Transcripts For ALJAZ Erik Prince 20240712

Have the whole media eyes neck it is definitely not something our new morning and Atlanta Police officers have been fired for using Excessive Force on protesters riot police surrounded a car with a couple inside if you watch this footage you can see the officer slashed their tires approached their windows and tase them and they did not appear to be resisting in any way then they were pulled from the car put on the ground and handcuffed. I think is Law Enforcement if we are ever going to get out of this base that we are in today we have to recognize that our behaviors cannot consistently be pardoned because we are Law Enforcement. These these are good guys i know them as individuals ive worked with one for over 20 years. But they made that level of mistake that cannot be rolled bath. Place minneapolis have arrested several people for curfew violations they nationwide and i started there and george floyd a black man died while being restrained by a white Police Officer more than 4000 people have been arrested across the country sense thursday john hendren has more. For the 1st 4 days the protesters really ruled the night took over this city there was burning and looting of numerous buildings and then you got a 1000 extra National Guard troops to come in last night on saturday overnight and what happened then is the police really shut the protest down at a certain point and enforced the curfew once again that curfew was largely holding you can see there are cars here and there a few people on the road and we saw hundreds of protesters violating the curfew early in the evening but let me just show you something richelle at the end of that road is a line of police as we drove up toward that line they raised their rifles at us and waved for us to turn and weve had that experience all through the night you can see over here again empty streets on this side but look at the end there. Thats a bridge in on that bridge is another line of officers and all those lights are a warning if you drive up toward them the 1st thing they do is they shoot rubber bullets and then there are tear gas grenades so weve seen really aggressive action by the police and i must say its been pretty effective weve gone from thousands of protesters and some burning and looting at the end of the night early on to far fewer but those protesters day they will stay here in the day until those all 4 of the officers who were involved in the arrest of mr floyd are charged with murder and who knows how long that could be or whether that could happen after the pandemic a record 33000. 00 new khurana buyer. Infections confirmed and one day in brazil thats now right to start half a 1000000 cases and it is not even pete really 29000 people have died the 4th highest death toll in the world president terrible scenario has worse resisted rather Strict Lockdown measures. People are protesting in hong kong theyre calling for independence from china after beijing announce sweeping new security laws that many consider will in the territories autonomy activists have gathered in shopping malls and elsewhere to demonstrate. International space station has received its 1st arrivals aboard a commercial capsule and with that the hatch is open to nasa astronauts and the space x. Dragon successfully docked after blasting off on saturday that started a new era for commercial spaceflight 9 years after nasa retired the Space Shuttle fleet the new arrivals were met by 2 russians and an american so the headlines keep it on aljazeera head to head is next. It may very well be one of the most Controversial Companies in our countrys history that what do you say is being called the largest private economy in the world youre in washington convicting 4 former blackwater security guards in the 2000 my guest tonight is the controversial founder and former c. E. O. Of Blackwater Erik prince you do it move the personal cue. Bill you dont disagree that branded a war profiteer and a super mercenary by his critics princes were made over a 1000000000. 00 out of the socalled war on terror that also highlighted the clear danger of using private contractors on the battlefield and yet now back on the scene trying to privatized the war in afghanistan but offering to replace u. S. And nato troops there with his own private Security Force but were handing the war to prince really helped end it im in the house and ive come here to the oxford union to go head to head with erik prince a former navy seal and the founder of but quarter ill challenge him on war crimes in iraq his plans for a private army in afghanistan and his loyal support for President Donald Trump. Tonight ill also be joined by sean a former private military contractor former officer in the u. S. Army and author of the book the new rules of war they had an Award Winning guardian journalist from iraq whos covered conflicts across the middle east and colonel tim collins a former commander in the british army and founder of new century a private military Consulting Company. Ladies and gentlemen please welcome erik prince. Prince is currently the deputy chairman the executive director from 2 Years Services group a Hong Kong Based security and the just. Erik prince thank you for joining me on head to head. Your back in the news with a new plan to privatize basically the u. S. Led war in afghanistan but you were the founder and c. E. O. Of blackwater perhaps the worlds most notorious private Security Firm which during the iraq war became a byword for violence corruption lawlessness and yet youve never apologize for any of. I think thats an unfair characterization of the company did exactly what the u. S. Government asked us to do which was to protect diplomats reconstruction officials visiting. Un or or other congressional delegations we did more than 100000 missions no one under our care was ever killed or injured and people try to characterize the company as overly aggressive less than one half of one percent of all those missions resulted in a discharge of a firearm in an era when you had lots of violence in the capital i mean baghdad really was the center of gravity of the insurgency and so we had you know 41 of our men were lost in action doing that mission so you mentioned that the u. S. Government asked you to do a job and you did it you mention that you lost a man on your watch but you didnt mention is that you also killed a lot of people. You say what percentage is great lets talk about individual cases in 2005 blackwater guards fired 70 rounds into an iraqi civilians call forcing the state department to investigate in 2006 according to leaked pentagon documents blackwater guards fired indiscriminately iraqi civilians killing among others and ambulance driver in 2007 blackwater guards shot and killed 14 iraqi civilians in whats been called the square massacre or baghdads bloody sunday that is the rec ord that a lot of people around the world remember when they hear the name blackwater sure and when you do 100000 missions its easy to take some things out of context but remember you had many thousands of insurgents actively trying to kill americans and not just american servicemen but the most newsworthy americans their diplomats and with the state department actually the people im mentioning werent insurgents you killed your men killed a mother and son on their way to an appointment of a sentence as i mean it kills a 9 year old boy sadly head sadly the insurgents dont wear uniforms they would drive ambulances filled with explosives they would drive so you remember those they were sure to get insurgents. A car bomb doesnt give you much time to decide there was no call bowman missile square in 2007 actually right. Before mr square event there was a lot i saw a square there was no color boom scuse me less than 5 minutes before that event happened there was a large car bomb that went off where there was a protective dream of ours protecting us the idea official and sadly that that car bomb went off the team decided to move through there and a support team went to block the Traffic Circle so that. The fleeing team could move through smoothly and not be ambushed when the when the intelligence provided by the state department or u. S. Government says be on the lookout for a white kiya in all the other cars in the Traffic Circle stop except for a white kiya sadly sometimes the guys have a split 2nd to make that its almost black what to say the white kids thought of as you well know because youve discussed this far more than i have all of the eyewitnesses say that there was no white kid heading towards you the us colonel who turned up on the day said that there was no enemy activity involved he said it was a criminal event and an excessive shooting a us court of law in december prosecuted one of your men for 1st degree murder for killing his mother and. 3 others to hold on let me finish 3 other men were prosecuted for manslaughter 4 of your men murder and manslaughter in the iraqi courts u. S. Courts thats right and they prosecuted them 4 times and they finally got a conviction the 1st time it was thrown out for prosecutorial misconduct guilty they found the guilty you know the 1st time it was thrown out for prosecutorial misconduct the 2nd time it was overturned the 3rd time it was a mistrial the federal government finally got them into d. C. Sir in a d. C. Jury on the 4th time that you see jury not a legitimate jury i would say a jury of your peers does not really compare to the rest of america no thats ok ok so some juries are legitimate some socalled judges that language before but they were prosecuted for murder amounts would you have any regrets for the people who died a 9 year old boy shot in the head was an insurgent of course we did of course we we hired as the company we hired the prosecutor that prosecuted saddam to go find each of these families to pay salacious to make amends as best as possible to reach out. To them did i personally yeah i havent no i havent found all of them but we certainly apologize to the ones ive had contact with and its not just these killings and the these killings that are documented it goes beyond just god as you know blackwater got billions of dollars in u. S. Government contracts and that billions more than a 1000000000. 00 in u. S. Government contracts to an area were over 12 years and yet a scathing u. S. State Department Investigation found that blackwater quote was over billing the state department and manipulating personal records its guards were partying drinking and even crashed an armored car and saw themselves as quote above the law pretty damning the u. S. State department saying this but the company theyve given contracts to over billing and manipulating we never paid any fines for anything like that and thats a fact you paid fines for a lot of things the only thing we paid a fine for it was a elation and i gave an example of the o. T. Said the only thing you paid a fine for you paid 7500000. 00 fine and 2012 to settle 17 criminal charges you paid a full 1000000. 00 settlement are a department in 2010 for illegal arms sales. 2012 it already sold the business i sold it in 2010 but the cases go back beyond 2010 the criminal charges raided all sorts of things that went back years including south sudan you broke u. S. Sanctions to try and sell weapons to south sudan knowing going to theres no weapons in south sudan there was a proposal on the mineral you never put a proposal on table to salvage his government 100000000. 00 actually the issue there was a Satellite Phone so you did put a proposal on the table to salvage his government no wonder what the state department complained about then that was back in 2005 was a my point is an actual a very dangerous Satellite Phone the same thing you can buy and he threw dutifully we can argue about the finds just deal with this report the Us State Department said you were manipulating personal records over billing the state department and your gods were partying drinking and even crashed an armored car it was a state department best occasion in 2007. Look we employed thousands of people and i would never say that the men were perfect we didnt employ angels we employed veterans who volunteered to serve their country again in a very dangerous place and like i said 41 of them paid the ultimate cost and hundreds more were seriously wounded its amazing that when you say we didnt employ angels we employed veterans but right now you want to do it all again thats the problem is it not. Well heres the thing after after 17 years of war ok where the United States is spending more than the entire you gave to budget Defense Budget just this year and still losing in afghanistan i think its time to look at a different way i want to talk about afghanistan but just before we get to your afghan plan i just want to get to what drives you when you kind of come up with these plans to do private security especially at these muslim majority countries because you yourself have referred to the people your men were fighting in iraq as barbarians who crawled out of the sewer you say in your memoir these were the chanting barbarians american troops have been sent to liberate sure if you people that think its ok to drive a car bomb into the middle of a square in the middle market place while to attempt to kill an american and in doing so they kill dozens and dozens of civilians absolutely thats barbaric which is true i think if youre a terrorist you call them whatever you want but you said these were the chanting barbarians american troops have been sent to liberate you werent sent to liberate terrorists sounds like talk about iraq yes. Sir look this very day was for you remember the decision the decision of. The u. S. Decision to go to. Liberate iraq from Saddam Hussein who did a lot more horrid things than we can even speak of here that was certainly the intent i certainly had no role in that policy decision ok but you dont you dont believe iraq is above areas of the snow but i believe that terrorists that car bombs in the city square certainly are ok youre proposing now to privatized the u. S. Led war in afghanistan you suggested replacing almost 50000. 00 nato troops and private contractors with 2000 u. S. Special operators. And 6000. 00 contractors and you want to cut spending there you think by 30000000000. 00 a year which sounds great and i think one thing we can definitely grown as we both think the afghan war is not going well it has been a bit of a failure but given 140000 nato troops couldnt control that country would defeat the taliban back in 2011 what on earth makes you think that a few 1000 contractors are going to do it now under your command because after 911 and we take you back in the 5 days after 911 happened when president bush had a war Cabinet Meeting up at camp david the pentagon the best thing that the most expensive military in the world came with was a missile and some bombing strikes and then a conventional invasion via pakistan the following april case literally while the headquarters of the pentagon is still smoldering the best the u. S. Military came with was the most conventional and most cumbersome approach it was the cia that said money authorities the right people who were going after the taliban and that worked ok less than 100 special operators cia case officers paramilitary guys in s. F. Guys backed by air power. And they smash the taliban and they are all peoples of them but thats fine you topple them you have control of the country because more than 6000 people sure wrecked but then the United States repeated the soviet battle plan so its not i believe in battle plan that 6000 people can do what 140000 couldnt sure im not an expert on math but that seems we did well heres the thing you have 15000. 00 u. S. Troops there now theres about 7000. 00 nato and another 30000. 00 contractors so im not advocating a privatization of advocating a rationalization at a significant cost savings the way the u. S. Has been deploying there they send a unit for 7 or 8 months they spend the 1st 2 or 3 months getting to know the area and then a couple of months theyre very productive in the last month theyre ready to pack up and they lift and shipped and they go home ok and then you rinse and repeat you do that again and weve done 30 plus rotations of troops like that you know and as you have no continuity instead i would take the same special forces veterans that have been working there from the u. S. From nato and the usa and not angels. These are the same people the u. S. Military and nato has been spending sending there for the last 17 years but the difference is as a contractor they can go and attach to the same unit and live in the same valley and live and work and train and fight with those guys with afghan counterparts month after month for years so they have that continuity is that 2nd resume the Afghan Government they dont like your plan they say its a nonstarter they said under no circumstances will we allow the war to become a quote private for profit business to form afghan President Hamid karzai said even when the opposes your proposal i think you would say differently if you asked him now i literally asked his office on friday and they said the dead against it. Live talk to other people ive talked to other people his office who disagree with. The Current Office and government heres a change their position is well. Under no circumstance i doubt very much that ashraf ghani will win in the next election but youre waiting for a change of president to get your plan. Heres the thing if they dont do a plan like this if there is not a skeletal structure support supporting the Afghan Forces the next president s going to wind up like knowledgeable the did. The problem is the way you pitched it is giving was helpful to tell the afghans were going to be quote the east India Company which violently ruled india on behalf of the British Empire in the 18th and 19th centuries was it wise to talk about having a viceroy in charge of the country i mean you know hiding the fact that this is a colonialist project when you use language but heres the thing the United States has no one person thats in charge of afghan policy theres nobody that the president can turn to and say why is afghanistan after this a special envoy Zalmay Khalilzad you have sure that doesnt help he doesnt control the military his intro the intelligence funding he doesnt control but if i agree with do you think you know wanting someone to viceroy in charge of east India Company is going to go down well with brown folks. Look for 250 years that Security Model largely worked of mostly local forces with a few professional mentors only acting as a structure support but the difference is im not there as a colonial power these these these mentors are right the contractors the special forces veterans are serving as adjunct in the Afghan Forces accountable to the afghan minister of defense and of course the president if theyre flying aircraft we actually found to see the aircraft where the contractor never makes the weapons release decision it is always the afghan but he flies the plane. Safety pilot ok in 2004 in afghanistan a blackwater pilot flying a plane with u. S. Soldiers on board flew the plane into the side of a mountain he crashed the plane into the mountain killing 6 passengers on board including 3 u. S. Soldiers the captains last words blackwater employee flying the plane his last words were i swear to god they wouldnt pay me if they knew how much fun this was you were paying him eric prince said only been in the country 2 weeks have you your employees learned any lessons from that horrific incident before you go back into afghanistan sure we operated 56 aircraft there safely for many many years we flew tens of thousands of missions safely the difficult thing is when the your customer asks you or tasks you to change your route so that the colonel onboard could go view an enemy area on the way to a deviation from the planned navigation accidents happen thats right its a danger and yes there is going to end and safety board and the u. S. Military both said the blackwater providing sufficient oversight and guidance to the pilots involved in the crash the widow of that colonel says that there was gross lack of judgment in managing this company who was managing the company at that time in 2000 full i just told them the former Operations Officer of the former Operations Officer 60 the most elite Helicopter Unit in the world so you have people that definitely understand aviation were in charge of the u. S. Military the National Transportation safety board criticized your companys role in the accident and they reinstated this and we were flying missions again within 5 days of that incident gray needed a very good job Bush Administration thats got nothing to do with the culpability that your company had for the deaths of those u. S. Soldiers they didnt die at the hands of the taliban they died at the hands of blackwater they died at the hands of an accident made by a pilot flying in a very difficult area i mean blackwater executives were emailing each other at the time the email came out said by necessity the initial group hired to support the afghanistan operation did not meet the criteria identified in email traffic and had some background and experience shortfalls overlooked in favor of getting the requisite number of personnel on. Told to start up the contract youre saying internally your own companys admitting to each other these guys on experience but need to get the contract up and running is this what you want to replicate in afghanistan now the pilots flying the mission that day had come from alaska they or they were literally high country bush policies are not people that are flying in the over the swamps of florida they were flying on when you were executives emailing each other saying that we have experience shortfalls but we need to get the contract up and running what were they saying that because the transportation because the Army Material command was demanding the missions to support the missions heres the families felt no no no no trying to serve a customer in a very difficult place we flew tens of thousands in hundreds of thousands of missions after that safely and no incidents ok lets go to our panel here in the oxford union sean mcfate is a former private military contractor former officer in the u. S. Army a professor at georgetown author of the book the new rules of war surely youve said u. S. Generals have loft at erics plan for afghanistan youve called it unworkable and even magical thinking why blackwater if this was a Job Interview i would not give you the contract because blackwater was simply a body guard shop in iraq youve never raised or deployed a military like youre advertising now i have in places and it takes hold its a lot more sophisticated than just mentors in the field it doesnt quite up to Political Leadership in kabul and they have already the message that they dont support this this is a dead deal in my opinion well and that youre mistaken because we built the entire Afghan Border police it was 15000 people we did all the recruiting the training the vetting and we actually had mentors that went the field with them and the success rate of these units when our guys were allowed to go with them effectively is training wheels their success rate went very very high and it worked ok so you know i guess im the only guy that can say ive had 56 of my own aircraft in country doing that kind of work for the u. S. Military ok Ghaith Abdulahad is an Award Winning guardian journalist. From iraq youve covered conflicts in iraq afghanistan yemen and beyond gate how do the iraqi people remember blackwater and erik prince in your view i mean its amazing to kind of sit here and listen to eric and speak of a block or so in the services they did in iraq because the word blackwater is synonymous with the worst of the American Occupation of iraq that is not a single iraqi that i you know i mean im one of those barbarians that was liberated by a country but there is not a single who would you just mention the word black was as to who would not say corruption violence and im not talking only about the messiah square kind of massacre but im talking about the whole 10 years of the existence of these muslims and i think part of the failure of the american against project an era was due to the using of the continent is it not is a major problem that you could concede that even if your plan is a good one you shouldnt be the one doing it given the legacy youve left behind with certainly here is the thing your your math is a little skewed because the us didnt invade iraq till 2003 i sold the company in 2010 so thats certainly not 10 years the company and the company traveling what we we tracked all the vehicles where everybody was moving ok and there is dozens and dozens of times that it was brought up there was a blackwater event here blackwater went there and we didnt have people within 200 kilometers of that location the sad thing is blackwater became likely next it became winded you know why because you became this because what we were the largest one doing you know because you were very worthwhile mission is the reason i mean you gave the work i mean in iraq now or in yemen or any of these places they dont use the word contractors something they use blackwater in yemen in whatever in somalia they dont use mercenaries ok so youve been in afghanistan reaches well over if youre able to do the afghans will welcome this plan eric is putting on the table. Ive met as administrator an officer high Security Officials of the count of one of the stray sions opposition and some of your own friends in afghanistan and all agree on one thing its not going to work and i agree with you totally the 17 years have been to 2 ways the fall of the you know copy. The soviet plan this is something we agree on however were not getting government officials you know talking to the minister youre talking to all the letter either mistaken i meet with dozens of afghan officials both in and out of the government from all over the country be they go tajik and uzbek and pasha and the warlords right all the people that are going to be voting in the afghan allies so were going to get American Life on mars in one more level we need to come in colonel tim collins is here tim you once commanded british troops during iraq you gave that famous speech that a lot of us remember in 2004 you quit the army and founded new century a private minter Consulting Company how would you evaluate what happened on his watch whats the hold it a different thing i think what we have to remember and indeed ive discussed this with that many times with the u. S. State department the u. S. Military asked for services they encouraged they were enthusiastic to a point of hysteria that blackwater go into these missions when it went wrong they ran a mile and so you have to look at those people and say at a point where there was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff were visiting the facility and encouraging more and more of these services to be privatized and that all it and when things went wrong they turned their back on you saying the prince about what was scapegoated by the u. S. Government well i think that as a result of the rather expensive court case that youve been through i think that was the conclusion in the end is that the criticism i as a contractor would level is that blackwater and the organization probably grew too fast there was people who went initially. Who were of the highest delta force. 6160 some of the people who were coming in at the end of nowhere near and its a question of who supervising them because the people when we look at them who were in court and convicted were not of that quality were not of that hugh how did they get there how did they get there while were hearing poor quality circle toward the end of your beat in iraq well because theres literally not enough delta force or seal team 6 or even seals for that matter to do that mission go to marine infantry or Army Infantry the one fair characterization that i will say is blackwater did 2 types of missions you work for the state department they dictated you must drive a polished wax to suburban a big s. U. V. Armored 11000 pounds lights and sirens down the road and when you drive the same route every day that the state Department Tells you to its very easy for the enemy to set up an ambush you keep saying in gauge when ambushes just to be clear for the audience one study found that you black hole to open fire 1st in 84 percent of the shootings is a little defensive because youre. Ok but its not just a matter of the enemy opening fire with a firearm to attack they open fire with a trigger switch and they drive up to you and destroy you mean literally but theres also you know millions drawing as its 9 year old children taken away to work whether its hamas in palestine in pakistan afghanistan or iraq bad guys like ambulances with explosives and kill innocent people not in the cases i cited were going to take a break in part 2 were going to talk to erik prince about some of his work in china and his relationship with the trumpet ministration and were going to hear from a very patient audience here in the oxford union join us for part 2. Of the more than a decade of civil war life remains a challenge in sierra leone. We followed the citizens of this war torn nation as the pushed in limits. Forcibly. Risking years in sierra leone. On aljazeera. Play an Important Role in the. Face. Im Richelle Carey and these are the top stories on aljazeera there been more demonstrations against Police Brutality and racism in the u. S. And washington d. C. Protesters set fires near the white house a curfew is now in effect place in minneapolis arrested people for curfew violations this nationwide started there and george floyd who was a black man was dying after being restrained by a white Police Officer more than 4000 people have been arrested across the country since thursday and atlanta 2 Police Officers have been fired for using Excessive Force on protesters so right place surrounded this car with a couple inside they did not appear to be resisting at all but police slashed their tires broke the window and taste them they were then pulled from the car put on the ground and handcuffed i think is Law Enforcement if we are ever going to get. Out of this peace that we are in today we have to recognize that our behaviors cannot consistently be pardoned because we are a Law Enforcement. These these are good guys i know them as individuals ive worked with one for over 20 years. But they made that level of mistake that cannot be rolled back to the pandemic that is still happening 33000. 00 corona virus infections new infections and one day have been confirmed in brazil its now registered half a 1000000 cases and infections have not even peaked really 29000 people have died that is the 4th highest death toll in the world president carol president terrible sorrow has were strict id resisted rather Strict Lockdown measures implemented elsewhere to slow the spread of the virus people have been protesting in hong kong calling for the and dependents of that region from china after beijing announced a sweeping new security law that many considerable in the territories autonomy activists gathered in shopping malls and elsewhere to demonstrate International Space station as receive its 1st arrivals aboard a commercial capsule and with that the hatch is open to nasa astronauts in the space x. Dragon successfully docked after blasting off on saturday that started a new era for commercial spaceflight in 9 years after nasa retired the Space Shuttle fleet so the headlines keep it here on aljazeera more news to come in return you now to head to head. Welcome back youre watching we head to head on aljazeera english my guest today is erik prince the founder former c. E. O. Of blackwater also a big supporter of and donor to President Donald Trump eric i want to talk to you about your relationship with President Trump moment but before i do just very briefly your currently executive deputy chairman of frontier Services Group f s g a Hong Kong Based security Logistics Firm that you found it why is f s g opening a Training Center for security guards in of all places province in china where up to a 1000000 muslim we are being held in basically concentration camps right now there is a lot of misreporting on that the company is not opening any Training Facility up there that was actually discussed at a Board Meeting the reporting got it wrong the only there was a some kind of memorandum signed for Construction Services not training the company doesnt do any training of any police or Security Forces why did i say that at all why did your company say it was establishing Training Facilities it was going to sign him or you for construction without a press release march the 2nd with your name on it for contract now my name we are going names on the press release your names on the press to me several times and it says ive got the press release china establishing Training Facilities and buying security equipment in vehicles. Again it was for Construction Services this Training Facility if you look at the actual translation from mandarin to english it was structured services the only other is we dont need only as your companys English Press release we really only Training Services the only thank you. Is for people like bank of china employees or China Airlines employees because they travel the world and they go to dangerous places its how you are where any people in should know their presence was wrong there is the company has 0 footprint in china so its not establishing the Training Facility it said it was establishing a much as i can 20 in english Language Press release. The board has discussed this twice in there is not 1. 00 or r. And b. Allocated for anything like that ok and youve got nothing to do with whats going on with the weaker muslims and 0 ok but you do have a lot to do with the Chinese Government so for someone who sees himself as a Great American patriot veteran navy seal america 1st donald trump support isnt all that you do so much security business with the Chinese Government which is seen by many including by President Trump as a major geopolitical adversary of the United States in that way it is not a conflict again the company doesnt do any security perceval it does some training for people to avoid being a victim of a terror of terrorism is that if there is no blackwater sorry no no. Youre right there is no way no official employee thats armed doing that kind of secure working in china your Hong Kong Based the majority of youre certainly going to come to me as a chinese owned is it not its well its Retail Investors everything from mutual funds in their currency chinese own yes or no i dont know if its a majority but theres a lot of chinese ownership sure how much your company or the executives deputy chair know its publicly listed its all publicly disclosed tell us the fact is the company does grocery delivery trucking all through Southern Africa we do medivac with the biggest medivac provider but theres no conflict between working for the chinese and working for the u. S. As you want to do now in afghanistan you dont think theres a conflict there a lot of American Patriot acts veteran look america is a big trading partner of china and helping china connected logistics lines for better trade i think countries that trade together tend to not fight together but against sure it is a form of private military contract to form officer in the u. S. Army professor at Georgetown University author of the book the new rules of war short is there a conflict of interest it is a concern do you think in washington d. C. Where you are based yes there is a big interest so last year the National Defense strategy which is the pentagons strategy for the world shifted the 1st time in years away from counterterrorism counterinsurgency into the threats of russia and china and we all know that china. Uses its economic instruments of power to you know its to look at they did to sri lanka they took over a port as if they were a mafia don so its not just economic trade theres also a darker aspect to it and many in washington see you as one of their sort of weapons of war and youre a chinese weapon of will absolutely not and because were not doing any kind of training building their tactical what about the leverage shown the ability and about the economic leverage the fact is what does the company do now i just trucking in transportation from Southern Africa you can deliver groceries from cape town all the way up to the d. R. See we medivac we fly people all over the continent and we do significant air operations out of malta supporting hopefully Oil Operations in countries like iraq or pakistan or the hydro dams look at countries around the world. If china shows up a lot of money a lot of people to do Infrastructure Projects the russians are showing up with muscle and weapons the United States is largely missed the boat the one positive change the Trump Administration has made is that change the law changed last october for opec the overseas private Investment Corporation the only part of the u. S. Government that actually makes money and now theyre shifted a huge budget away from the state department of opec so that it is managed and it allows more investment also launch a trade war with china which might put you into different comes at the same time let me ask little tim collins this question is here you are a famous officer in the british army now youre chairman of your own private Security Consultancy new century how do you respond to critics who say when you run these private for Profit Companies youre only loyal to yourselves or to your bottom lines youre not loyal to a National Government and thats a problem thats that makes you conflicted whats your response to people who say that well in the day theres a thing called International Law nobody does anything on its side and if they do then the the must be held accountable the difficulty is the only people who will subject to a law themselves to be regulated all the good guys there are meshing reactivity all over the world the reality is that many people in this room dont realise that many governments in the world particularly in pakistan india around the middle east maintain people who they pay and deploy as contractors and these are people who are committing atrocities they wont be regulated ok so let me put up one very briefly sean very briefly whats your sponsors point about regulation do you think Companies Like eriks as regulators they should be well im a little bit more skeptical about the power of International Law in general about mercenaries because the thing about you know whos going to go into yemen and arrest all those mercenary at the u. N. And if so the mercenaries can shoot back right they can kill your Law Enforcement and im not suggesting that erics that would be erics plan but eric as part of a broader. Strand of the rise of mercenaries what word is this and you know private wars wars without states thats of and what if the us to partake in the us eric let me ask you this youre a big supporter of donald trump youve been questioned by special counsel Robert Muller over the russia gate investigation he looked at your laptop and your phones i believe you also testified to congress in november 27th when you told congress under oath that you played quote no official or really unofficial role in the Trump Campaign what you didnt Tell Congress is that on august 3rd 2016 you were at a meeting during the campaign at trump tower with don jr trump son with Steven Miller then a Campaign Advisor to trump with george nader a former blackwater colleague of yours who acts as a back channel to the saudis the m a r ts youre supposed to be convicted paedophile and also joel zemo an israeli expert on social media manipulation how come you didnt mention that meeting to Congress Given its so relevant to their investigation. I did as part of the part of the investigations i certainly disclosed in the any meetings the very new i had on the congressional testimony you gave to the house we went through it you didnt mention anything about august 26th meeting in trump tower they specifically asked you what context you have and you didnt answer that. I dont believe i was asked that question you were asked whether any community for communications or contact with the campaign you said apart from writing papers putting up yard signs know what you said ive got the transcript of the conversation here. I might have been i think it was at trump headquarters or the Campaign Headquarters might be our august 3rd 2016 usable and israeli do a back channel to the emirates on the saudis dont jr and even miller were there to talk about iran policy through that about iran policy do you think thats something important to disclose to the House Intelligence Committee while youre under oath you did you didnt we just went through the testimony theres no mention of the trump tower meeting on this 2016 why not i dont know if they got the transcript wrong. They got the transcript wrong so we could i dont know i remember i remember certainly does dismiss it that we didnt hear you because we know that Robert Mueller he hasnt been able to establish collusion it but he has got a lot of guys for lying to the authorities and not telling the whole truth is that a problem now even if you accidentally didnt tell them that could come back and haunt you fully cooperated i havent heard anybody i havent heard from anybody in more than 9 months i mean i mean members of congress after they discover this media have talked about certain witnesses not telling the truth but you believe you told congress about this meeting even if no in the transcript just to be clear i believe so ok you had another meeting which they did talk to you about in the seychelles on the 11th jahnu 2017 a week before trumps inauguration where good old george nader was there again on behalf of the amorality as was top Russian Oligarch general dimitri of a close ally of letting me putins the emirates he saw that meeting as a as a way of creating a back channel between putin this guy dimitry of and trumps you didnt they i dont think so i was there to talk to the iraqis about somalia and some of the other problem areas that we did help with before it was also about iran you know and it was so how did you end up with a with a Russian Oligarch who runs the Russian Direct Investment Fund and is seen by the iraqis as the messenger to putin they call him well as i recall the immoralities were investors in that fund and any fund manager any fund manager tends to travel to where their lp their investors. Need to be but what we chatting about with the russian dude. Ive talked about in testimony and thats all i meant to say but it was just a kind of accidental meeting. Yes even though georgia nader your fund raising like ive said before it lasted one beer which doesnt take me very long. So you flew halfway around the world to a secret meeting in the seychelles to have one beer with. I was there to see the American Leadership thats not what georgia nader seems to be telling the mother folks right now does that worry you that naders contradicted your former colleague i think its amazing for you to try to view into the miller testimony that its my impression to i mean ok thats thats what thats whats being reported ok. I want to bring in you mentioned iran interesting enough to bring in very briefly before we move on and i know the audience waiting Ghaith Abdulahad is an Award Winning guardian journalist from iraq youve covered conflicts across the middle east when you hear about the emerald teas and trump and the saudis and the israelis what is that all about i mean are mentioned iran is this all about iran i mean of course were living kind of people say its a cold war its not a cold war game or between their morality so these are the israelis and the iranians on the other side and what the minorities are doing for example in yemen and i think you work with iraqis and you advise them at one point they are actually implementing you are of understand plan so if you see the morality war in the air and it is tens of thousands of mercenaries local forces will skeleton troops from the immoralities a war that is being followed so viciously with no accountability whatsoever within the big arch of fighting the iranians who did exist in yemen have you advocated using private private contractors to take on iran to the trumpet ministration you know you have people have accused of advocating the past youve talked about using private contracts to confront iran no no you see no role for blackwater s. G. In any relation to iran now ok just to check before going to tell you what ive got asked one question last question you are part of a group of high profile Trump Supporters including steve bannon sheriff david clarke and others who are planning on raising private money to build a wall along the Us Mexico Border you even have a go fund me page what i dont get though is im. Pretty sure i heard donald trump say that mexico would be paying for the war. Dont discount mexico actually paying for the wall i think most of us have but yet more and more news on that look theres a lot of places where its federal land and in a go fund me individual effort is not possible but theres a lot of places where u. S. Ranchers or u. S. Landowners own land right up to the border they are sick of their farms effectively being massive transit spots for drug and criminal activity and so they would welcome that the guy who started that is a triple amputee a military veteran who started it and hes raised more than 20000000. 00 and the cost per the you for the loss of people for money when many when trump told us more than a 100 times people have counted that mexico would pay for the wall so why do we need you in this guy and go fund me page from lied to will because i again dont discount mexico actually paying for part of that. There are things that that may happen that mexico end up paying he wanted to have the will hurt can say hey mexico is going to pay for paul to the wall part very explicitly said mexico will pay for the wall the last chapter is not written on that mark my words you will pay for the wall so then why are you fundraising. You want it both ways there is only the little bit to raise money because people are frustrated theyre sick of frustrated that the president cant get mexico to pay for the wall 2 years into his presidency after claiming there it is a National Security issue when you have thousands of people crossing the border with a lot of drugs look america has a huge opium and you know the majority that in fact come through legal points of entry im talking about the funding trumps in mexico and from the wall did he lie to people when he said what used to be a bipartisan issue the democrats have made items that are to say that you didnt lie to us when he said mexico to pay for the well given your now trying to get americans to pay i dont believe the president has lied and like i said the last chapter of mexico paying for the wall is not done yet ok mark my word i will wait for them ok but in the meantime americans are going to pay for it through your fund raising lets go to our audience whos been waiting very patiently im going to go to the front here and were going to the back gentleman here with the band. Being originally iraq and having spent some time in iraq ive seen how iraqis still shudder at the name blackwater reminded of the endless aggression the use of weapons as call homes or even the use of tear gas as call Traffic Control do you not think that blackwater has a role to play in perpetuating violence in iraq as well as laying the foundation for the creation of al qaeda in isis theres 110000 iraqi civilians have died after blackwater and involvement in iraq blackwater was not the problem in iraq a very sick tarion government dominated by iranian units that have been pounding on the sunnis and now pounding on the kurds is probably the thing that led to the crop of this even if thats part of it most military experts into the u. S. Military experts agree that high profile incidents whether its abu ghraib did help act as a recruiting sergeant for groups like isis that didnt exist before the u. S. Invaded iraq so Something Like the missile square massacre that is still remembered in baghdad may well have done helped people say you know what im going to go join an Insurgent Group thats how american street of private contractors shoot 9 year old kids in the street shoot mothers with their children i think massive unemployment and an Iraqi Government that is you know when im not disputing that im agreeing with you i was saying when you discount them in iraq you sitting at home seeing the missile square massacre didnt think you know what i might as well go join the insurgency this is how americans treat as innocent people no thats not you know look there is a justice a process that served there is actually accountability lots of investigation for that but like i said i always want to ask that you dont answer the question as if iraq you sitting at home sees the missile square massacre you dont think that might incite him to join in a surge in there of course bad news travels fast and irritates people really about news is what this gentleman suggesting but we did not create 110000 iraqi civilians that were murdered ok. Xabi and the iranians said lets go back to the audience gentlemen here in the red tide. Id like to ask what you thing some of President Trumps greatest 4 inch policy achievements have been thus far and what he should focus on for the next 2 years to secure reelection. Well you know the president he campaigned against endless wars and the pentagon look there is a real military Industrial Complex but hes trying to stop that he is trying to remove or reduce the u. S. Presence in afghanistan and in syria hes been getting the North Koreans to the table and if you can actually go she and to the korean war it will be a magnificent 1st step and i think if thats if thats the case then the u. S. Should be willing to pull all troops out of south korea and the u. S. Presence in korea which weve been which weve had for 77 years youre not a fan of iran is going to briefly should you negotiate with iran to why is it that iran is the evil regime nobody should talk to them but north korea i send them love letters he sends me love letters. To my knowledge i think there certainly is still back channel negotiations with the iranians as well but you know they continue to do. You know questionable things in syria ok lets go to lets go to the lady here in the gentleman there. Hi this is also with regards to the august 3rd meeting of the 16 you said that you mentioned it in your task to need to the House Intelligence Committee i have the transcript right here of the testimony on the 30th of november 2016 you did and i could read from it if we dont have time for you to read the transcript so why didnt you why you why are you saying you did when you could have another go answering this question why didnt you mention it in your test i mean there was nothing to hide not all the discussion that there was transcribed and thats a fact ok but your answers to the questions suggest that there was no involvement that they asked you for example have you had any me any meetings with the u. A. E. Delegation prior to the official meeting and the august 3rd meeting was prior to state our meeting georgian there is a representative of the m. P. That was one like i said not everything was transcribed from that discussion. You werent there. Youve been very kind of i admire you be very forthcoming to on this issue youre very dont want to say much are you worried they are worried about milo no not at all now ok. Lets go back to the audience lets go to the gentleman there. I was caught up in this was going back to move till covering the story at the time was mayhem as you know we saw people getting killed money on drugs it was indeed know weve discussed this with you before but just going back one listens have you. Done things differently then if you knew what you know im sure i wouldnt have i wouldnt ever do security for the state department again it just wasnt worth it it wasnt worth the damage or the horror of the company if we were going to do it i would have insisted like we did for any angio work that we did is that we have cameras ok because the camera serves as a 3rd party neutral observer because its very easy to 2nd guess something that happens you know days ago or weeks or months ago but its very different and you have to make a speech that i dont see youre saying cameras that the implication being that you dont accept you did anything wrong that i had there been cameras your men would be vindicated if that was not what youre saying to be explicit about look because ive been found guilty in American Courts and in the courts you dont like but theyve been found guilty in American Courts after the 4th time of trying ok theyve been found guilty in American Court and we had numerous other incidents where there was a shooting and we were accused and when it was all square and we believe young men did anything wrong and when Law Enforcement authorities viewed the tapes. There was no problem believing this oh square human did anything wrong so very simple question in hindsight sure if its an innocent civilian every innocent civilian thats killed is a tragedy is a horror and we try very hard to avoid that thats why 40 when 41 men died doing that mission shielding other people from enemy bullets who are trying to kill them and slaughter them or hang them to burn theyre going to some more questions lady with a hand up do it for my friend to come to you yes i was a Us Television journalist in iraq during and after the invasion i saw blackwater people humiliate and terrorize iraqis they were hostile to journalists and they were hostile to n. G. O. S why should you get a contract to do the same thing in afghanistan thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you. How did you know that they were black or personnel they very very clearly Walking Around not just driving cars Walking Around they were blackwater as journalists we knew who blackwater was let us know they were not soldiers they were blackwater if there were there are literally im sorry there was hundreds and hundreds of companies employing u. S. Nato and other country veterans difference between the between blackwater and nato im sorry by saying i dont think youre that sharp that you can tell the difference between a polish guy a french guy or you need a yard and sharp to tell the difference well thank you ive always wanted i did. You know as ordinary retract if youre going to agree before this gets out i would carry on with that id carry on with your audience will go to the debate with a tie in the suit. So ive got to be in war since i was in one fighting 20 International Terrorist groups since 2014 the Afghan National Security Forces have been doing this by themselves so how do you justify that youll get a contract and go and do the war in afghanistan given that youre making money out of this business and you dont ever want to conclude this business there and one point please do us a favor and have a bold line between the centers of the democracy is totally up to the people of afghanistan to decide who is their next president thank you are you ready for. You after yourself yes and you believe the afghans dont want nothing like thats definitely not going to deal with the 1st question about that that you have a selfinterest in perpetuating the conflict because you get paid heres the thing the of the 62000000000. 00 right now the u. S. Spends 5000000000. 00 supporting the afghan Security Forces 57000000000. 00 is the cost of u. S. Presence there thats going away ok the support for the afghan Security Forces the airlift the medivac which is wholly inadequate right now because Afghan Soldiers are dying at a rate of 30. 40 per day if there is not a skill to support supply provided to them how many cars im sorry ashraf ghani himself said the Afghan Forces will collapse in less than 6 months i say its more like 6 weeks ok so there has to be some kind of capability to keep the afghan Security Forces operate and able to function so that afghanistan can actually have a free election and they should be totally free to choose their next leader i agree let me ask you this despite all the things you and black would have been accused of some of which weve discussed tonight but this much more you said in 2007 quote i sleep the sleep of the just im not feeling guilty just wondering is that still the case today you still have no regrets no guilt no ruined sleep at all over all those innocent lives taken by blackwater employees. Look the fact is the company did what it was asked to it was asked to protect protect we saved thousands and thousands of people we saved many many wounded u. S. Soldiers well beyond the scope of the contract. Ok we did what were asked any any injury any civilian thats injured in a car crash or actually having your 9 year old children shot in the correct and still since long after blackwater was involved 110000 iraqi civilians have been killed in that same conflict by isis so by incompetent government i want to have george bush on the show last about his sleep im asking about the people your guys killed does it keep you awake at night we were asked to do a job and we performed very very well well have to leave it there thanks to our audience here in the oxford union thanks to our panel of experts who have come tonight and thanks to erik prince for joining me on head to head thats our show head to head will be back next week. Thank. You. The controversial liberal i am not the ideologue let me be absolutely clear to democracy and International Development doesnt cut inequality in fact to increase im from a bestselling author and distinguished economist you dont on the contrary like you you learn i sure do many times con having read my novel get some i didnt know millions of the committee his son goes head to head weve done be somewhere you know ive been accused of being crazy im not that crazy on al jazeera. But. I know that most of the middle east on the Arabian Peninsula is wholesome and dry the winds being fairly light as well lately but what we have been watching of course is this this is this. Has actually come on shore and this has been severely impacting areas of him on several days as the widespread flooding as we go through monday this is some will continue producible rains in and around but it is actually for cars to move away but its moving on to yemen and that means we could see some widespread flooding here and to the north of there is a say how much is a fairly high the nose as hot as it has been in baghdad with 141 degrees celsius pretty good as well through the eastern end of about getting some breeze coming in off the mediterranean but it does warm up when choose a sez he 3 in jerusalem and also at that point the winds do pick up so a touch is tending to increase 49. 00 is a full cost high in kuwait and up to 43. 00 in riyadh and 44 degrees and meanwhile those rains continue to work their way very slowly across the central areas of yemen so again just causing possibly a flooding across the region bunch of rain showers and thunderstorms through central areas of Southern Africa particularly around the gulf of guinea up towards the nigeria and then really further to the south its pretty calm and quiet but weve seen systems clear nice day across much of south africa so warming at last into Port Elizabeth with a high of 26. But. Throughout history behind has come together in our darkest moments this is a moment for pretty much the opposite where retreat from the world could actually save every generation has its moment this one is ours. Ringback ready to officers are fired for using Excessive Force on protesters during demonstrations against Police Brutality in the u. S. Tens of thousands of people have been back out largely peacefully in protest over the death toll flawed but there was still some violence. Elephant to harm come out santa maria and this is the world news from aljazeera several countries reopen their schools and more of their economies with rules to prevent a 2nd wave of corona virus infections. Im wayne hay in oakland new zealand we will tell you why coronavirus may change the way our cities are designed. But everyone people in cities across the u. S. Have defied curfews again to continue their protests against Police Brutality and atlanta super these offices have been 5 using Excessive Force police surrounded one car and arrested a couple inside after slashing the tires. Breaking a window and firing a taser but he has now with. Police misconduct amid nationwide protests over Police Misconduct here police in riot gear surround a car with 2 young black people in sign one slashes a tire thanks. Another smashes the drivers window through it. And the young woman is taped and violently dragged out although she is not resisting. The male driver is manhandled and also shocked with a taser even though each 2 doesnt appear to resist but put it down and put it out of the us on sunday after the Police Body Cam video went viral 2 of the policemen were fired authorities identified them as ivory streeter and mark gardner writes this was Atlanta Georgia on saturday night for protesters calling for justice for the death in minneapolis of george floyd it could have been almost anywhere in the us Atlanta Mayor keesha lance bottoms said the officers ack