Im stephen sackur. Not so long ago, british food was the laughing stock of the world it bland, stodgy and flavourless. But how things have changed. Today, the nation seems obsessed with cooking and baking on tv and fine dining. My my guess today is one of the new breed of top celebrity television chefs, Marcus Wareing. Yes, we are now obsessed with good food, but is that altogether healthy . Marcus wareing, welcome to hardtalk. There are an awful lot of ships in the world, but only a very few elite, top chefs shifts. What distinguishes the very best from the rest . I think first of all the mindset, its a work ethic and i think there is a type of sacrifice that a top chef has and wants to sort of drive themselves individually and as an individual to excel head and shoulders above everybody else. A lot of advice that ive ever had through the years going through the ranks was. And it came from my father originally, was to stand out from the crowd and to do that you need to do Something Different. Most of the great chefs around the world started as apprentices to other great chefs and if we look at your cv, you worked with albert rood, you obviously famously worked a lot with gordon ramsay, both in their different ways great chefs. Did you acquire skills and knowledge directly from them . Without a doubt your travels, you are working in kitchens and that is the foundation as a chef. The most important thing about trying to be a good chef or someone who is going to bea good chef or someone who is going to be a little bit different is working with some of the best chefs. When you work through all the different kitchens, you are inspired, energised, but also gathering knowledge, education and discipline. They are leaders of examples and leaders of their industry and they have something to offer. They may not talk to you every day, they may not talk to you every day, they may not tell you an idea or recipe, but you have to get into their kitchens and feed off their energy, like a big that tree that you are sucking everything out of battery. This story while the train, you go and train more, you go and train in a little kitchen, put that information ona little kitchen, put that information on a shelf and when you become a head chef you bring it all down and use all of that experience. Ive got, as it happens, your menus from last night here at marcus, your flagship two michelin star restau ra nt. Flagship two michelin star restaurant. Therefore, looking at this, it all looks delicious, i notice a very big emphasis on british produce. Yes. You know, from starters of wood pigeon, portland crab and glazed ox tongue with dorset snails, true to your mains. Third week lamb, cumbrian veal, grouse, all of this very british. This who am i question, what are your menus saying about who you are . At my restaurants, and the way in which Industries Change and farthing and the way we receive our produce, farming and the way we receive oui farming and the way we receive our produce, i look at the uk as my local community food. Because i can put and order in this morning from scotla nd put and order in this morning from scotland and get it tomorrow. Things move quickly. So local, uk, and then i spread further afield into europe for different types of produce that are better orfarmed better for different types of produce that are better or farmed better or taste better and we are always searching for something really nice. But i dont like to go too far across the world to gather food produce. So this idea of food miles matters to you . I think so. This idea of food miles matters to you . Ithink so. Now in this idea of food miles matters to you . I think so. Now in the world winning the big f or that we arent purchasing to mark from all over the world. I purchasing to mark from all over the world. I dont need to put in certain things into this menu because its not really a reflection on me asa because its not really a reflection on me as a person. Ive never trained in lots of different cuisines, but i will never experiment with them on my menu. So the reflection of the menu and the ingredients youve talked about are about a local life from the north west of england, using the produce from this country. The phrase a local lad from southport, wasnt it, with their dad who was a market trader. Its a great story. Does it sit uneasily with you in anyway . That here we are, in a posh, expensive part of london, and all this fabulous food you are serving comes at a price. Youre tasting menu is £120, roughly 140, your a la ca rte menu is £120, roughly 140, your a la carte dish i imagine a main would be about £60, £70. Just a bit less than that. These are big numbers and out of reach for most people. For a local lad from south port, does that bother you . It doesnt, because i think it is not about allman being equal, its about a matter of choice andi equal, its about a matter of choice and i think what we do offer is choice and there are tasty menus, a la ca rte choice and there are tasty menus, a la carte menus, but there are also very good reasonable lunch menus. The wine, you can come to this restau ra nt the wine, you can come to this restaurant and spend the same amount of money on a glass of wine than you would on a good bar or pub. Its all about choice. So with the thousands of awful that we have on our menu when you come here, theres something for everybody. So i dont look at it as a rich mans room, anybody who comes to my restaurant, you can have tapwater, a glass of house wine and the lunch menu for two people and you could be out of the doorfor two people and you could be out of the door for less than £100 if you wish, but its your choice to come and spend the value that you want to spend. But isnt it nice, for a northern line to maybe come with your girlfriend or wife and come to london and do Something Different . Lad. We just london and do Something Different . Lad. Wejust happen to be in the heart of london. I sort of and am proud to have worked my way from there. It didnt arrive on a tray, it was a lot of hard work. What about food snobbery . You have two michelin stars. Not many chefs around the world do. But there is something about this whole sort of fetishisation of the michelin star which sticks in some peoples throats. Do you sometimes feel that it is the wrong way to reallyjudge the quality of food in restaurants . I dont. I think nisha michelin are very important and relevant. I think their historyjudges how important they are. They are judging chefs as a guide and they give you a point of recognition and give you an accolade. Its not something you ask for, it is given to you. Its almost a gift of your standards. But it puts you under enormous pressure. Some chefs have started saying to michelin, even if they had in the past one or two stars, they are now saying, i dont want to be part of your network. I dont want to be judged by you any more. The pressure is too constant, too immense. The things you require of us in terms of the level of service, the presentation, are just actually making as a restaurant with a want to be. I disagree. Making as a restaurant with a want to be. Idisagree. Icompletely disagree, because i dont think it is then putting the pressure on the chef, its the general public and the expectation of the general public. In the last ten years, social media has become a big part. Everybody in your restaurant now can post their of the dinner, of the experience they are eating. So i think its more than just michelin. Every person at your table is now a reviewer. Exactly. Does that scare you . No. Its a challenge, it sets standards, it even tells me what my restau ra nt standards, it even tells me what my restaurant is doing when im not here. You have to embrace technology, you have to embrace it. Evenif technology, you have to embrace it. Even if i dont like it and do it as well as the next chef, i do have a tea m well as the next chef, i do have a team of people around me who show me how to move forward. But if i look down on that process, and i looked down on that process, and i looked down and Seyi Michelin delivers pressure, then i would be a nervous wreck. You must always turn pressure into positive thinking and positive energy and enjoy yourjob. Go back to your roots. It is about those ingredients. Stop worrying about what everyone is saying. 0ne ingredients. Stop worrying about what everyone is saying. One of britains best known restaurant reviewers rebelled against the michelin spirit, the sort of smart, formal dining that it seems to encourage. He said the guide seems to be wholly out of touch with the way people now actually it will stop it is still rewarding fat, conservative, fussy rooms. Maybe he meant rooms like this, that use expensive ingredients with ingratiating pomp to serve glossy plutocrats. Is that marcus . No, absolutely not and i dont think fine dining is that. I think there are fine dining is that. I think there a re lots of fine dining is that. I think there are lots of food writers and critics may be that dont see the fund or the luxury of the enjoyment in iron dining, because its a homage to the chef and i think the world has changed and i think chefs are cooking in high street restaurants that have 20 seats and slaving away in the back of a kitchen, an open kitchen. That is as enjoyable in the days world as eating in a fine dining restaurant. Its all about what somebody wants for the occasion and if im going to set up a restau ra nt and if im going to set up a restaurant in this hotel, a 5 star hotel, it is known all over the world, theres a level of luxury have to provide and i want to provide. It strikes me that as used as you have become more successful, like many top chefs youve developed the brand and become a tv personality, the british materchef show has made you enormously popular in this country. Youve also opened up arrest one central london, are now youve got a sta ble central london, are now youve got a stable of three. It all means that you are not every single lunchtime and dinner actually in the kitchen, here at your number one restaurant, doing it yourself. It strikes me that when people come here, and as weve discussed they do pay a large amount of money for food from the restau ra nt, amount of money for food from the restaurant, they expect Marcus Wareing to be slaving away in the kitchen. I think like has changed and up untilfouryears kitchen. I think like has changed and up untilfour years ago kitchen. I think like has changed and up until four years ago when kitchen. I think like has changed and up untilfour years ago when i revamped this restaurant i was in this kitchen every single day. I never looked for television, it came and found me. I never worked up and wa nted and found me. I never worked up and wanted to write and i never needed to open two of the restaurant on top of this. I was very satisfied with what i had. Then why did you do at . Asi what i had. Then why did you do at . As i found i had some very talented people underneath me that i had to find opportunities for. And what i see is having those other restau ra nt, see is having those other restaurant, ive created opportunities for very talented people to become bosses within their own right. But what if you stretch yourself too thin . No. What if the standards at this restaurant to be honest are not quite as good when you are not here. I come back. I sit by the television and books and i do thejob by the television and books and i do the job that by the television and books and i do thejob that im paid to do, which is cook. The rest is a luxury item thatis is cook. The rest is a luxury item that is added my life. Interestingly talk about the team. Theres been a lot of discussion recently about workplace sort of temperature in top kitchens and there is a lot of discussion about, and theres no other word for it, bullying and abuse that happens in kitchens and is often driven by the character of the number one chef, which in this case would be you. Have you bullied your staff in the past . |j case would be you. Have you bullied your staff in the past . I think bullying is a word that stressed up in many ways. I was born in the 70s and bullying was something that was donein and bullying was something that was done in the playground. It was a fight, a push, verbal. I dont think that happens in kitchens. Ive never experienced it myself. Ive raised my voice, swear, shout and drive people very, very hard through a ha rd people very, very hard through a hard service. Yes. Ive had it done to me and ive done it on my staff in the past. You have been serious in incidences in kitchens. 0ne in the past. You have been serious in incidences in kitchens. One in france, where a station chef deliberately and repeatedly scalded his kitchen assistant, there were others that came into light after that with sous chefs and assistance recounting tales, it sounds absurd but its not, including a slap in the face with a wet fish, being stabbed in the calves with a kitchen knife, all sorts of different incidents, the burning incident, one executed assistant told reporter in france, quote, these torturers must be told that they are destroying lives. What the heck is going on in some of these kitchens . lives. What the heck is going on in some of these kitchens . I think these are very few incidences that are overshadowing a fabulous industry that is bigger than a handful of incidents or many, many more. There are millions of people working in our industry and thousands and thousands of kitchens just running through london alone. I think the kitchens are Pressure Cookers. What has changed, and this is something we much focus on, is kitchens have become very much open places and the chef is part of the front of service as well as the back. Chefs are now delivering food. You actually come out here in even on . Yes, we can come out and even my chefs can come out and speak to customers. What has changed is we have now neutralised the area of the kitchen. The Pressure Cook of the kitchen. The Pressure Cook of the kitchen was driven by hard core career on top of a hot stove and in the oven. It was all cooked last minute. Pseudoscience of food has allowed us to change the way we cook, we are taking some training out of our young chefs to make the job easier. So the science. Because theres so much choice and so few people want to necessarily work in our industry. Maybe thats because you dont pay enough as well. Thats wrong. We pay our staff above minimum wage. Minimum wages but the low bar. Minimum wages but the low bar. Minimum wages but the low bar. Minimum wage is a point of, if you work in 8 hour day you find it tough to survive in some of my chefs do much longer days and they can have about £30,000 which is just below a trainee chef. The average wage in the uk is £27,000 and you are saying, if they work ridiculously long hours, they might just get to that sort of threshold. You own one of the most luxurious restau ra nts a nd you own one of the most luxurious restaurants and all of london. But we are delivering a standard, this isa we are delivering a standard, this is a school of education as well as a job. And we must identify the difference. You dont enterfine dining just difference. You dont enterfine diningjusta difference. You dont enterfine dining just a job. You have to want to be here. The key thing is choice. Everybody who wakes up in this part of the western world can have a choice in life. You can get out of bed and look for a job, you can work as many hours as you like and you can pretty much never, ever be out of work that dont work in fine dining at the top end if you want an easy life because it doesnt exist. British people spend £3 billion a year on ready meals. Thats six times more than in spain. Whatever we do when we switch on the tv and watch you cooking up fine food, we go to the shop and buy a ready meal. We buy ready meals per one reason. Loud they are sitting on the shelf, available, there are more of them and people are working hard with less time and maybe dont want to cook. Schools finish later, the school run is different. Everybodys lifestyle is changing. Social media. Go to supermarkets, there is your problem of obesity and convenience. Its interesting you talk about the obesity problem and you save you believe you are part of a culture which is beginning to respect and understand food much better but you actually opposed your fellow top chefjamie actually opposed your fellow top chef jamie 0liver when he actually opposed your fellow top chefjamie 0liver when he campaigned so long and hard for a sugar tax to be put on the example the sugary drinks, the pop that so many kids still consume. You seem to think that was a very bad idea. Why . |j that was a very bad idea. Why . dont think it was a bad idea. My concern was, what are we going to do with that money . My concern is, what happens with that tax. The thing thatjamie happens with that tax. The thing that jamie 0liver has happens with that tax. The thing thatjamie 0liver has done is open people up to how we have cooked at home. Hes the one that put all the petitions together, to downing street. Campaign to the better squalid better Quality School lunches. You cantjust stop at downing street with tax. It isnt so much what we do with attacks, it is to send a price signal to people that they shouldnt be buying all of these very sweet and fizzy drinks. The price goes up a little bit. They will still buy them. Alcohol will go up in a pub. You seem to have a view that government and authorities have no role to play. You said, it is not the responsibility of government but pa rents. Responsibility of government but parents. We are all human beings who can read and write. Lets not blame the government. There are only two people to blame for the obesity crisis, mum and dad. Doesnt it start at home . Why should the government be responsible for what people purchase in the shop . Why should we hold the government responsible . They are not our teachers or guardians. They are a com pletely teachers or guardians. They are a completely different role and a hard role at that. I think they got more important things to worry about with the economy and with brexit and what they are going to do with our taxes to worry about what we are consuming at home. It breaks it worrying you asa at home. It breaks it worrying you as a restauranteur . Is brexit . Ive voted to remain. Ive learned more about rakes it. I am excited about the choice of leaving. I was shocked the morning i woke up and heard the result. After 24 hours of thinking about it, we just got to get on with this. The country has made a decision. What is the positive we can drive from leaving europe . That is that we have to potentially build our own future . Why i voted to remain was purely from the employment point of view. There are restaurateurs saying they are losing staff, there are people saying the double whammy of losing key staff who are heading for home or not applying forjobs that have become vacant from europe, the pool of talented european staff who are available to british restaurants is diminishing. But also, the pound is much weaker and its affecting you as you import some of your foodstuff is with a double whammy in some restaurateurs a re is with a double whammy in some restaurateurs are saying they will have to close. From the point of view of we purchase, the customers will get a hit on that. You have to pay your bills and wages but its interesting in not having more of the European Community coming into work and that is that we, the brits, have got to get out of bed and maybe work a bit harder and it will make us better employers. We need to change our approach a little bit more because what quality we have, we are going to have to take really good care of it. Secondly, we will have put better apprenticeship schemes in and Start Talking to the youth about exciting industries. When i was at school in college, three things stood out. Woodworker, metalwork, cookery. Also selling and all sorts of Different Things. You dont see a lot of this. We need to really get back to really Good Industries and saying its not all about going to university. Thats fine if it comes to pass but in the short run, for example, how many of your kitchen staff, the key the tea m your kitchen staff, the key the team here at marcus restaurant up other parts of the European Union . About one third. More at the lower end. What i find is that they are here for better opportunity. You probably get a better wage over here even though they might say that they dont. It is also the opportunity. Many of these folks may well over the next year or two may have to reconsider their position. We, the employers, must make some big changes. I think on a negative note, a european family coming to work with us, we need to work closely with us, we need to work closely with our schools. And create a workforce from our own pool of talent. We need to be growing our own talent now and put more emphasis on us and not relying on our european neighbours to work for us. And briefly, in terms of the produce as well. Because of the weaker pound and the more expensive produce brought in from abroad, you need to source more and more of everything you provide to customers from the uk. And thats going to make us better farmers, we need uk. And thats going to make us betterfarmers, we need to uk. And thats going to make us better farmers, we need to look at agriculture and change lots of Different Things going forward. Its going to take a long time. This will be going on way beyond my time. I do think there is a great chance for us to put the great back into Great Britain again because this is our time to live again and not a line that fabulous european flour which has been taking care of our industry to so many years because you cant deny that our european neighbours, they do bring a sense of class to our catering industry that maybe we, the brits, dont have. Weve got to find it. We have to, we have no choice. We now start to create and make our own noise in the world. Who would ever say that we would grow and make wine in this country . We are making more english wine ever. That will continue and that is a celebration. Marcus wareing, that is a great place to end. Thank you very much had been on hardtalk thank you very much for being on hardtalk well, the weather story is getting a bit messy now during the middle of the week. And although we will see cold air through the middle of the country, there is still the risk over the next few days of some snow and also further ice. And we are starting wednesday morning off with the risk of ice across scotland and england. That is because we have overnight rain moving through, falling on freezing surfaces, then skies will clear for a time during wednesday morning before the next bout of rain moves in. So this is where we will see the ice risk ahead of this next rain band. And it will be quite showery pushing into much of scotland and north west england and northern ireland, quite a messy commute to work in the morning. A lot of standing water around because there will be a little bit of snow melt as those temperatures will be a little less cold than we have had over the last few mornings. Snow will be falling over the mountains of scotland and maybe a little bit of sleetiness over the Higher Ground of wales, too. But generally speaking, it is going to be of mostly rain here, combined with the snow melt elsewhere. A lot of snow here in the last few days. There there is going to be a lot of standing water around. Dry across the east, but we have that ice risk. But then the rain across Western Areas will be spreading eastwards during the course of the day. Some heavy bursts on this as it continues to spread south eastwards but behind it the skies brighten up quite nice. Some sunshine for england and wales. But slightly colder air moves into scotland and northern ireland, so showers here increasingly wintry. But across the south, youll notice, 9 11 celsius. So, slightly milder than of late. Then, as we head through wednesday night, were looking at the next rash of showers and rain, which move through. Some of these producing a bit of snow on the Higher Ground maybe down to lower levels in the heaviest bursts. So, by thursday morning, the risk of a bit of light snow and, again, ice as temperatures fall away. So there could be a little bit of travel disruption. And then, as we head on into thursday day, it looks quite a messy picture. Quite windy, once again, plenty of showers moving into northern and Western Areas. Again, these wintry over the Higher Ground of the north. And we could even see some substantial snow across central parts of scotland through the day, so this could cause some disruption and, generally speaking, those temperatures are a bit lower than wednesday. And as that area of low pressure moves away on friday, we open the floodgates again to the arctic north, so it looks like itll be very cold to end the week. You can see the blue colours extending right across the british isles, even as far south as france and northern spain. So it means friday is going to be a cold one. Could have a little bit of ice to watch out for it in places. A few wintry showers across coastal areas but, that said, plenty of sunshine too. But you will need to wrap up, its going to be cold. This is the briefing. Im sally bundock. Our top story doug jones get the seat in a major blow to the republicans in the election in alabama. We have shown notjust around the state of alabama but we have shown the country the way that we can be unified however, the Republican Party contender, roy moore, has refused to concede defeat telling supporters to wait. And in what appears to be an olive branch from the trump administration, they say they are ready for talks with north korea. Traders around the world are waiting on the conclusion of the Federal Reserve meeting in washington where its widely