on one hand, it's- are right. on one hand, it's reassuring _ are right. on one hand, it's reassuring that _ are right. on one hand, it's reassuring that both - are right. on one hand, it's| reassuring that both parties are right. on one hand, it's- reassuring that both parties are talking — reassuring that both parties are talking in— reassuring that both parties are talking in these _ reassuring that both parties are talking in these terms. - reassuring that both parties are talking in these terms. the i reassuring that both parties are talking in these terms. the sad| talking in these terms. the sad thing. — talking in these terms. the sad thing. which _ talking in these terms. the sad thing, which is _ talking in these terms. the sad thing, which is indicative - talking in these terms. the sad thing, which is indicative of- thing, which is indicative of the campaign — thing, which is indicative of the campaign is _ thing, which is indicative of the campaign is a _ thing, which is indicative of the campaign is a hole _ thing, which is indicative of the campaign is a hole in— thing, which is indicative of the campaign is a hole in my- thing, which is indicative of the i campaign is a hole in my opinion, is they've _ campaign is a hole in my opinion, is they've been — campaign is a hole in my opinion, is they've been very— campaign is a hole in my opinion, is they've been very vague about i campaign is a hole in my opinion, is they've been very vague about what they've been very vague about what they will _ they've been very vague about what they will do — they've been very vague about what they will do. some _ they've been very vague about what they will do. some sort _ they've been very vague about what they will do. some sort of— they've been very vague about what i they will do. some sort of amorphous pledge _ they will do. some sort of amorphous pledge that _ they will do. some sort of amorphous pledge that when _ they will do. some sort of amorphous pledge that when it's _ they will do. some sort of amorphous pledge that when it's fine _ they will do. some sort of amorphous pledge that when it's fine to - they will do. some sort of amorphous pledge that when it's fine to do i they will do. some sort of amorphous pledge that when it's fine to do so, i pledge that when it's fine to do so, we will— pledge that when it's fine to do so, we will do — pledge that when it's fine to do so, we will do this really— pledge that when it's fine to do so, we will do this really doesn't - pledge that when it's fine to do so, we will do this really doesn't seem | we will do this really doesn't seem to have _ we will do this really doesn't seem to have the — we will do this really doesn't seem to have the urgency— we will do this really doesn't seem to have the urgency we _ we will do this really doesn't seem to have the urgency we should bel to have the urgency we should be having _ to have the urgency we should be having given _ to have the urgency we should be having given the _ to have the urgency we should be having given the threats - to have the urgency we should be having given the threats we face. having given the threats we face today _ having given the threats we face toda . ,, ., ., ,., having given the threats we face toda . ,, ., ., _, ., having given the threats we face toda . ,, ., ., ., ., today. should labour commit to a bi aer today. should labour commit to a bigger troop _ today. should labour commit to a bigger troop numbers? _ today. should labour commit to a bigger troop numbers? there - today. should labour commit to a bigger troop numbers? there are| bigger troop numbers? there are 16,000 british soldiers currently deployed across ten countries in europe — that's the largest deployment the british army has made within nato since the 1980s. so i went back and how to look, and are spending on the armed forces in the 1980s was over 5% of gdp. the spending on the armed forces in the 1980s was over 596 of gdp.— 1980s was over 596 of gdp. the last time there is _ 1980s was over 596 of gdp. the last time there is a _ 1980s was over 596 of gdp. the last time there is a labour— 1980s was over 596 of gdp. the last time there is a labour government | time there is a labour government and power, iwas time there is a labour government and power, i was a french porter, there was that long ago. i can remember than the labour government being accused of hollowing out the armed forces because not enough was being spent and they didn't recruit enough. every every year since, the same thing has been said. at the end of this government we had our own defence secretary saying the government is not spending enough and hollowing things out. of course they are — part of that is because of austerity and lack of spending, and no wish to re—spend from the public, there'd be no point to it as far as many public, there'd be no point to it as faras many are public, there'd be no point to it as far as many are concerned. but also, serving in the armed forces is not been what we've seen commemorated in d—day today, part of national service that helps humanity in general. it's become something that just happens in certain military towns and cities that still have bases and functioning military presences, and where there literally is almost no otherjump. places like plymouth, south wales east, the northeast and northwest. places where going into the armed forces is the only way to get some skills and a job, and sometimes some place to live when you get kicked out of home. once the armed forces becomes an unattractive working class occupation for people who have no hope of doing something else — and i'm not saying that about the armed forces, that's the way it seen in whitehall particularly — then it doesn't become the kind of thing that people will generally think, "you know what, i'm desperate to join the royal navy, i think i'll get loads of skills and see the world." you do still have people like that but it's not seen as attractive. like that but it's not seen as attractive-— like that but it's not seen as attractive. �* ., , �* . ., ., attractive. but doesn't it come from to down attractive. but doesn't it come from top down and _ attractive. but doesn't it come from top down and don't _ attractive. but doesn't it come from top down and don't you _ attractive. but doesn't it come from top down and don't you have - attractive. but doesn't it come from top down and don't you have to - attractive. but doesn't it come from i top down and don't you have to match what you're facing? there's a good report from steve rosenberg in moscow who is looking at the russian economy — it's grown by 3.2% this year, according to the imf. caveats aside, that's more than any other advanced economy in the world. so in mind of what susie has just said and the way we approach the military, maybe we should be looking at defence manufacturing and the way we train troops as perhaps a way to grow our economy, in the same way that the russians are going there economy? that the russians are going there econom ? ., , that the russians are going there econom ? . , , , ., economy? certainly the russian economy? certainly the russian economy has — economy? certainly the russian economy has grown, _ economy? certainly the russian economy has grown, and - economy? certainly the russian economy has grown, and a - economy? certainly the russian economy has grown, and a lot l economy? certainly the russian | economy has grown, and a lot of economy? certainly the russian i economy has grown, and a lot of that may be _ economy has grown, and a lot of that may be due _ economy has grown, and a lot of that may be due to how it's turning to the west— may be due to how it's turning to the west and building economic relations— the west and building economic relations with the east. i think the problem _ relations with the east. i think the problem they're having in terms of growing _ problem they're having in terms of growing the army as a a lot of young people just _ growing the army as a a lot of young people just don't want to join for various— people just don't want to join for various reasons. the pay isn't the most _ various reasons. the pay isn't the most attractive, we've seen a lot of reports _ most attractive, we've seen a lot of reports on — most attractive, we've seen a lot of reports on the quality of mod housing _ reports on the quality of mod housing. i think if we are looking at what's — housing. i think if we are looking at what's happening today, 80 years on from _ at what's happening today, 80 years on from d—day, and we've got major conflict _ on from d—day, and we've got major conflict on _ on from d—day, and we've got major conflict on the continent, again, one which— conflict on the continent, again, one which shows no signs of ending and that— one which shows no signs of ending and that there are lots of warning signs— and that there are lots of warning signs from — and that there are lots of warning signs from nato about how it can expand, — signs from nato about how it can expand, there clearly is a very strong — expand, there clearly is a very strong argument for building the army— strong argument for building the army up — strong argument for building the army up. and yes, russia may have a strong _ army up. and yes, russia may have a strong economy at the minute, but we don't seem _ strong economy at the minute, but we don't seem to be spending too much in terms _ don't seem to be spending too much in terms of— don't seem to be spending too much in terms of infrastructure entirely in terms of infrastructure entirely in russia — in terms of infrastructure entirely in russia. lots of things are being kicked _ in russia. lots of things are being kicked down the road because money is being _ kicked down the road because money is being eaten up by the war chest. is it unpalatable to talk about growing the economy through building arms, putting young men into the armed forces if you can find those who want to be in the armed forces? else a couple things. firstly, vladimir— else a couple things. firstly, vladimir putin— else a couple things. firstly, vladimir putin is— else a couple things. firstly, vladimir putin is a _ else a couple things. firstly, vladimir putin is a dictator. else a couple things. firstly, i vladimir putin is a dictator who else a couple things. firstly, - vladimir putin is a dictator who can do what _ vladimir putin is a dictator who can do what he — vladimir putin is a dictator who can do what he wants _ vladimir putin is a dictator who can do what he wants and _ vladimir putin is a dictator who can do what he wants and impose i vladimir putin is a dictator who can do what he wants and impose any i do what he wants and impose any suffering — do what he wants and impose any suffering on — do what he wants and impose any suffering on the _ do what he wants and impose any suffering on the russian - do what he wants and impose any suffering on the russian people . do what he wants and impose any . suffering on the russian people and -et suffering on the russian people and get away— suffering on the russian people and get away with — suffering on the russian people and get away with it _ suffering on the russian people and get away with it absent _ suffering on the russian people and get away with it absent any - get away with it absent any opposition— get away with it absent any opposition to _ get away with it absent any opposition to it. _ get away with it absent any opposition to it. this - get away with it absent any opposition to it. this is- get away with it absent any opposition to it. this is not| get away with it absent any. opposition to it. this is not a recent— opposition to it. this is not a recent phenomenon, - opposition to it. this is not a recent phenomenon, or- opposition to it. this is not a. recent phenomenon, or ghibli opposition to it. this is not a i recent phenomenon, or ghibli for opposition to it. this is not a - recent phenomenon, or ghibli for the last several— recent phenomenon, or ghibli for the last several decades, _ recent phenomenon, or ghibli for the last several decades, we've - recent phenomenon, or ghibli for the last several decades, we've let i recent phenomenon, or ghibli for the last several decades, we've let our. last several decades, we've let our defences— last several decades, we've let our defences down _ last several decades, we've let our defences down because _ last several decades, we've let our defences down because we - last several decades, we've let our defences down because we relied i last several decades, we've let our. defences down because we relied on the united _ defences down because we relied on the united states. _ defences down because we relied on the united states. this— defences down because we relied on the united states. this is— defences down because we relied on the united states. this is true - the united states. this is true across— the united states. this is true across western _ the united states. this is true across western europe, - the united states. this is true across western europe, we'vej the united states. this is true i across western europe, we've been free riders_ across western europe, we've been free riders on— across western europe, we've been free riders on american _ across western europe, we've been free riders on american power. - across western europe, we've been free riders on american power. the statistics_ free riders on american power. the statistics are — free riders on american power. the statistics are absolutely _ free riders on american power. the statistics are absolutely clear- statistics are absolutely clear about — statistics are absolutely clear about this _ statistics are absolutely clear about this because _ statistics are absolutely clear about this because we - statistics are absolutely clear about this because we didn't| statistics are absolutely clear- about this because we didn't spend very much— about this because we didn't spend very much on— about this because we didn't spend very much on defence, _ about this because we didn't spend very much on defence, we - about this because we didn't spend very much on defence, we could i about this because we didn't spend - very much on defence, we could spend more _ very much on defence, we could spend more on _ very much on defence, we could spend more on health — very much on defence, we could spend more on health. so _ very much on defence, we could spend more on health. so if— very much on defence, we could spend more on health. so if we _ very much on defence, we could spend more on health. so if we are _ more on health. so if we are really going _ more on health. so if we are really going to _ more on health. so if we are really going to spend _ more on health. so if we are really going to spend more _ more on health. so if we are really going to spend more on— more on health. so if we are really going to spend more on defence, i more on health. so if we are really. going to spend more on defence, and it does— going to spend more on defence, and it does seem — going to spend more on defence, and it does seem to— going to spend more on defence, and it does seem to be _ going to spend more on defence, and it does seem to be the _ going to spend more on defence, and it does seem to be the world - going to spend more on defence, and it does seem to be the world is - it does seem to be the world is dangerous— it does seem to be the world is dangerous enough— it does seem to be the world is dangerous enough to _ it does seem to be the world is dangerous enough to justify . it does seem to be the world is dangerous enough to justify us| dangerous enough to justify us doing so, we _ dangerous enough to justify us doing so, we witi— dangerous enough to justify us doing so, we will have _ dangerous enough to justify us doing so, we will have to _ dangerous enough to justify us doing so, we will have to have _ dangerous enough to justify us doing so, we will have to have some - so, we will have to have some difficult conversations - so, we will have to have some difficult conversations on - so, we will have to have some . difficult conversations on whether we should — difficult conversations on whether we should pay— difficult conversations on whether we should pay more _ difficult conversations on whether we should pay more tax, - difficult conversations on whether we should pay more tax, face - difficult conversations on whether i we should pay more tax, face more cuts, _ we should pay more tax, face more cuts, and _ we should pay more tax, face more cuts, and with— we should pay more tax, face more cuts, and with the _ we should pay more tax, face more cuts, and with the applications - we should pay more tax, face more cuts, and with the applications for. cuts, and with the applications for that witt— cuts, and with the applications for that will be — cuts, and with the applications for that will be for— cuts, and with the applications for that will be for our— cuts, and with the applications for that will be for our public- that will be for our public services because _ that will be for our public services because there _ that will be for our public services because there have _ that will be for our public services because there have to _ that will be for our public services because there have to be - because there have to be trade—offs here _ because there have to be trade—offs here simply— because there have to be trade—offs here. simply saying _ because there have to be trade—offs here. simply saying 2.5% _ because there have to be trade—offs here. simply saying 2.5% without i here. simply saying 2.5% without sbettihg — here. simply saying 2.5% without sbettihg out — here. simply saying 2.5% without sbettihg out the _ here. simply saying 2.5% without spelling out the choices... - here. simply saying 2.5% without spelling out the choices... bul- spelling out the choices... but ou're spelling out the choices... but you're an _ spelling out the choices... you're an economist. spelling out the choices... but you're an economist. i'm - spelling out the choices... but you're an economist. i'm not. | spelling out the choices... but - you're an economist. i'm not. you're re you're an economist. i'm not. you're pretty smart — you're an economist. i'm not. you're pretty smart when — you're an economist. i'm not. you're pretty smart when it _ you're an economist. i'm not. you're pretty smart when it comes - you're an economist. i'm not. you're pretty smart when it comes to - pretty smart when it comes to economics, but a lot of these defence companies depend on longer lead times, so you need contracts. what i'm saying is, if you change the thinking and say, "these are some of the most sophisticated high—technology companies that we have, we will put our force behind them to grow the economy, we will better fund our military and them to grow the economy, we will betterfund our military and our army," therefore you get people who want to be in it, is that perhaps the way we should be approaching it? i question whether it's what the people want, or do they really want money spending on the nhs? i people want, or do they really want money spending on the nhs? i suspect levels of support _ money spending on the nhs? i suspect levels of support for _ money spending on the nhs? i suspect levels of support for ukraine _ money spending on the nhs? i suspect levels of support for ukraine would - levels of support for ukraine would come _ levels of support for ukraine would come down — levels of support for ukraine would come down a — levels of support for ukraine would come down a little _ levels of support for ukraine would come down a little bit _ levels of support for ukraine would come down a little bit if— levels of support for ukraine would come down a little bit if the - levels of support for ukraine would come down a little bit if the people were told _ come down a little bit if the people were told that _ come down a little bit if the people were told that the _ come down a little bit if the people were told that the price _ come down a little bit if the people were told that the price for- come down a little bit if the people were told that the price for that - come down a little bit if the people were told that the price for that isi were told that the price for that is more _ were told that the price for that is more wartime _ were told that the price for that is more wartime footing _ were told that the price for that is more wartime footing for- were told that the price for that is more wartime footing for our- more wartime footing for our economy, _ more wartime footing for our economy, to _ more wartime footing for our economy. to be _ more wartime footing for our economy, to be perfectly- more wartime footing for our- economy, to be perfectly honest. but i do economy, to be perfectly honest. but i do think— economy, to be perfectly honest. but i do think one — economy, to be perfectly honest. but i do think one area _ economy, to be perfectly honest. but i do think one area where _ economy, to be perfectly honest. but i do think one area where you - economy, to be perfectly honest. but i do think one area where you have i economy, to be perfectly honest. but i do think one area where you have a| i do think one area where you have a point _ i do think one area where you have a point is _ i do think one area where you have a point is our— i do think one area where you have a point is our defence _ i do think one area where you have a point is our defence procurement - point is our defence procurement system _ point is our defence procurement system is — point is our defence procurement system is a — point is our defence procurement system is a waste. _ point is our defence procurement system is a waste. we _ point is our defence procurement system is a waste. we have - point is our defence procurement system is a waste. we have so. point is our defence procurement. system is a waste. we have so much inefficiency _ system is a waste. we have so much inefficiency that _ system is a waste. we have so much inefficiency that we _ system is a waste. we have so much inefficiency that we could _ system is a waste. we have so much inefficiency that we could do - inefficiency that we could do that better _ inefficiency that we could do that better and — inefficiency that we could do that better and be _ inefficiency that we could do that better and be getting _ inefficiency that we could do that better and be getting more - inefficiency that we could do that better and be getting more for. inefficiency that we could do that. better and be getting more for what we already— better and be getting more for what we already spend- _ better and be getting more for what we already spend— so _ better and be getting more for what we already spend— so if— better and be getting more for what we already spend— so if we - better and be getting more for what we already spend— so if we spent i we already spend— so if we spent even _ we already spend— so if we spent even more. — we already spend— so if we spent even more. our— we already spend— so if we spent even more, our troops _ we already spend— so if we spent even more, our troops could - we already spend— so if we spent even more, our troops could be i we already spend— so if we spent - even more, our troops could be even better— even more, our troops could be even better equipped _ even more, our troops could be even better equipped. but _ even more, our troops could be even better equipped. but certainly - even more, our troops could be even better equipped. but certainly the i better equipped. but certainly the combination— better equipped. but certainly the combination of— better equipped. but certainly the combination of the deterioration l combination of the deterioration in terms _ combination of the deterioration in terms of— combination of the deterioration in terms of hardware _ combination of the deterioration in terms of hardware and _ combination of the deterioration inj terms of hardware and recruitment means— terms of hardware and recruitment means this — terms of hardware and recruitment means this is — terms of hardware and recruitment means this is a _ terms of hardware and recruitment means this is a crunch _ terms of hardware and recruitment means this is a crunch point - terms of hardware and recruitment means this is a crunch point where| means this is a crunch point where we have _ means this is a crunch point where we have to — means this is a crunch point where we have to take _ means this is a crunch point where we have to take some _ means this is a crunch point where we have to take some difficult - we have to take some difficult decisions _ we have to take some difficult decisions and _ we have to take some difficult decisions and start _ we have to take some difficult decisions and start turning - we have to take some difficult| decisions and start turning our situation — decisions and start turning our situation around. _ decisions and start turning our situation around.— decisions and start turning our situation around. lots more to talk about in respect _ situation around. lots more to talk about in respect with _ situation around. lots more to talk about in respect with the _ situation around. lots more to talk about in respect with the election i about in respect with the election and the european parliamentary elections coming up, and which security is part of the debate. we'll take a short break and be right back after this. hello, thanks forjoining me. it's been a day of sunshine and showers, with the most frequent showers across scotland today. how about tomorrow? more of the same. a keen north—westerly breeze, sunny spells and, once again, scattered showers. and in fact, over the last few days, the weather has been generally coming in from the northern climes. if you look at the satellite picture, you can see the motion of the cloud all streaming in from the north—west, iceland and the norwegian sea. so, more of the same — through tonight as well. if anything, these showers will become more frequent across the north—west of scotland through the small hours of friday morning. but elsewhere, generally clear and really quite chilly. in towns and cities, temperatures early on friday morning will be around 7 degrees, but outside of town, in the countryside, it could be as low as 3—4. so, definitely a nip in the air first thing on friday. but a lot of sunshine from the word go, i think, across england and wales. not the case in northern ireland and western scotland. a weather front moving through, bringing a period of rain, a couple of hours of some steady rain, but that should eventually clear after the rush hour to sunshine and showers. could end up being quite cloudy around the lake district, northern england, through much of yorkshire, quite thick cloud. but come the afternoon, i think for most of us, it's a case of sunny spells. frequent showers in scotland, though. less frequent in the south. and the temperatures struggling — ii in stornoway, no higher than around 17 expected in cardiff. here's the weather map for saturday. the low pressure still with us. and on its western edge, the wind continues to stream in from the northern climes. it's quite chilly air — in fact, cold enough for a little bit of wintriness across the scottish mountains, and gusty winds around these northern and western coasts. showers again will be most frequent in scotland on saturday, but northern ireland, wales and england should have a generally dry and mostly sunny day, just scattered fairweather cumulus clouds. temperatures again about 12 in aberdeen, struggling here, 15 in belfast, no higher than around 17 in birmingham. is it going to be warming up over the next few days? no, it's not. the air will keep on streaming in from the north, so temperatures will remain below the average for the time of the year, but it will be often dry with fleeting showers. that's it for me. bye—bye. hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. rishi sunak and sir keir starmer hit pause on election events to mark d—day in france amid stark polling data. most of the leaders were in normandy today. the prime minister and sir keir starmer were there, along withjohn swinney, first minister of scotland, and nigel farage, who perhaps had an extra spring in his step today. because last night, on the eve of those commemorations, a new yougov poll put reform on i7%, the conservatives on i9%, labour still way out in front on a0%. if these numbers play out four weeks today, then the tories would be facing a rout on a scale not seen for the past century. but would it translate into seats for reform? this is what nigel farage said when he announced his decision to run. we're going to get a huge number of votes. i think there's every chance we'll get more votes than the conservative party. i genuinely do, and you can all hold me to that in a few weeks' time, but i genuinely believe we can get more votes in this election than the conservative party. they are on the verge of total collapse. just by comparison, and i must credit andrew neil for this who has been talking about it today, in the 1983 thatcher landslide, labour got 27.6% of the vote and 209 seats.

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