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Because at the end of the day there s only one decisionmaker that matters, it s vladimir putin, and we don t know what he s decided. my guest is that he hasn t decided what he plans to do. i hope he chooses the peaceful path and the negotiation path. so i applaud our administration and other leaders for presenting that. if he does go in, lots of people are going to die, it s going to be horrible, especially for ukrainians but also for russians. it ll be the biggest war in europe since 1939, and it ll be the focus of the world for years to come. in the long run, however, i m a very optimistic. this is the last hoorah of the soviet empire. vladimir putin believes that he can subjugate the people of ukraine and he s wrong about that. he s wrong about that, i don t know when that day will come, it ll probably be tragically years from now. but this is the last hoorah, not the beginning of the recreation of the soviet empire. okay. former ambassador michael mcfaul ....
State like ukraine defend itself against a larger adversary like russia that is armed to the teeth? and there s small little interventions that the ukrainians can do now. they can line that long border with drones, with mines. there s a lot of low-cost things that they could be doing now. and they re not doing it. and they re also not preparing the people. the job of a leader is to prepare people. i know that zelensky doesn t want war. no one wants war. but zelensky is looking at this conflict in a domestic lens. he wants to be president again, and this is interfering with his political aspirations. that s not leadership. ambassador, what do you think of all that melinda is saying there? i mean, she was there, i wasn t. so i want to defer to her expertise. i talk to ukrainians pretty much every day, and i do think there s a public messaging by the government and private concern, private worry, and ....
He mentioned, we re not putting out this intelligence in order to start a war, we re putting out this intelligence in order to avert a war. that was a pretty clear reference to the 2003 invasion of iraq by the bush administration and the intelligence that was used then as a pretext to invade. this administration seems to be taking pains to differentiate them from those intelligence assessments. but, still, i got to tell you, alex, here in ukraine, those intelligence assessments that we ve been hearing over the past couple of weeks are viewed as without substance. and the administration here of zelensky, they really want the biden administration to give them evidence. they actually asked for that directly yesterday. so, we haven t heard a full complete readout of this conversation between biden and zelensky. i imagine that president zelensky here in ukraine was asking for more evidence and more information to back up those claims that we ve been hearing out of washington. so i m going ....
Mistake? you know, it s easy for us to be on tv and to tell the white house officials what they re supposed to do and what not to do. i worked at the white house for three years in the obama administration. i dealt one time with the revolution in kyrgyzstan where we were very worried about american citizens on the ground there. and we had to take all kinds of crazy activities to try to get them out, and we did because there wasn t a war. i would just remind you that we have many tragic examples when we don t get the americans out ahead of time, and the people are killed, including just several months ago in afghanistan. so, i m not prepared to second-judge the national security adviser and the intelligence officials. they obviously know more than i do. it s not a sign of weakness that they re doing this. it s a sign that they want to, a, protect americans and, b, they want to avoid a war with russia. and if americans are killed by russian soldiers, this conflict takes on a radically ....
And among those, as we mentioned, there s been a lot of talk on the sunday talkshows today. jake sullivan recently explaining a lot of these new intelligence pronouncements that have been coming out lately. we re not putting forward this intelligence to start a war, which has happened in the past, jake. we are putting forward this intelligence to stop a war. only one country has amassed more than 100,000 troops on the border of ukraine. it s not the united states, it s russia. that is the source of the alarm. and what we are trying to do publicly is be transparent to american citizens that they should leave ukraine immediately because there will not be a military evacuation in the event of an invasion. and we are trying to tell the ukrainians to prepare and be ready for this as well. we re not going to give russia the opportunity to conduct a surprise here. reporter: and you heard that right at the top of that quote from jake sullivan. ....