much distress, it's causing so much distress in the region of the wider middle east as well, so the damage, the damage that it is doing to that region, to geopolitics, to the reputation of the us, and, of course, to palestinians whose lives are being shredded in this way. it alljust keeps mounting, and when you come in previous wars and israel, quite often, just as now the conversation is very much how long can israel keep fighting before international community tells it to stop? how much longer has israel got? that's always been the calculation, what is the window of opportunity? so that has very much been the calculation this time as well because it is clear that it is only international pressure that will stop at. only international pressure that will st0p at— only international pressure that willstoat. ., ., , will stop at. ron, will it make any difference to _ will stop at. ron, will it make any difference to the _ will stop at. ron, will it make any difference to the american - difference to the american administration?— difference to the american administration? no, no. ithink president— administration? no, no. ithink president biden _ administration? no, no. ithink president biden has _ administration? no, no. ithink president biden has been - administration? no, no. ithink president biden has been very| administration? no, no. ithink- president biden has been very clear that he _ president biden has been very clear that he stands shoulder to shoulder with the _ that he stands shoulder to shoulder with the israeli prime minister, that israel has a right to defend itself _ that israel has a right to defend itself. the united nationsjust completed this vote condemning israel_ completed this vote condemning israel and calling for a cease—fire, but so _ israel and calling for a cease—fire, but so long — israel and calling for a cease—fire, but so long as i think there is a bipartisan _ but so long as i think there is a bipartisan majority here in the united — bipartisan majority here in the united states congress and with president biden to support the israetis. — president biden to support the israetis. i_ president biden to support the israelis, i don't see any change in course _ israelis, i don't see any change in course and — israelis, i don't see any change in course. and let me say one more thing. _ course. and let me say one more thing. there _ course. and let me say one more thing, there was a cease—fire on october— thing, there was a cease—fire on october six _ thing, there was a cease—fire on october six of this year. it was hamas— october six of this year. it was hamas who went and raped and killed people _ hamas who went and raped and killed people in_ hamas who went and raped and killed people in the west bank, and as a sovereign — people in the west bank, and as a sovereign nation committing israel, if you _ sovereign nation committing israel, if you look— sovereign nation committing israel, if you look at the proportion of how many— if you look at the proportion of how many people died on that day versus how many— many people died on that day versus how many people died here in the states— how many people died here in the states and — how many people died here in the states and 911, i can see that they are that — states and 911, i can see that they are mad. there is widespread devastation, widespread destruction, but i devastation, widespread destruction, but i do _ devastation, widespread destruction, but i do understand the anger and resolve _ but i do understand the anger and resolve of— but i do understand the anger and resolve of the israeli people to make — resolve of the israeli people to make sure that something like this never_ make sure that something like this never happens again.— make sure that something like this never happens again. absolutely so. it will be interesting _ never happens again. absolutely so. it will be interesting to _ never happens again. absolutely so. it will be interesting to see, - never happens again. absolutely so. it will be interesting to see, as - never happens again. absolutely so. it will be interesting to see, as i - it will be interesting to see, as i said just before you came, some interesting words from joe biden today on the war in gaza, and clearly we have heard from the secretary of state in recent weeks as well that there is a gap between what they have promised the white house and what the situation is on the ground. in fact, let's look at the ground. in fact, let's look at the situation in gaza, because the israeli army has set its recovered the bodies of two hostages from gaza today. the un said that they are still waiting to confirm this but 27—year—old was taken hostage from the music festival in october, and this 36 euros was captured while serving as a logistics supervisor in the israeli armed forces. israel says that two soldiers were killed during the operation which led to the bodies being discovered, and additional soldiers were injured. the discovery of the bodies comes as more desperate images come out of the region. he received new footage from inside gaza today. it shows a un school being blown up by israeli soldiers. take a look at this. filth! that is israeli soldier seemingly celibate and that the air strike had come in. obviously are facing incoming fire, there may be reasons for that reaction, but it certainly did stand out to us today. let's bring in the farmer —— former director at us department of state, josh pauljoins me for more... mixed reaction to this today, we know palestinians have been sheltering in the schools and what looked or appeared to be celebration from the platoon that were watching from the platoon that were watching from behind that mound. what did you make a bet? i from behind that mound. what did you make a bet? ~ , ., , from behind that mound. what did you make a bet?— make a bet? i think israel is doing itself no favours _ make a bet? i think israel is doing itself no favours there _ make a bet? i think israel is doing itself no favours there have - make a bet? i think israel is doing itself no favours there have been l make a bet? i think israel is doing| itself no favours there have been a lot of videos circulating on social media. many of them picked up by the idf itself that have highlighted really the inhumanity of what is going on in gaza right now. anything you see this reflected in the un vote that we just saw, where you had countries such as france, canada, australia, new zealand, all close allies of the united states, voting for a cease—fire. i think that's extremely telling. he for a cease-fire. i think that's extremely telling. he resigned from the state department _ extremely telling. he resigned from the state department because - extremely telling. he resigned from the state department because you i the state department because you weren't happy with what was happening in the conflict. you have obviously been involved in moving some of the weapons through the state department to the israelis. what was it in particular that concern you? it what was it in particular that concern you?— what was it in particular that concern you? what was it in particular that concern ou? ., concern you? it was the scale and the scone — concern you? it was the scale and the scone of _ concern you? it was the scale and the scope of the _ concern you? it was the scale and the scope of the devastation - concern you? it was the scale and the scope of the devastation that| the scope of the devastation that already six weeks ago when i left government was unfolding in gaza already at that point, thousands of people had died, thousands of civilians and yet the us was pouring arms into that conflict on top of billions of dollars, tens of billions of dollars, tens of billions of dollars of arms that we have already provided with the goal of creating safety and security for israel, but obviously not having achieved that goal, so there was a policy, the provision of arms into a deadly conflict and notes whatsoever with the un government to debate or discuss these policies. this with the un government to debate or discuss these policies.— discuss these policies. this is not the first time _ discuss these policies. this is not the first time that _ discuss these policies. this is not the first time that israel - discuss these policies. this is not the first time that israel has - discuss these policies. this is not| the first time that israel has gone to war in gaza. what was different this time? why was it so different this time? why was it so different this time? why was it so different this time that you felt compelled to resign in such a public way? it is not the first _ resign in such a public way? it is not the first time _ resign in such a public way? it 3 not the first time that israel has gone to war in gaza. it's also not, of course, the first time that there has been conflict between israel and the palestinians. your previous guy said we should go back to when there was a cease—fire on october six. of course, there wasn't. this year had already been by that point the deadliest for palestinian children in the west bank as a result of israeli security forces and israeli settles of violence. the reason i decided to leave at this point was again the scale and scope of the violence, the immense amount of civilian deaths that we are seeing some of the dehumanisation of the palestinians who are suffering at the hands of weapons that i was being asked to participate in authorising. that and the inability to raise these concerns, when i tried, i was told to move faster with the arms deliveries. i felt i had to resign stop at the state department said in response to your resignation that they have been very clear throughout that the resignation that they have been very clear throughout tha— clear throughout that the israelis should be able _ clear throughout that the israelis should be able to _ clear throughout that the israelis should be able to defend - clear throughout that the israelis - should be able to defend themselves. we will continue to provide the assistance they need, they said, but we expect them to abide by international law as they defend themselves. israel says it is doing that to the best of it's ability. what do you make of that statement? so, i think it's his appaloosa —— absolutely right to provide them with defensive arms, the iron dome, preventing rockets from hitting people's houses. people should not live in fear of rocket fire. they should also not live in fear of aerial bombardment. i think there is doubt. and then, as well, if we want security and safety for israel and it is clear that what we are doing has not led to that, has not provided that, then we need to ask why in the answer is that there is no military solution. there is a political solution. the political solution is a return to the peace process and a quick return, not only to that process but a quick solution to that process but a quick solution to it. palestinian statehood rather than, for example, a process that leads nowhere.— than, for example, a process that leads nowhere. stay with us, when shi -|n~ leads nowhere. stay with us, when shipping our _ leads nowhere. stay with us, when shipping our panel— leads nowhere. stay with us, when shipping our panel in. _ leads nowhere. stay with us, when shipping our panel in. do - leads nowhere. stay with us, when shipping our panel in. do you - leads nowhere. stay with us, when shipping our panel in. do you think the united states has leverage over the united states has leverage over the israelis? clearly they are sending an awful lot of weapons to sustain this war. there are some who think that congress should be attaching conditions to it. should they? attaching conditions to it. should the ? , ., ., ~' they? first of all, i think the united states _ they? first of all, i think the united states does - they? first of all, i think the united states does have - they? first of all, i think the - united states does have significant sway with — united states does have significant sway with the israeli government, regardless of which product controls the knesset. the question at this juncture, — the knesset. the question at this juncture, given that we get israel well juncture, given that we get israel wett over— juncture, given that we get israel well over $1 billion a year should answer— well over $1 billion a year should answer that question. the secondary question— answer that question. the secondary question is— answer that question. the secondary question is what should our politics. _ question is what should our politics, commander previous guest articulated — politics, commander previous guest articulated this the right way, how do we _ articulated this the right way, how do we find — articulated this the right way, how do we find a political solution to this problem rather than a military one where — this problem rather than a military one where innocent civilians are being _ one where innocent civilians are being killed? and i think the united states— being killed? and i think the united states could be very strong actor in bringing _ states could be very strong actor in bringing these disparate parties to the table — bringing these disparate parties to the table to try to find a diplomatic and more humanitarian solution _ diplomatic and more humanitarian solution rather than what we have seen _ solution rather than what we have seen i_ solution rather than what we have seen. ~' solution rather than what we have seen. ~ ., , solution rather than what we have seen. ~ .,, , . ., , seen. i think it was the secretary of defence _ seen. i think it was the secretary of defence who _ seen. i think it was the secretary of defence who said _ seen. i think it was the secretary of defence who said that - seen. i think it was the secretary of defence who said that the - of defence who said that the israelis could suffer a strategic defeat unless they change the way they are conducting the war. the americans have good experience of that from what happened in iraq and afghanistan. that from what happened in iraq and afr hanistan. ~ ,,., , that from what happened in iraq and afghanistan-— afghanistan. absolutely. and i do remember president _ afghanistan. absolutely. and i do remember president biden - afghanistan. absolutely. and i doi remember president biden saying afghanistan. absolutely. and i do - remember president biden saying that i’ilht remember president biden saying that right at— remember president biden saying that right at the _ remember president biden saying that right at the beginning. _ remember president biden saying that right at the beginning. he _ remember president biden saying that right at the beginning. he did - remember president biden saying that right at the beginning. he did warn- right at the beginning. he did warn of the _ right at the beginning. he did warn of the perils — right at the beginning. he did warn of the perils of— right at the beginning. he did warn of the perils of that _ right at the beginning. he did warn of the perils of that experience - of the perils of that experience with the — of the perils of that experience with the us _ of the perils of that experience with the us in _ of the perils of that experience with the us in iraq. _ of the perils of that experience with the us in iraq. the - of the perils of that experience | with the us in iraq. the trouble of the perils of that experience - with the us in iraq. the trouble but this is— with the us in iraq. the trouble but this is that — with the us in iraq. the trouble but this is that the _ with the us in iraq. the trouble but this is that the us— with the us in iraq. the trouble but this is that the us is _ with the us in iraq. the trouble but this is that the us is not— with the us in iraq. the trouble but this is that the us is not an - with the us in iraq. the trouble but this is that the us is not an honestl this is that the us is not an honest broker— this is that the us is not an honest broker in— this is that the us is not an honest broker in this _ this is that the us is not an honest broker in this. it _ this is that the us is not an honest broker in this. it has— this is that the us is not an honest broker in this. it has facilitated - broker in this. it has facilitated endless, — broker in this. it has facilitated endless, countless _ broker in this. it has facilitated endless, countless green - broker in this. it has facilitated i endless, countless green rates broker in this. it has facilitated - endless, countless green rates for israeti _ endless, countless green rates for israeli violations. _ endless, countless green rates for israeli violations. not _ endless, countless green rates for israeli violations. not just - endless, countless green rates for israeli violations. not just the - israeli violations. not just the illegal— israeli violations. not just the illegal occupation— israeli violations. not just the illegal occupation of- israeli violations. not just the illegal occupation of the - israeli violations. not just the illegal occupation of the westi israeli violations. not just the - illegal occupation of the west bank and east _ illegal occupation of the west bank and eastjerusalem _ illegal occupation of the west bank and eastjerusalem but _ illegal occupation of the west bank and east jerusalem but the - illegal occupation of the west bank| and eastjerusalem but the building of settlements _ and eastjerusalem but the building of settlements there _ and eastjerusalem but the building of settlements there that _ and eastjerusalem but the building of settlements there that have - of settlements there that have continued _ of settlements there that have continued at _ of settlements there that have continued at pace, _ of settlements there that have continued at pace, that - of settlements there that have continued at pace, that have . continued at pace, that have continued _ continued at pace, that have continued throughout - continued at pace, that have continued throughout the i continued at pace, that have i continued throughout the years continued at pace, that have - continued throughout the years of the peace — continued throughout the years of the peace process. _ continued throughout the years of the peace process. the _ continued throughout the years of. the peace process. the construction of the _ the peace process. the construction of the illegal— the peace process. the construction of the illegal wall— the peace process. the construction of the illegal wall committee - of the illegal wall committee illegal— of the illegal wall committee illegal sees _ of the illegal wall committee illegal sees of— of the illegal wall committee illegal sees of gaza, - of the illegal wall committee illegal sees of gaza, the - of the illegal wall committee i illegal sees of gaza, the serial were _ illegal sees of gaza, the serial were some _ illegal sees of gaza, the serial were some guys _ illegal sees of gaza, the serial were some guys i _ illegal sees of gaza, the serial were some guys i which - illegal sees of gaza, the serial- were some guys i which thousands of people _ were some guys i which thousands of people have — were some guys i which thousands of people have been _ were some guys i which thousands of people have been killed _ were some guys i which thousands of people have been killed and - were some guys i which thousands of people have been killed and there i people have been killed and there have been— people have been killed and there have been violations _ people have been killed and there have been violations of _ have been violations of international— have been violations of international law. - have been violations of international law. all. have been violations of| international law. all of have been violations of - international law. all of this has only been— international law. all of this has only been possible _ international law. all of this has only been possible with - international law. all of this has only been possible with us - international law. all of this has. only been possible with us green tights, _ only been possible with us green tights, and — only been possible with us green tights, and so— only been possible with us green lights, and so the _ only been possible with us green lights, and so the idea _ only been possible with us green lights, and so the idea of- only been possible with us green lights, and so the idea of it - only been possible with us green lights, and so the idea of it beingi lights, and so the idea of it being seen _ lights, and so the idea of it being seen as— lights, and so the idea of it being seen as an — lights, and so the idea of it being seen as an honest _ lights, and so the idea of it being seen as an honest broker - lights, and so the idea of it being seen as an honest broker now- seen as an honest broker now is very. _ seen as an honest broker now is very. very— seen as an honest broker now is very, very difficult _ seen as an honest broker now is very, very difficult and - seen as an honest broker now is very, very difficult and the - seen as an honest broker now is . very, very difficult and the trouble of course — very, very difficult and the trouble of course is — very, very difficult and the trouble of course is that _ very, very difficult and the trouble of course is that for— very, very difficult and the trouble of course is that for the _ very, very difficult and the trouble of course is that for the past, - very, very difficult and the trouble of course is that for the past, you | of course is that for the past, you know, _ of course is that for the past, you know. 20 — of course is that for the past, you know. 20 or— of course is that for the past, you know. 20 or so _ of course is that for the past, you know, 20 or so years, _ of course is that for the past, you know, 20 or so years, there - of course is that for the past, you know, 20 or so years, there has i of course is that for the past, you - know, 20 or so years, there has been a political— know, 20 or so years, there has been a political vacuum, _ know, 20 or so years, there has been a political vacuum, there _ know, 20 or so years, there has been a political vacuum, there hasn't - a political vacuum, there hasn't been _ a political vacuum, there hasn't been a — a political vacuum, there hasn't been a peace _ a political vacuum, there hasn't been a peace process, - a political vacuum, there hasn't been a peace process, there . a political vacuum, there hasn't . been a peace process, there hasn't been _ been a peace process, there hasn't been any— been a peace process, there hasn't been any sort — been a peace process, there hasn't been any sort of _ been a peace process, there hasn't been any sort of political _ been a peace process, there hasn't been any sort of political solution i been any sort of political solution on the _ been any sort of political solution on the table _ been any sort of political solution on the table which _ been any sort of political solution on the table which has _ been any sort of political solution on the table which has led - been any sort of political solution on the table which has led israel, its government— on the table which has led israel, its government and _ on the table which has led israel, its government and its _ on the table which has led israel, | its government and its population on the table which has led israel, i its government and its population to think that _ its government and its population to think that this— its government and its population to think that this situation _ its government and its population to think that this situation was - think that this situation was sustainable _ think that this situation was sustainable and, _ think that this situation was sustainable and, of- think that this situation was sustainable and, of course, | think that this situation was . sustainable and, of course, it's think that this situation was - sustainable and, of course, it's not sustainable. — sustainable and, of course, it's not sustainable, not _ sustainable and, of course, it's not sustainable, not for— sustainable and, of course, it's not sustainable, not for palestinians i sustainable and, of course, it's not sustainable, not for palestinians ini sustainable, not for palestinians in a very— sustainable, not for palestinians in a very israetis _ sustainable, not for palestinians in a very israelis. the _ sustainable, not for palestinians in a very israelis. the only— sustainable, not for palestinians in a very israelis. the only way- sustainable, not for palestinians in a very israelis. the only way out i sustainable, not for palestinians in a very israelis. the only way out is| a very israelis. the only way out is the political— a very israelis. the only way out is the political solution _ a very israelis. the only way out is the political solution that - a very israelis. the only way out is the political solution that israel. the political solution that israel has been — the political solution that israel has been led _ the political solution that israel has been led to— the political solution that israel has been led to believe - the political solution that israel has been led to believe it - the political solution that israel has been led to believe it can. has been led to believe it can wait for all— has been led to believe it can wait for all of— has been led to believe it can wait for all of these _ has been led to believe it can wait for all of these years. _ for all of these years. rachel, _ for all of these years. rachel, i_ for all of these years. rachel, i will- for all of these years. rachel, i will not - for all of these years. rachel, i will not let. for all of these years. i rachel, i will not let you for all of these years. - rachel, i will not let you sit for all of these years. _ rachel, i will not let you sit there and say that my country is not an honest broker. it’s and say that my country is not an honest broker.— and say that my country is not an honest broker._ don't - and say that my country is not ani honest broker._ don't say honest broker. it's not. don't say that my country _ honest broker. it's not. don't say that my country isn't _ honest broker. it's not. don't say that my country isn't an - honest broker. it's not. don't say that my country isn't an honest i that my country isn't an honest broker. the united states of america has been a weekend of freedom around the world and has continued to do so. you might disagree with the course of action, but don't you dare say that my chemistry is not a fair one. if say that my chemistry is not a fair one. . , say that my chemistry is not a fair one-_ excuse _ say that my chemistry is not a fair one._ excuse me, - say that my chemistry is not a fair one._ excuse me, i - say that my chemistry is not a fair one._ excuse me, i go l one. ifi may... excuse me, i go back to the — one. ifi may... excuse me, i go back to the accords _ one. ifi may... excuse me, i go back to the accords with... - one. ifi may... excuse me, i go back to the accords with... the | one. ifi may... excuse me, i go - back to the accords with... the camp david accords, trying to find peace with presidentjimmy carter knesset don't you dare insult my country and say that we are not an honest broker. i refused to sit here and allow you to say that, it makes me very angry that you have the audacity to say that. period. if i ma , audacity to say that. period. if i may, having served in the us government until less than two months — government until less than two months ago, i think the us has been a weekend _ months ago, i think the us has been a weekend of freedom around the world _ a weekend of freedom around the world i_ a weekend of freedom around the world. i think the us has done an immense — world. i think the us has done an immense amount of good, however when it comes _ immense amount of good, however when it comes to— immense amount of good, however when it comes to israel, we are not an honest— it comes to israel, we are not an honest broker. we do not hold a threat _ honest broker. we do not hold a threat to— honest broker. we do not hold a threat to the same standard on human rights _ threat to the same standard on human rights as— threat to the same standard on human rights as we _ threat to the same standard on human rights as we hold other countries. we do _ rights as we hold other countries. we do not — rights as we hold other countries. we do not conduct the same human rights _ we do not conduct the same human rights vetting for israeli forces as we conduct for other countries and partners — we conduct for other countries and partners i— we conduct for other countries and partners. i think there is a gap year— partners. i think there is a gap year and — partners. i think there is a gap year and if— partners. i think there is a gap year and if we are to move forward we have _ year and if we are to move forward we have to — year and if we are to move forward we have to acknowledge it honestly. can you _ we have to acknowledge it honestly. can you expect —— except that bit that they maybe don't apply the same standards? ., ., ., ._ �* standards? hard for me to say. i'm not a diplomat. _ standards? hard for me to say. i'm not a diplomat, and _ standards? hard for me to say. i'm not a diplomat, and for _ standards? hard for me to say. i'm not a diplomat, and for one - standards? hard for me to say. i'm not a diplomat, and for one who i standards? hard for me to say. i'ml not a diplomat, and for one who has actually served in government for over16 actually served in government for over 16 years and proudly so, as he had served in our government, each region of the world brings its own challenges, but i refuse to sit here and say that america is coddling the israelis or america is taking sides. america is trying to achieve peace in the middle east, but i will not sit here and allow individuals to insult a country. i won't sit for it. .. if insult a country. i won't sit for it-_ if you _ insult a country. i won't sit for it._ if you have - insult a country. i won't sit for it._ if you have the i insult a country. i won't sit for. it._ if you have the same it. rachel... if you have the same concern for _ it. rachel... if you have the same concern for palestinian _ it. rachel... if you have the same concern for palestinian lives - it. rachel... if you have the same concern for palestinian lives as i it. rachel... if you have the same| concern for palestinian lives as we do for— concern for palestinian lives as we do for israeli lives, we would not be running — do for israeli lives, we would not be running thousands and thousands of bombs _ be running thousands and thousands of bombs into this conflict at this time _ of bombs into this conflict at this time. it— of bombs into this conflict at this time. ., , . ., ., ., , ., time. it does create huge amounts of anter, time. it does create huge amounts of anaer, this time. it does create huge amounts of anger. this story- _ time. it does create huge amounts of anger, this story. it _ time. it does create huge amounts of anger, this story. it is _ time. it does create huge amounts of anger, this story. it is an _ anger, this story. it is an immensely divisive issue what is going on in the middle east. what about the way that the united states would be seen in the middle east? because it has a number of allies in that region, strong allies in that region who have spoken out very strongly about what is going on. what do you make of that? i think president biden _ what do you make of that? i think president biden needs _ what do you make of that? i think president biden needs to - what do you make of that? i think president biden needs to pay - what do you make of that? i think president biden needs to pay veryi president biden needs to pay very close _ president biden needs to pay very close attention _ president biden needs to pay very close attention to _ president biden needs to pay very close attention to that _ president biden needs to pay very close attention to that because i president biden needs to pay veryl close attention to that because the reputationat — close attention to that because the reputational damage _ close attention to that because the reputational damage in— close attention to that because the reputational damage in the - close attention to that because the reputational damage in the middle| reputational damage in the middle east is _ reputational damage in the middle east is immense. _ reputational damage in the middle east is immense. the _ reputational damage in the middle east is immense. the region- reputational damage in the middle east is immense. the region is- east is immense. the region is fuming — east is immense. the region is fuming over— east is immense. the region is fuming over what _ east is immense. the region is fuming over what is _ east is immense. the region isi fuming over what is happening, east is immense. the region is- fuming over what is happening, and it is worth _ fuming over what is happening, and it is worth saying _ fuming over what is happening, and it is worth saying that _ fuming over what is happening, and it is worth saying that populations l it is worth saying that populations around _ it is worth saying that populations around the — it is worth saying that populations around the world, _ it is worth saying that populations around the world, in— it is worth saying that populations around the world, in the - it is worth saying that populations around the world, in the uk, - it is worth saying that populations around the world, in the uk, for. around the world, in the uk, for instance. — around the world, in the uk, for instance. you _ around the world, in the uk, for instance, you know, _ around the world, in the uk, for instance, you know, the - around the world, in the uk, for- instance, you know, the government supports _ instance, you know, the government supports us. — instance, you know, the government supports us. uk_ instance, you know, the government supports us, uk action, _ instance, you know, the government supports us, uk action, sorry, - supports us, uk action, sorry, israeli _ supports us, uk action, sorry, israeli action, _ supports us, uk action, sorry, israeli action, but _ supports us, uk action, sorry, israeli action, but the - supports us, uk action, sorry, israeli action, but the vast - israeli action, but the vast majority— israeli action, but the vast majority of— israeli action, but the vast majority of the _ israeli action, but the vast majority of the population| israeli action, but the vast i majority of the population is israeli action, but the vast - majority of the population is in favour— majority of the population is in favour of— majority of the population is in favour of a _ majority of the population is in favour of a cease—fire. - majority of the population is in - favour of a cease—fire. populations around _ favour of a cease—fire. populations around the — favour of a cease—fire. populations around the world _ favour of a cease—fire. populations around the world can _ favour of a cease—fire. populations around the world can see - favour of a cease—fire. populations around the world can see the - favour of a cease—fire. populations. around the world can see the reality of what _ around the world can see the reality of what is _ around the world can see the reality of what is going _ around the world can see the reality of what is going on, _ around the world can see the reality of what is going on, the _ of what is going on, the disproportionate - of what is going on, the disproportionate loss i of what is going on, the disproportionate loss of of what is going on, the - disproportionate loss of life of palestinians. _ disproportionate loss of life of palestinians. there _ disproportionate loss of life of palestinians. there is- disproportionate loss of life of palestinians. there is no- palestinians. there is no justification— palestinians. there is no justification for- palestinians. there is no justification for that. - palestinians. there is no. justification for that. there palestinians. there is no- justification for that. there is no justification— justification for that. there is no justification on— justification for that. there is no justification on earth, _ justification for that. there is no justification on earth, including i justification on earth, including israet's — justification on earth, including israet's right— justification on earth, including israel's right to _ justification on earth, including israel's right to self—defense . justification on earth, including l israel's right to self—defense for the wholesale _ israel's right to self—defense for the wholesale slaughter- israel's right to self—defense for the wholesale slaughter of- israel's right to self—defense for. the wholesale slaughter of civilian life that _ the wholesale slaughter of civilian life that we — the wholesale slaughter of civilian life that we are _ the wholesale slaughter of civilian life that we are seeing _ the wholesale slaughter of civilian life that we are seeing in- the wholesale slaughter of civilian life that we are seeing in the - the wholesale slaughter of civilian life that we are seeing in the gaza strip _ life that we are seeing in the gaza stri -. ., ., , life that we are seeing in the gaza stri. ., , , strip. even if hamas puts... even if hamas is hiding _ strip. even if hamas puts... even if hamas is hiding within _ strip. even if hamas puts... even if hamas is hiding within civilian - hamas is hiding within civilian infrastructure, that's the point the israeli government makes, is that if there was a cease—fire, that doesn't mean that hamas is going to stop. it is still going to keep coming after israel. it's going after them in civilian areas, secretary of state makes the point, i'm not saying i agree with him, but he makes the point that they are doing as much as they can to limit civilian casualties in the context of the way hamas fights. one at a time, josh, come in on that stoppage is very quickly. i don't know how you can say they are doing everything they can when they are using 2000... while i don't say it, the secretary of state says it._ of state says it. writes, and i don't know — of state says it. writes, and i don't know how _ of state says it. writes, and i don't know how he _ of state says it. writes, and i don't know how he can - of state says it. writes, and i l don't know how he can say that of state says it. writes, and i - don't know how he can say that when israet— don't know how he can say that when israet is _ don't know how he can say that when israel is using £2000 bombs that we have provided and densely populated civilian _ have provided and densely populated civilian areas. israel has massive problems— civilian areas. israel has massive problems here in terms of the personality. they have the ability to more — personality. they have the ability to more precisely target time and of course _ to more precisely target time and of course the _ to more precisely target time and of course the answer here remains a political _ course the answer here remains a political solution.— political solution. that is one as - ect political solution. that is one aspect to _ political solution. that is one aspect to this _ political solution. that is one aspect to this that _ political solution. that is one aspect to this that concerns i political solution. that is one - aspect to this that concerns people is that some of the weapons that the israelis are dropping in very built up israelis are dropping in very built up civilian areas are bombs that the americans would not have used in civilian areas in iraq. i americans would not have used in civilian areas in iraq.— civilian areas in iraq. i completely a . ree civilian areas in iraq. i completely agree with _ civilian areas in iraq. i completely agree with that. _ civilian areas in iraq. i completely agree with that. it _ civilian areas in iraq. i completely agree with that. it also _ civilian areas in iraq. i completely agree with that. it also i - civilian areas in iraq. i completely agree with that. it also i would i civilian areas in iraq. i completely| agree with that. it also i would say that hamas, it has been demonstrated, and certainly the idf has spoken to this, of putting hamas leadership underneath hospitals, putting hamas leadership in schools, putting hamas leadership in schools, putting them in areas where they are putting them in areas where they are putting their own civilian population at risk. look, i'm a domestic policy adviser, not a military guy, per se, domestic policy adviser, not a military guy, perse, but domestic policy adviser, not a military guy, per se, but the one word that we haven't uttered in this conversation is iran, iran is the worlds largest state sponsor of terrorism. when you look at hezbollah in the north of israel, you've got hamas and the gaza strip and you look at that region of the world, why aren't we talking about how it can be contained iran so that we don't have this tinderbox in the middle east. i don't want any civilians to die. i don't believe in war. but that is the one issue that has off the table. why don't we talk about iran? . . has off the table. why don't we talk about "an?— about iran? this is the point that we talk about _ about iran? this is the point that we talk about the _ about iran? this is the point that we talk about the united states i we talk about the united states being an honest broker and whether it is or whether it isn't, but i ran, for 20—30 years now has been a state sponsor of notjust one proxy but multiple proxies in that region which perpetuates the conflict. but what on earth have the past and is living _ what on earth have the past and is living in_ what on earth have the past and is living in gaza _ what on earth have the past and is living in gaza have _ what on earth have the past and is living in gaza have to _ what on earth have the past and is living in gaza have to do _ what on earth have the past and is living in gaza have to do with - what on earth have the past and is| living in gaza have to do with iran? isn't living in gaza have to do with iran? isn't how— living in gaza have to do with iran? isn't how mice _ living in gaza have to do with iran? isn't how mice and _ living in gaza have to do with iran? isn't how mice and iranian- living in gaza have to do with iran? isn't how mice and iranian backedi isn't how mice and iranian backed proxy? isn't how mice and iranian backed rox ? �* ., ., isn't how mice and iranian backed rox ? ~ ., ., ., isn't how mice and iranian backed rox ? �* ., ., ., ,': proxy? again, what have the 2.3 million people — proxy? again, what have the 2.3 million people in _ proxy? again, what have the 2.3 million people in gaza, - proxy? again, what have the 2.3 million people in gaza, half- proxy? again, what have the 2.3 million people in gaza, half of i proxy? again, what have the 2.3 i million people in gaza, half of whom are children. — million people in gaza, half of whom are children, half— million people in gaza, half of whom are children, half of _ million people in gaza, half of whom are children, half of them _ million people in gaza, half of whom are children, half of them weren't i are children, half of them weren't even _ are children, half of them weren't even born— are children, half of them weren't even born the _ are children, half of them weren't even born the last _ are children, half of them weren't even born the last time _ are children, half of them weren't even born the last time hamas i are children, half of them weren't i even born the last time hamas won a democratic— even born the last time hamas won a democratic election, _ even born the last time hamas won a democratic election, which, - even born the last time hamas won a democratic election, which, by the i democratic election, which, by the way, _ democratic election, which, by the way. the _ democratic election, which, by the way. the us— democratic election, which, by the way, the us instantly— democratic election, which, by the way, the us instantly vetoed - democratic election, which, by the way, the us instantly vetoed and i way, the us instantly vetoed and disqualified, _ way, the us instantly vetoed and disqualified, despite _ way, the us instantly vetoed and disqualified, despite it— way, the us instantly vetoed and disqualified, despite it being i way, the us instantly vetoed and disqualified, despite it being a i disqualified, despite it being a free and — disqualified, despite it being a free and fair— disqualified, despite it being a free and fair election. - disqualified, despite it being a free and fair election. what i disqualified, despite it being a . free and fair election. what have they got— free and fair election. what have they got to — free and fair election. what have they got to do _ free and fair election. what have they got to do with _ free and fair election. what have they got to do with any- free and fair election. what have they got to do with any of- free and fair election. what have they got to do with any of this? i they got to do with any of this? what _ they got to do with any of this? what ever— they got to do with any of this? what ever you _ they got to do with any of this? what ever you say _ they got to do with any of this? what ever you say about - they got to do with any of this? what ever you say about that l what ever you say about that geopolitics. _ what ever you say about that geopolitics, we _ what ever you say about that geopolitics, we are _ what ever you say about that geopolitics, we are looking . what ever you say about that| geopolitics, we are looking at what ever you say about that i geopolitics, we are looking at 2.3 million _ geopolitics, we are looking at 2.3 million people _ geopolitics, we are looking at 2.3 million people living _ geopolitics, we are looking at 2.3 million people living in _ geopolitics, we are looking at 2.3 million people living in gaza - geopolitics, we are looking at 2.3 million people living in gaza who| million people living in gaza who have _ million people living in gaza who have been— million people living in gaza who have been under— million people living in gaza who have been under siege _ million people living in gaza who have been under siege in - million people living in gaza who have been under siege in a - million people living in gaza who. have been under siege in a sealed strip for— have been under siege in a sealed strip for 16 — have been under siege in a sealed strip for 16 years. _ have been under siege in a sealed strip for 16 years. most _ have been under siege in a sealed strip for 16 years. most of whom i have been under siege in a sealed . strip for 16 years. most of whom are refugees— strip for 16 years. most of whom are refugees from — strip for 16 years. most of whom are refugees from recognised _ strip for 16 years. most of whom are refugees from recognised borders . strip for 16 years. most of whom are| refugees from recognised borders of israet. _ refugees from recognised borders of israet. because— refugees from recognised borders of israet. because it— refugees from recognised borders of israel, because it is _ refugees from recognised borders of israel, because it is part— refugees from recognised borders of israel, because it is part of- refugees from recognised borders of israel, because it is part of a - refugees from recognised borders of israel, because it is part of a very. israel, because it is part of a very tohg _ israel, because it is part of a very tohg military— israel, because it is part of a very long military occupation. - israel, because it is part of a very long military occupation. that i israel, because it is part of a very long military occupation. that is i long military occupation. that is that thing — long military occupation. that is that thing etut— long military occupation. that is that thin. �* ., long military occupation. that is that thing-— long military occupation. that is that thin. �* ., . ., ., that thing. but how... josh, how do ou fiuht that thing. but how... josh, how do you fight an — that thing. but how... josh, how do you fight an organisation _ that thing. but how... josh, how do you fight an organisation that i that thing. but how... josh, how do you fight an organisation that is i you fight an organisation that is prescribed as a terrorist organisation that has some 500 miles of tunnels underneath the gaza strip with civilians living above when they fire rockets at israel and people can't live in southern israel, what do you do about that? first of all, i think your former guest — first of all, i think your former guest was _ first of all, i think your former guest was right that iran is a problem _ guest was right that iran is a problem. it's not the central problem _ problem. it's not the central problem here. ithink problem. it's not the central problem here. i think the central issue _ problem here. i think the central issue here — problem here. i think the central issue here is occupation, we talk about— issue here is occupation, we talk about people not being able to live there. _ about people not being able to live there. for— about people not being able to live there, for crying out loud, ten miles— there, for crying out loud, ten miles south, there is nothing left of the _ miles south, there is nothing left of the cities. we need to take that evenhanded more applied approach and look evenhanded more applied approach and took at _ evenhanded more applied approach and took at the _ evenhanded more applied approach and look at the basic humanity of the people _ look at the basic humanity of the people who are suffering right now when _ people who are suffering right now when you — people who are suffering right now when you ask how do you fight thomas? — when you ask how do you fight thomas? yes, that is request to arms in some _ thomas? yes, that is request to arms in some circumstances, particularly when _ in some circumstances, particularly when there — in some circumstances, particularly when there is a ticking bomb threat. but when _ when there is a ticking bomb threat. but when you are asking about how do you defeat _ but when you are asking about how do you defeat thomas? the answer is they're _ you defeat thomas? the answer is they're providing the palestinian people _ they're providing the palestinian people but the sovereignty, the rights. — people but the sovereignty, the rights, the safety and the peace that they — rights, the safety and the peace that they deserve. that is how you defeat _ that they deserve. that is how you defeat thomas. gk, that they deserve. that is how you defeat thomas.— show you the live shot of the situation at the white house. we are waiting for president zelensky and president biden to come out and talk to us. the discussion was so good, so he did, so interesting on all sides that we thought we would do away with that, but to the panel, lovely to talk to you all, thank you for being with us. we will be back with you the same time tomorrow. have a good evening. hello from the bbc sport centre. well it's the last chance saloon and manchester united look to be on their way out of the champions league and almost certainly out of europe as a whole. they needed a victory over bayern munich at old trafford, as well as a draw between fc copenhagen and galatasaray, but united went into the game following a 3—0 home defeat to bournemouth..and held bayern at bay until kingsley coman scored in the second half. there's just a few minutes left with copenhagen bearing galatasaray 1—0 elsewhere, meaning united would finish bottom of the group. arsenal's place in the last 16 as group winnners was already secure as they travelled to the netherlands to take on psv eindhoven. and it was honours even. the gunners took the lead a few minutes before half time with eddie nketiah's smart finish. that one his first ever champions league goal. but the lead was cancelled outjust after the restart as psv�*s yorbe vertessen equalised with a fabulous striker. it finished 1—1, with both sides heading through to the knockout stages. lets bring you up to date with the other games on tuesda, and staying in arsenal and psv�*s group. lens will be heading to the europa league after they beat sevilla 2—1. while over in group a, the surprise package of the group stages, fc copenhagen joining bayern munich in the last 16 courtesy of their win at home to galatasaray. that one has finished now. so they will be joining them. in group c napoli go through with real madrid. worth noting that napoli's second goal was scored by the newly crowned african footballer of the year victor osimhen. in the club world cup, the saudi side al—ittihad beat new zealand club auckland city as they reached the second round of the competition. after taking the lead through romarinho, n'golo kante let rip with this rocket; his second goal for al—ittihad sincejoining injul. shortly afterwards, karim benezema added his name to the history books becoming the first player to score in four separate editions of the tournament. the final whistle signalling the end of the road for auckland city. as for al—ittihad, they'll play against egyptian side al ahly on friday. turkish football bosses have suspended all leagues in the country indefinitely following an incident in a top flight game, where a referee was punched to the ground, by a club president on monday. referee halil umut meler was struck by faruk koja the president of super lig side ankarguju who ran onto the pitch after his side conceded a 97th minute equaliser against chay—kur rizespor. koca and two others were formally arrested for "injuring a public official". meler was called in his hospital bed by the turkish president on tuesday. doctors confirmed he'd suffered a fractured eye socket. violence against referees has been a growing issue in the uk as well. however, there are campaigns in place from the elite game down to the grassroots. former english official keith hackett gave us his thoughts on the incident in turkey. and his concerns about football closer to home. i was really, really shocked. i mean, you know, this is a fee for referee. this is a game at the elite level where you would expect some modicum of security that would prevent this. watching the brutality, you have to say, this is not anything to do with football, not anything to do with football, not anything to do with the referee decision. this guy has got to be banned for life from football. this guy is a complete and utter disgrace. the turkish fa must be hanging their head in shame because this is a president of a football club. he's not a fan, he is someone in authority that should be setting an example, and where behaviour goes over the top and out of control, then i think that's up to the authorities and in some cases the police to deal with that. this is a referee, 37 years old, fee for official regarded very highly, and i understand this morning he is considering whether he should continue as a referee. that is so, so sad. time to tell you that in crickets, west indies have won the toss and put england into back in the first t20 in barbados. you can follow all the action on the bbc sport website and the app, of course. from me and the rest of the team, goodbye. good evening. we've had no shortage of wet weather over the last few days, but things do lookjust a little bit drier over the next few days as this area of low pressure begins to journey away from our shores, moving eastwards out into continental europe. still close enough, though, in the short term to drive some persistent rain across parts of south east scotland, north east england, quite windy here as well through the evening and overnight. could be enough rain for some localised flooding. a bit of snow mixing in, you'll notice, over high ground there in scotland. generally through the night, england and wales will keep a lot of cloud and some showery rain. but for northern ireland and a good part of scotland, the skies will clear and for some there will be a touch of frost, particularly in northern scotland. we could see lows of minus three in the highlands, milderfurther south where we keep more cloud but into tomorrow, as our area of low pressure journeys eastwards, we'll be left on the back edge of that low, with more of a northeasterly wind bringing a colder feel. certainly nothing exceptional for this point in december, but a slightly chillier day. a lot of cloud and some showery rain for central and eastern parts of england, western england, wales seeing some sunshine and northern ireland and scotland actually should have a mostly dry and mostly sunny day, but quite a cold one in place four degrees there in aberdeen, nine in cardiff. we could get to ten in the south west of england and the channel islands. now, in this slice of clear sky here, we will see some quite cold conditions developing for a time on wednesday night into thursday. but then this band of rain moves its way in from the west and behind it we get into westerly winds, really quite strong winds actually in the north of scotland, a few showers, but a lot of dry weather and things begin to turn just a little bit milder. now, as we get into friday, i think these mild south—westerly winds will start to deliver quite a lot of mist and murk and low cloud, some bits and pieces of showery rain, particularly in the northwest of scotland. best of the sunshine towards the southeast of england. still a little bit chilly in eastern areas, but milder out towards the west. that's a sign of things to come into the weekend. split weather fortunes. this area of high pressure builds strongly across the south. further north, frontal systems bringing a bit of rain into the north of scotland, particularly strong winds, but mild winds, those winds coming from the south or the southwest. so that is going to bring a mild feel to proceedings over the weekend, most places into double digits, but it will be rather cloudy with some rain in the north of the uk. plan for asylum seekers as he heads off a tory revolt. the ayes to the right, 313. the noes to the left, 269. cheering so the rwanda plan survives for now, and rishi sunak can afford himself a smile and a sigh of relief. the un general assembly votes overwhelmingly for a ceasefire in gaza — as the humanitarian crisis there deepens. ukraine's president at the white house — he tells president biden if amercia fails to give ukraine more military aid — it would be a christmas present for vladimir putin. we talk to the man who uncovered the thefts at the british museum. and more misery for manchester united as they exit the champions league — following defeat to bayern munich. and on newsnight at 10:30... we'll go deeper behind the headlines and speak live to key players on today's big stories. plus, a first look at tomorrow's front pages. good evening. the prime minister has won a crucial vote in parliament on his plan to send some asylum seekers to rwanda — despite threats of a rebellion from the right of his party. rishi sunak spent the day trying to persuade conservative mps to back him.