treasury officials", labour's policies would result in a £2,000 tax rise for every working family. the conservatives say they stand by their figures. it has been confirmed — as expected — that narendra modi will becomes india's prime minister for a third time. the 73—year—old found himself unexpectedly reliant on a number of smaller parties to reach a parliamentary majority, after his own party fell short of the 272 needed to form the next government. it may mean that in power he will need to be more concialatory than he has previously. a boeing spacecraft carrying two nasa astronauts is on its maiden voyage after a successful launch from cape caneveral this morning. this is starliners first crewed mission after years of costly setbacks. the astronauts, butch wilmore and suni williams, will spend one day in orbit before docking with the international space station. the first of two days of events have been taking place to mark the 80th anniversary of the normandy landings. king charles, queen camilla, prince william and the prime minister rishi sunak were in portsmouth today. five years ago, there were 225 veterans travelled to normandy for the commemorations — but it is a dwindling number, this year there were just 23 who travelled. good evening. the first televised debate of this campaign was styled by the media in the manner of a title fight. if that is what it was then the prime minister needed more than just a points victory. this morning papers declared rishi sunak the winner, "starmer on the ropes over tax", said the telegraph. but by lunchtime maybe the judges were questioning whether that knock out punch was more resembling, of a low blow. the shadow front benchers called rishi sunak "a liar" over this claim which the labour leader, seemed slow to dismiss. inflation is back to normal, wages are growing. taxes are now being cut. keir starmerwould are growing. taxes are now being cut. keir starmer would put all that progress at risk. he would put up everyone�*s taxes by £2000. £2000 progress at risk. he would put up everyone�*s taxes by £2000. e2000 and higher taxes for every working family in our country. claire coutinho doubled down on the prime ministers earlier claim. i have worked in the treasury, and i can tell you these are brilliant independent civil servants, and they would not be putting anything dodgy in there. these are all the policies that have been set up by the labour party, and actually, if anything, they are underestimating the cost to families. they have been signed off by the parliamentary secretary of the treasury. the figure first appeared in a conservative document called labour's tax rises published three weeks ago along with the claim that almost every costing had been conducted by the treasury. but two days ago the most senior civil servant in the treasury, the permanent secretary, james bowler wrote to labour making clear the civil service had not been as involved as the conservatives had claimed. "civil servants were not involved in the production or presentation of the conservative party's document. "labour's tax rises" or in the calculation of the total figure used" he wrote. the £38bn figure includes costs beyond those provided by the civil service. "any costings derived from other sources or produced by other organisations should not be presented as having been produced by the civil service." the conservatives have refused to back down on this figure. here's what andrew mitchell told the bbc�*s world at one programme on radio four. i think politicians calling each other liars in an election campaign. it just sort of the public just switch off and lose interest. it's important to say i don't believe that either side is lying actually on this. the position is as follows that we have costed through treasury validated figures, but in addition to that, through other independent sources, i non—conservative sources how much labor's tax rises would be over the period of a parliament and we've come to the figure of £2,094. clairsaid clair said the permanent secretary signed it off, he says in a letter he hasn't that it's wrong. so it's a lie, isn't it?— lie, isn't it? the reason it's generated _ lie, isn't it? the reason it's generated this _ lie, isn't it? the reason it's generated this discussion l lie, isn't it? the reason it's| generated this discussion is lie, isn't it? the reason it's - generated this discussion is there is some kernel of truth. but people are now asking whether it's 1000 or 3000 or are now asking whether it's1000 or 3000 or whatever it is, the factors that the conservatives have managed to the public to think about tax rises because ultimately government spending comes from somewhere. it's either coming from borrowing or through tax rises, and that's the key. they've managed to get people to think about it, for so long in this campaign, so far, labour have managed to get away with dressing to conservatives that they are rubbish. now they are going to have to explain how they are going to pay for these premises, and that is a win. the figure may not be completely accurate, but they are getting to a central point which is funding has to come from somewhere. whenever there's a tax cut we talk about underfunded tax cuts, we ask where it's coming from. we don't do the same when it to spending and in this campaign i think we will start doing that and obviously that will benefit the conservatives. willful dishonesty- _ benefit the conservatives. willful dishonesty. even _ benefit the conservatives. willful dishonesty. even if _ benefit the conservatives. willful dishonesty. even if you _ benefit the conservatives. willful dishonesty. even if you accept. benefit the conservatives. willful i dishonesty. even if you accept that these _ dishonesty. even if you accept that these figures are true, this is £2000 — these figures are true, this is £2000 over four years. it would be £500 _ £2000 over four years. it would be £500 a _ £2000 over four years. it would be £500 a year. this has been phrased in the extremely disingenuous way, but the _ in the extremely disingenuous way, but the fact is there are no manifestos will come of this is policy— manifestos will come of this is policy guessing games. and this has been presented to the public as being _ been presented to the public as being an — been presented to the public as being an independent figure. it is a conservative figure that has been disowned — conservative figure that has been disowned by the civil services. 0ver four years _ disowned by the civil services. 0ver four years not over a single year. this_ four years not over a single year. this is_ four years not over a single year. this is desperate stuff for the conservatives and it's also incredibly disappointing that keir starmer— incredibly disappointing that keir starmer wasn't more able to rebut it in the _ starmer wasn't more able to rebut it in the moment. it took four spinners after the _ in the moment. it took four spinners after the debate to make the point that this _ after the debate to make the point that this was not true. the other thing _ that this was not true. the other thing is, — that this was not true. the other thing is, you say that the papers said that — thing is, you say that the papers said that this was a win for rishi sunak— said that this was a win for rishi sunak over— said that this was a win for rishi sunak over this particular point. there _ sunak over this particular point. there are — sunak over this particular point. there are five conservative papers right—leaning papers in the uk and they were — right—leaning papers in the uk and they were the ones who splashed on this, who _ they were the ones who splashed on this, who grabbed hold of this and because _ this, who grabbed hold of this and because this one issue has been allowed — because this one issue has been allowed to— because this one issue has been allowed to run overnight, it's now dominating — allowed to run overnight, it's now dominating the agenda today, but this is— dominating the agenda today, but this is completely untrue and i think— this is completely untrue and i think it — this is completely untrue and i think it should be beneath rishi sunak— think it should be beneath rishi sunak to — think it should be beneath rishi sunak to be using this as an attack iihe _ sunak to be using this as an attack line it _ sunak to be using this as an attack line. it shows desperation. were you surrised line. it shows desperation. were you surprised given _ line. it shows desperation. were you surprised given that _ line. it shows desperation. were you surprised given that labour- line. it shows desperation. were you surprised given that labour had - line. it shows desperation. were you surprised given that labour had had| surprised given that labour had had this document for some weeks and had this document for some weeks and had this letterfrom the this document for some weeks and had this letter from the permanent secretary two days ago that rishi sunak was able to talk about this figure 11 or 12 times before the labour leader really pushed back on it? �* ., , labour leader really pushed back on it? ., i, , , it? and from the very surprising, actuall . it? and from the very surprising, actually. clearly _ it? and from the very surprising, actually. clearly rishi _ it? and from the very surprising, actually. clearly rishi sunak- it? and from the very surprising, l actually. clearly rishi sunak knows he's going to lose the election so basically what is decided to do is just to come out fighting and no holes barred. i think that to expect the leader of opposition to be in a position where he can rebut that very quickly and very instantly that not for the first time, actually, i think we saw a keir starmer in doing so, either he hadn't been properly briefed her he hadn't taken on whatever briefings he'd been given because if you didn't realise, rishi sunak making something up, you would think as somebody who is an observer of how is said that he came across better than keir starmer. that doesn't really work during an election campaign. you need to be able to have the instant rebuttal. much more nimble. there's a kernel of truth to this, it is said postop rachel reeves weather asked whether she will rule out tax rises, vat, she will rule out tax rises, vat, she said there's nothing in our plans and requires further tax rises. how are they going to find the money. i rises. how are they going to find the money-— the money. i think there are two se arate the money. i think there are two separate issues _ the money. i think there are two separate issues at _ the money. i think there are two separate issues at play - separate issues at play here, christian, the numbers which are all a bit back of a package, there is the separate issue of honesty in politics and we don't think it's acceptable for any political leader to pass off their own analysis as the work of independent civil servants because it calls the civil service into question. we've asked the prime ministerfor a correction. i'm not holding my breath that's going to happen but there is a broader issue and that is that neither of the main parties are really talking about the choices that will face any incoming government. and if you sum of those choices into words are those options, it's probably not great. i leave got to cut public services, many of which are already on their knees or you've got to borrow a lot more money, which will increase debt repayment and puts off problems and make problems bigger in the future. 0r you've got to raise taxes. being honest with the public and having a proper debate, of course, doesn't help when you have a debate when your answers have to be 45 seconds long for some of these complex issues, but neither of the main parties i think are being particularly honest with the british. . ,., particularly honest with the british. . ., , . british. labour governments have done this in _ british. labour governments have done this in the _ british. labour governments have done this in the past, _ british. labour governments have done this in the past, when - british. labour governments have done this in the past, when it - british. labour governments have i done this in the past, when it comes to costing commitments in manifestos, do we need an independent body who does it for us, the voters? ~ , ,., , independent body who does it for us, thevoters? ~ , , , the voters? absolutely because it means the government, - the voters? absolutely because it means the government, the - the voters? absolutely because it| means the government, the party the voters? absolutely because it - means the government, the party that is in government has access to the civil service — is in government has access to the civil service figures which the opposition doesn't have. so that's not fair _ opposition doesn't have. so that's not fair we — opposition doesn't have. so that's not fair. we do need independent assessments, we also need the manifestos to be published, the idea we are _ manifestos to be published, the idea we are having this conversation are coming _ we are having this conversation are coming up — we are having this conversation are coming up in — we are having this conversation are coming up in the debates happening before _ coming up in the debates happening before we _ coming up in the debates happening before we know what is written in the manifestos is quite absurd. it's silly and _ the manifestos is quite absurd. it's silly and i_ the manifestos is quite absurd. it's silly and i think it turns off voters _ silly and i think it turns off voters i— silly and i think it turns off voters. i think it was unedifying from _ voters. i think it was unedifying from iroth— voters. i think it was unedifying from both of them yesterday and it means— from both of them yesterday and it means that all numbers become ridiculous— means that all numbers become ridiculous and as chris mason was think— ridiculous and as chris mason was think of— ridiculous and as chris mason was think of is— ridiculous and as chris mason was think of is 350 million on the side of the _ think of is 350 million on the side of the bus, — think of is 350 million on the side of the bus, you know, we have become incredibly— of the bus, you know, we have become incredibly sceptical about numbers incredibly sceptical about numbers ih politics— incredibly sceptical about numbers in politics and it's a shame because we do _ in politics and it's a shame because we do need — in politics and it's a shame because we do need to know how much we are going _ we do need to know how much we are going to _ we do need to know how much we are going to he _ we do need to know how much we are going to be paying. we do need to know how much we are going to be paying-— going to be paying. another part of the debate. — going to be paying. another part of the debate, discussions _ going to be paying. another part of the debate, discussions over- the debate, discussions over hospital waiting lists. we are now making progress, the waiting lists are coming down, but what keir starmer did not mention to you, which you did, julie... hang on. waiting lists were 7.2 million, they are now 7.5 million, and he says they are coming down. and this is a guy who says he's good at maths. yeah, they are now coming down. they are now coming down. 7.2, when you said would get them down, 7.2 million, they are now 7.5 million. i'd like you to explain how they are coming down. because they are coming down from where they were when they were higher. and they are now on their way down. laughter so who is right on that. here's verify�*s ben chu who has been looking at the numbers. in effect, the prime minister and keir starmer were both right. we've got a verified chart to walk you through it. this is nhs waiting times in england, which is the target they are talking about. you can see here, it did peak last september at about 2.8 million, and it has come down... sorry, 7.8 million down to 7.5 million now. so, the prime minister is right that waiting lists have come down, but this is what keir starmer was talking about. he was talking about when rishi sunak made his pledge to get waiting lists down, which was in january 2023. and waiting lists then were around 7.3 million. so, relative to them, they have gone up. so, they are both right. it depends on which period you are talking about. what are voters meant to think when the two parties are picking different time frames to make their case? �* , different time frames to make their case? �*, ., _ , different time frames to make their case? ., _ y'. case? it's obviously very difficult to make a _ case? it's obviously very difficult to make a proper— case? it's obviously very difficult to make a proper comparison. i case? it's obviously very difficult i to make a proper comparison. one to make a proper comparison. 0ne further— to make a proper comparison. 0ne further point — to make a proper comparison. 0ne further point i _ to make a proper comparison. 0ne further point i would _ to make a proper comparison. 0ne further point i would make - to make a proper comparison. 0ne further point i would make a - to make a proper comparison. 0ne further point i would make a really| further point i would make a really is the _ further point i would make a really is the situation _ further point i would make a really is the situation in _ further point i would make a really is the situation in wales _ further point i would make a really is the situation in wales wasn't - is the situation in wales wasn't brought— is the situation in wales wasn't brought in _ is the situation in wales wasn't brought in if— is the situation in wales wasn't brought in. if you _ is the situation in wales wasn't brought in. if you look- is the situation in wales wasn't brought in. if you look at - is the situation in wales wasn't brought in. if you look at the l brought in. if you look at the waiting — brought in. if you look at the waiting lists _ brought in. if you look at the waiting lists and _ brought in. if you look at the waiting lists and waiting - brought in. if you look at the i waiting lists and waiting times brought in. if you look at the - waiting lists and waiting times in wales, _ waiting lists and waiting times in wales, they— waiting lists and waiting times in wales, they are _ waiting lists and waiting times in wales, they are demonstrably i waiting lists and waiting times in - wales, they are demonstrably worse than in _ wales, they are demonstrably worse than in england _ wales, they are demonstrably worse than in england. we've _ wales, they are demonstrably worse than in england. we've been- than in england. we've been expecting. _ than in england. we've been expecting, really, _ than in england. we've been expecting, really, the - than in england. we've been expecting, really, the tory. than in england. we've been- expecting, really, the tory party to make _ expecting, really, the tory party to make hav— expecting, really, the tory party to make hav of— expecting, really, the tory party to make hay of that _ expecting, really, the tory party to make hay of that actually - expecting, really, the tory party to make hay of that actually because i make hay of that actually because they've _ make hay of that actually because they've done _ make hay of that actually because they've done it _ make hay of that actually because they've done it in— make hay of that actually because they've done it in the _ make hay of that actually because they've done it in the past- make hay of that actually because they've done it in the past i'm - make hay of that actually because they've done it in the past i'm a l they've done it in the past i'm a bit surprised _ they've done it in the past i'm a bit surprised that _ they've done it in the past i'm a bit surprised that they- they've done it in the past i'm a bit surprised that they haven't i bit surprised that they haven't immediately— bit surprised that they haven't immediately got _ bit surprised that they haven't immediately got off— bit surprised that they haven't immediately got off the - bit surprised that they haven'ti immediately got off the ground without— immediately got off the ground without so— immediately got off the ground without so far, _ immediately got off the ground without so far, but _ immediately got off the ground without so far, but you - immediately got off the ground without so far, but you know, i immediately got off the ground i without so far, but you know, that is the _ without so far, but you know, that is the situation. _ without so far, but you know, that is the situation. yeah, _ without so far, but you know, that is the situation. yeah, if— without so far, but you know, that is the situation. yeah, if you i without so far, but you know, that is the situation. yeah, if you have| is the situation. yeah, if you have -ot is the situation. yeah, if you have got different _ is the situation. yeah, if you have got different politicians _ is the situation. yeah, if you have got different politicians putting i got different politicians putting forward — got different politicians putting forward situations _ got different politicians putting forward situations where - got different politicians putting forward situations where you . got different politicians putting i forward situations where you are not comparing, — forward situations where you are not comparing, vou _ forward situations where you are not comparing, you are— forward situations where you are not comparing, you are comparing i forward situations where you are noti comparing, you are comparing apples with irananas— comparing, you are comparing apples with bananas or— comparing, you are comparing apples with bananas or something _ comparing, you are comparing apples with bananas or something it - comparing, you are comparing apples with bananas or something itjust- with bananas or something itjust doesn't _ with bananas or something itjust doesn't make _ with bananas or something itjust doesn't make sense. _ with bananas or something itjust doesn't make sense. it— with bananas or something it 'ust doesn't make sense.i with bananas or something it 'ust doesn't make sense. it seems to me we are in a — doesn't make sense. it seems to me we are in a real— doesn't make sense. it seems to me we are in a real bind _ doesn't make sense. it seems to me we are in a real bind here _ doesn't make sense. it seems to me we are in a real bind here as - doesn't make sense. it seems to me we are in a real bind here as a i we are in a real bind here as a country. we are a lot poorer since 2008. the conservatives have put more money into the nhs, but you look at the cost of the nhs in those figures that ben has just presented and i wonder whether the voting public think, actually, given the limited amount of funding available to the next government, whether we need a national conversation about where we go from here.— need a national conversation about where we go from here. exactly. just as they bound _ where we go from here. exactly. just as they bound -- _ where we go from here. exactly. just as they bound -- both _ where we go from here. exactly. just as they bound -- both don't - where we go from here. exactly. just as they bound -- both don't have i where we go from here. exactly. just as they bound -- both don't have an | as they bound —— both don't have an explanation for tax rises, keir starmer can't explain how he would pay for things, rishi sunak can't explain how taxes have gone up so high under conservative government. they both don't have an answer for the nhs. neither of them are talking but the fundamental issue, which is the nhs gets much more money now thanit the nhs gets much more money now than it used to and yet it is —— it's output is not as good as it should be and yet cancer care is comparatively very bad. neither of them are talking about private health care because people can afford private health care it will get it and therefore those who can't afford it will have shorter waiting lists. neither of them wants to confront that. and that's what makes third friday —— a third party, let's just say nigel farage, to come in and start saying different things. that's where his political space is. one of the most interest in parts of the debate can you say they didn't talk about private health was this question of whether the either of the two leaders were deprived —— was the question on whether either of the two leaders would use private health. if you had loved ones on a long waiting list for surgery, would you, if you felt that that was the only way forward, use private health care, rishi sunak? yes. keir starmer? no. absolutely no, if your loved one was on a waiting list for surgery? no. thank you very much. i don't use private health. i use the nhs. that's where my wife works, in one of the big hospitals. as i say, it runs through my dna. he felt uncomfortable about his answer enough that why he would make that decision. and yet i didn't think it was inauthentic. it was almost instinctive, which perhaps suggests to us, does it not, that he's more ideological than he would like us to believe at this moment. it was interesting because as you say, _ it was interesting because as you say, it— it was interesting because as you say, it was— it was interesting because as you say, it was a clear philosophical division — say, it was a clear philosophical division between the two, one of those _ division between the two, one of those clear moments. it's obvious keir starmer what is interesting their— keir starmer what is interesting their election promise is, they will add 40,000 appointments a day, week, rather— add 40,000 appointments a day, week, rather and _ add 40,000 appointments a day, week, rather and you might think i'm a 180,000— rather and you might think i'm a 180,000 people a month that are more satisfied _ 180,000 people a month that are more satisfied with the service they are getting _ satisfied with the service they are getting from the nhs, that is pretty good, _ getting from the nhs, that is pretty good, but _ getting from the nhs, that is pretty good, but if you look at it from the other— good, but if you look at it from the other end — good, but if you look at it from the other end of— good, but if you look at it from the other end of the pipe, the nhs sees about— other end of the pipe, the nhs sees about a _ other end of the pipe, the nhs sees about a million people every day, monday— about a million people every day, monday to — about a million people every day, monday to friday. so from that perspective, 40,000 a week feels like a _ perspective, 40,000 a week feels like a bit _ perspective, 40,000 a week feels like a bit of a drop in the ocean. it like a bit of a drop in the ocean. it shows— like a bit of a drop in the ocean. it shows how much of a discussion we need to— it shows how much of a discussion we need to have — it shows how much of a discussion we need to have-— need to have. they are saying they would have — need to have. they are saying they would have nights _ need to have. they are saying they would have nights and _ need to have. they are saying they would have nights and weekends i need to have. they are saying they l would have nights and weekends and they would buy incapacity from the private sector. does that stack up? it starts to add up a little bit more. — it starts to add up a little bit more, but it doesn't begin to solve the problem and also the additional problem _ the problem and also the additional problem of the number of people we have who _ problem of the number of people we have who can work in the nhs, which has been _ have who can work in the nhs, which has been a _ have who can work in the nhs, which has been a problem since free movement from the eu ended and a lot of the _ movement from the eu ended and a lot of the people who hadn't come from that you _ of the people who hadn't come from that you have now been replaced for immigration elsewhere in the world, and that— immigration elsewhere in the world, and that obviously feeds into the debate _ and that obviously feeds into the debate about immigration during the election— debate about immigration during the election as well stop at the shadow paymaster general seemed to suggest today that _ paymaster general seemed to suggest today that if you are facing a life—threatening condition, you would — life—threatening condition, you would go — life—threatening condition, you would go to the nhs anyway, which confused _ would go to the nhs anyway, which confused me because if you look at the studies — confused me because if you look at the studies for cancer patients who visited _ the studies for cancer patients who visited a _ the studies for cancer patients who visited a private consultant, they are more — visited a private consultant, they are more likely to be diagnosed at this moment at an earlier stage and surel , in this moment at an earlier stage and surely. in fact. _ this moment at an earlier stage and surely. in fact. i— this moment at an earlier stage —.ic surely, in fact, i think this moment at an earlier stage —."ic surely, in fact, i think emily thornberry was honest about it today and said, look, i have the money come if it was a life—threatening condition for one of my family members, they would go to private health. yum! i could thinkjonathan ashworth was being asked about if it was a child commit was keir starmer�*s child and he was saying, children would get better treatment at great orman street then they would in the private sector, and this is the think of the nhs generally when you are talking about treatment, not necessarily diagnosis where you have to wait to see a specialist or wait to have tests, but when you are talking about treatment when it really matters, the best people generally are working within the nhs. it's just when you have to wait for things that it's a problem, so of course, cancer figures, that it's a problem, so of course, cancerfigures, you know, we are going to be doing really badly with waiting lists at that level, but there were audible groans last night when rishi sunak was talking about the figures and the waiting lists coming down and blaming covid and blaming the strikes are not taking responsibility for it. we have all begun to take for granted that we are not going to be able to see a doctor quickly or at all an are not going to be able to see a doctor quickly or at all— are not going to be able to see a doctor quickly or at all on the nhs then it is going — doctor quickly or at all on the nhs then it is going to _ doctor quickly or at all on the nhs then it is going to be _ doctor quickly or at all on the nhs then it is going to be a big - then it is going to be a big struggle. so of course it's understandable that people when they have the means to jump a q, understandable that people when they have the means to jump a 0, that doesn't mean they are going to get better care, they willjust get doesn't mean they are going to get better care, they will just get a faster. better care, they will 'ust get a faster. , . ., ., faster. the elephant in the room that we have _ faster. the elephant in the room that we have not _ faster. the elephant in the room that we have not discussed i faster. the elephant in the room that we have not discussed as i faster. the elephant in the rooml that we have not discussed as the strikes. demanding 35%, both keir starmer and rishi sunak have said you can't bring waiting lists down can you until you solve the strikes? that's absolutely right. the strikes are not— that's absolutely right. the strikes are not taking _ that's absolutely right. the strikes are not taking place _ that's absolutely right. the strikes are not taking place at _ that's absolutely right. the strikes are not taking place at the - that's absolutely right. the strikes| are not taking place at the moment in wales _ are not taking place at the moment in wales i— are not taking place at the moment in wales. i notice _ are not taking place at the moment in wales. i notice that _ are not taking place at the moment in wales. i notice that rishi - are not taking place at the moment in wales. i notice that rishi sunaki in wales. i notice that rishi sunak was really— in wales. i notice that rishi sunak was really pressing _ in wales. i notice that rishi sunak was really pressing keir— in wales. i notice that rishi sunak was really pressing keir starmer. was really pressing keir starmer about— was really pressing keir starmer about how— was really pressing keir starmer about how there _ was really pressing keir starmer about how there was _ was really pressing keir starmer about how there was a - was really pressing keir starmer. about how there was a settlement, and i_ about how there was a settlement, and i thought— about how there was a settlement, and i thought it _ about how there was a settlement, and i thought it was _ about how there was a settlement, and i thought it was quite - about how there was a settlement, and i thought it was quite weak- about how there was a settlement, and i thought it was quite weak in i and i thought it was quite weak in his response _ and i thought it was quite weak in his response. as— and i thought it was quite weak in his response. as robustly- and i thought it was quite weak in his response. as robustly as- and i thought it was quite weak in his response. as robustly as he i his response. as robustly as he should — his response. as robustly as he should done _ his response. as robustly as he should done.— his response. as robustly as he should done. around the world and across the uk. this is bbc news. the first minister of wales vaughan gething has lost a confidence vote this evening after two of his labour colleagues called in sick. the conservatives had put forward a vote of no confidence in mr gething over donationshad he had received while bidding for the leadership of welsh labour back in march. the party holds 30 of the 60 seats in the welsh parliament, he needed all of his labour colleagues to back him today. the first minister was digging in ahead of this vote, but he was reduced to tears during the course of the debate. here he is responding to some of the criticism. even in the midst of an election campaign, it does hurt deeply when my intentions are questioned. i have never ever made a decision in more than a decade as a minister for personal or financial gain. never. than a decade as a minister for personal orfinancial gain. never. i personal or financial gain. never. i do personal orfinancial gain. never. i do not doubt the sincerity behind some of the questions that the motion touches on today, even if the motion touches on today, even if the motion is transparently designed for another purpose. i hope the people in this chamber and beyond will take a moment to reflect on the sincerity with which i have answered and continue to answer these questions. i will not shy away from scrutiny and challenge.— i will not shy away from scrutiny and challenge. martin, i do believe i and challenge. martin, i do believe i pronounce — and challenge. martin, i do believe i pronounce that _ and challenge. martin, i do believe i pronounce that awfully _ and challenge. martin, i do believe i pronounce that awfully at - and challenge. martin, i do believe i pronounce that awfully at the i i pronounce that awfully at the beginning of the programme. i do apologise. let's talk about his response today. it looks unlikely he will stand down. davy devi said tonight that his position is now untenable and he must resign immediately. does political power start to ebb away from him? i think it's extremely _ start to ebb away from him? i think it's extremely difficult _ start to ebb away from him? i think it's extremely difficult for _ start to ebb away from him? i think it's extremely difficult for them i it's extremely difficult for them honestly~ — it's extremely difficult for them honestly. there _ it's extremely difficult for them honestly. there are _ it's extremely difficult for them honestly. there are a _ it's extremely difficult for them honestly. there are a lot - it's extremely difficult for them honestly. there are a lot of i it's extremely difficult for them i honestly. there are a lot of people, even _ honestly. there are a lot of people, even in _ honestly. there are a lot of people, even in the — honestly. there are a lot of people, even in the labour— honestly. there are a lot of people, even in the labour group _ honestly. there are a lot of people, even in the labour group who - even in the labour group who backed him today, _ even in the labour group who backed him today, obviously— even in the labour group who backed him today, obviously a _ even in the labour group who backed him today, obviously a couple - him today, obviously a couple didn't — him today, obviously a couple didn't as _ him today, obviously a couple didn't as you _ him today, obviously a couple didn't. as you said, _ him today, obviously a couple didn't. as you said, they- him today, obviously a couple didn't. as you said, they rang| him today, obviously a couple . didn't. as you said, they rang in sick— didn't. as you said, they rang in sick as— didn't. as you said, they rang in sick as consequence _ didn't. as you said, they rang in sick as consequence of - didn't. as you said, they rang in- sick as consequence of the outcome he lost _ sick as consequence of the outcome he lost the — sick as consequence of the outcome he lost the vote. _ sick as consequence of the outcome he lost the vote. but _ sick as consequence of the outcome he lost the vote. but more - sick as consequence of the outcome he lost the vote. but more people l he lost the vote. but more people are against— he lost the vote. but more people are against him— he lost the vote. but more people are against him in— he lost the vote. but more people are against him in the _ he lost the vote. but more people are against him in the group- he lost the vote. but more people are against him in the group then| are against him in the group then are against him in the group then are in— are against him in the group then are in favour— are against him in the group then are in favourof_ are against him in the group then are in favour of him. _ are against him in the group then are in favour of him. and - are against him in the group then are in favour of him. and i- are against him in the group then are in favour of him. and i think. are against him in the group then| are in favour of him. and i think it is only— are in favour of him. and i think it is onlya— are in favour of him. and i think it is only a matter— are in favour of him. and i think it is only a matter of _ are in favour of him. and i think it is only a matter of time _ are in favour of him. and i think it is only a matter of time before i are in favour of him. and i think it is only a matter of time before hej is only a matter of time before he is forced — is only a matter of time before he is forced out _ is only a matter of time before he is forced out. it's _ is only a matter of time before he is forced out. it's going _ is only a matter of time before he is forced out. it's going to - is only a matter of time before he is forced out. it's going to be i is forced out. it's going to be desperately_ is forced out. it's going to be desperately embarrassing i is forced out. it's going to be| desperately embarrassing for is forced out. it's going to be i desperately embarrassing for keir starmer, — desperately embarrassing for keir starmer, actually, _ desperately embarrassing for keir starmer, actually, during - desperately embarrassing for keir starmer, actually, during the i starmer, actually, during the election— starmer, actually, during the election campaign— starmer, actually, during the election campaign to - starmer, actually, during the election campaign to be i starmer, actually, during the - election campaign to be standing next to— election campaign to be standing next to somebody _ election campaign to be standing next to somebody launching - election campaign to be standing next to somebody launching a i next to somebody launching a manifesto _ next to somebody launching a manifesto in _ next to somebody launching a manifesto in wales, _ next to somebody launching a manifesto in wales, perhaps, | next to somebody launching a - manifesto in wales, perhaps, the welsh _ manifesto in wales, perhaps, the welsh manifesto _ manifesto in wales, perhaps, the welsh manifesto standing - manifesto in wales, perhaps, the welsh manifesto standing next i manifesto in wales, perhaps, the welsh manifesto standing next to somebody— welsh manifesto standing next to somebody who _ welsh manifesto standing next to somebody who has _ welsh manifesto standing next to somebody who has not _ welsh manifesto standing next to somebody who has not only- welsh manifesto standing next to somebody who has not only been| somebody who has not only been defeated — somebody who has not only been defeated in — somebody who has not only been defeated in a _ somebody who has not only been defeated in a no—confidence - somebody who has not only been . defeated in a no—confidence motion, but to— defeated in a no—confidence motion, but to also, — defeated in a no—confidence motion, but to also, as — defeated in a no—confidence motion, but to also, as everybody _ defeated in a no—confidence motion, but to also, as everybody knows - but to also, as everybody knows except _ but to also, as everybody knows except the — but to also, as everybody knows except the £200,000 _ but to also, as everybody knows except the £200,000 from - but to also, as everybody knows except the £200,000 from a i but to also, as everybody knows - except the £200,000 from a convicted criminat— except the £200,000 from a convicted criminal towards— except the £200,000 from a convicted criminal towards his _ except the £200,000 from a convicted criminal towards his leadership- criminal towards his leadership campaign — criminal towards his leadership campaign which _ criminal towards his leadership campaign which he _ criminal towards his leadership campaign which he only- criminal towards his leadership campaign which he only one i criminal towards his leadership. campaign which he only one very narrowly— campaign which he only one very narrowly and _ campaign which he only one very narrowly and therefore _ campaign which he only one very narrowly and therefore it - campaign which he only one very narrowly and therefore it is - campaign which he only one very narrowly and therefore it is easy| campaign which he only one very. narrowly and therefore it is easy to make _ narrowly and therefore it is easy to make the _ narrowly and therefore it is easy to make the argument— narrowly and therefore it is easy to make the argument that _ narrowly and therefore it is easy to make the argument that he - make the argument that he effectively _ make the argument that he effectively bought- make the argument that he effectively bought the - make the argument that he - effectively bought the election. you know, _ effectively bought the election. you know. and — effectively bought the election. you know. and he — effectively bought the election. you know, and he has— effectively bought the election. you know, and he has been— effectively bought the election. you know, and he has been criticised i effectively bought the election. you| know, and he has been criticised for dragging _ know, and he has been criticised for dragging wetsh _ know, and he has been criticised for dragging welsh politics _ know, and he has been criticised for dragging welsh politics into - know, and he has been criticised for dragging welsh politics into the - dragging welsh politics into the gotten — dragging welsh politics into the gotten you _ dragging welsh politics into the gutter. you know, _ dragging welsh politics into the gutter. you know, a _ dragging welsh politics into the gutter. you know, a lot - dragging welsh politics into the gutter. you know, a lot of- dragging welsh politics into the i gutter. you know, a lot of people and polls— gutter. you know, a lot of people and polls demonstrate _ gutter. you know, a lot of people and polls demonstrate this, - and polls demonstrate this, extremely— and polls demonstrate this, extremely concerned - and polls demonstrate this, extremely concerned about| and polls demonstrate this, i extremely concerned about the situation — extremely concerned about the situation from _ extremely concerned about the situation from about _ extremely concerned about the situation from about the - extremely concerned about the| situation from about the impact extremely concerned about the - situation from about the impact on wetsh _ situation from about the impact on welsh democracy, _ situation from about the impact on welsh democracy, the _ situation from about the impact on welsh democracy, the impact - situation from about the impact on welsh democracy, the impact on l situation from about the impact on l welsh democracy, the impact on the senate _ welsh democracy, the impact on the senate as— welsh democracy, the impact on the senate as an — welsh democracy, the impact on the senate as an institution, _ welsh democracy, the impact on the senate as an institution, and - welsh democracy, the impact on the senate as an institution, and really. senate as an institution, and really i think— senate as an institution, and really ithink at— senate as an institution, and really i think at the — senate as an institution, and really i think at the moment, _ senate as an institution, and really i think at the moment, people - senate as an institution, and really i think at the moment, people in. senate as an institution, and really. i think at the moment, people in the labour party— i think at the moment, people in the labour party have _ i think at the moment, people in the labour party have been _ i think at the moment, people in the labour party have been sort - i think at the moment, people in the labour party have been sort of - labour party have been sort of putting — labour party have been sort of pulling together _ labour party have been sort of pulling together in _ labour party have been sort of pulling together in order- labour party have been sort of pulling together in order to - pulling together in order to show tribal— pulling together in order to show tribal toyatty~ _ pulling together in order to show tribal loyalty. it's _ pulling together in order to show tribal loyalty. it's not _ pulling together in order to show tribal loyalty. it's not going - pulling together in order to show tribal loyalty. it's not going to i tribal loyalty. it's not going to -et tribal loyalty. it's not going to get any— tribal loyalty. it's not going to get any better— tribal loyalty. it's not going to get any better for— tribal loyalty. it's not going to get any better for him, - tribal loyalty. it's not going to get any better for him, there i get any better for him, there are other— get any better for him, there are other revelations _ get any better for him, there are other revelations which - get any better for him, there are other revelations which are - get any better for him, there are| other revelations which are going get any better for him, there are i other revelations which are going to come _ other revelations which are going to come out, _ other revelations which are going to come out, and _ other revelations which are going to come out, and he _ other revelations which are going to come out, and he will— other revelations which are going to come out, and he will be _ other revelations which are going to come out, and he will be constantlyi come out, and he will be constantly under— come out, and he will be constantly under the _ come out, and he will be constantly under the caution, _ come out, and he will be constantly under the caution, every— come out, and he will be constantly under the caution, every time - come out, and he will be constantly under the caution, every time he i under the caution, every time he appears — under the caution, every time he appears in — under the caution, every time he appears in public— under the caution, every time he appears in public he's _ under the caution, every time he appears in public he's asked - under the caution, every time he. appears in public he's asked about this issue. — appears in public he's asked about this issue, and _ appears in public he's asked about this issue, and other— appears in public he's asked about this issue, and other issues- appears in public he's asked about this issue, and other issues as - appears in public he's asked abouti this issue, and other issues as well like misleading _ this issue, and other issues as well like misleading the _ this issue, and other issues as well like misleading the covid _ this issue, and other issues as well like misleading the covid inquiry. l like misleading the covid inquiry. there _ like misleading the covid inquiry. there wiii— like misleading the covid inquiry. there will be _ like misleading the covid inquiry. there will be conservative - like misleading the covid inquiry. there will be conservative can i like misleading the covid inquiry. i there will be conservative can data the —— candidates who will be rubbing your hands tonight, want there? , �* , ., rubbing your hands tonight, want there? , 2 ., ., there? there will be. it's not about one company _ there? there will be. it's not about one company in _ there? there will be. it's not about one company in one _ there? there will be. it's not about one company in one donation. - there? there will be. it's not about one company in one donation. it'sl one company in one donation. it's about a much wider malaise where welsh has been in powerfor too long, it goes back to covid, the health minister, wales tried to lock down much more harshly than the rest of the uk who i think i have disastrous effect. it's about taxation whether they are chasing people, including visitors who contribute to the welsh economy, it's about 20 mph zones, i am not surprised that the opposition in wales is totally against them. i'm not surprised that somebody in his party couldn't find the energy to turn up. this is someone who represents a party that has lost its energy in wales. it's notjust temperaments marked raeford and so on. but as for conservatives, yes, they will benefit from this, but the people who are really struggling, i think some of the people of wales. we are up against a break. plenty more to come. we will talk about climate change. why is it not featuring is a big issue in this campaign? we will take a short break and be right back after this. hello. today has brought a rather chilly feel to the weather across many parts of the uk, particularly when you consider we are now intojune. that said, a bit of sunshine did make it feel relatively warm — the sun is strong at this time of year. there have been lengthy sunny spells, particularly down towards the south. further north, you can see a few more shower clouds on the satellite picture. those showers feeding in from the north—west on quite a brisk wind, which is also bringing us this supply of relatively chilly air and temperatures certainly dropping away as we go through tonight. although, this zone of cloud here sliding its way eastwards across england and wales, that mightjust hold the temperatures up a little bit. where we have the clearest of the skies, northern england, northern ireland up into scotland will be down into single digits, maybe close to freezing in one or two sheltered spots in the countryside. now we start tomorrow morning with a bit more cloud in the mix for some central and eastern parts of england, maybe the odd shower. that should tend to break up and then we're back to sunshine and showers. the showers most plentiful across northern areas. the odd heavy thundery one again across scotland. still quite windy in the far north, but further south, not as breezy as it has been today. those temperatures still a touch below the average for the time of year — 12 to 17 degrees covers it for most of us. now, as we move out of thursday into friday, we've still got low pressure to the north of us and this little frontal system here working its way southwards. a band of rain with that moving across scotland, northern ireland, down into northern england as we go through the day, tending to break up into something more showery. further showers racing into the north—west of scotland, where again, it will be quite windy and a bit more cloud around down towards the south. temperatures, though, a little bit higherfor some of us — 19 degrees in london, stilljust ii for lerwick and for stornoway. this area of high pressure out towards the west, it is making some attempts to build its way in, but not making an awful lot of progress, so saturday, still dominated by low pressure, bringing showers or perhaps longer spells of rain across scotland. the odd shower into northern ireland, northern england, further south, not as many showers, more dry weather, some spells of sunshine. those temperatures, though, pretty much stuck in that range between 11 and 19 degrees. similar temperatures for the second half of the weekend on sunday. the showers mostly across the north, drier weather further south. hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. reports suggest the conservative party is yet to to find more than 100 candidates across the uk, with 48 hours to go. the un secretary—general antonio guterres said today "we are at a moment of truth" when it comes to the climate targets we have set.