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Cohen theoretically could have information that would be useful for these, you know, congressional committees that are looking into this. so that s sort of the evidentiary value that he would offer. as reporting from the wall street journal that house investigators believe they ve got evidence that president trump asked matthew whitaker whether the jeffrey berman, the u.s. attorney, could regain control of his office s investigations into michael cohen. berman is a trump appointee, he s a federal prosecutor. what do crow make of this? i think for this, the devil s really going to be in the details here. it s hard to get a read on what actually is. i mean, there s asking, and there s asking. the president saying, hey, tell me more about this recusal, what s the basis of this, is one thing. the president saying, can we do something about this and can we get him to un-recuse, is another. berit, good to see you. thank you for being us. of course. ....
Himself. walk us through what happened. sure. and that s exactly right, don. this is part of a pattern that we saw, you know, certainly in 2017, where he tried repeatedly to have jeff sessions un-recuse from the russia probe, and the probe into possible campaign collusion with russian officials. so as we understand it, and according to multiple people [ inaudible ] around the time that michael cohen had pleaded guilty to lying to congress, and remember what he lied to congress about was the duration of time that the trump tower moscow project was going on. he initially suggested that it ended in january. in his courtroom statements, he said it went to june. around this time, the president asked whitaker if it was possible for jeff berman, who is the prosecutor in the southern district of new york, to un-recuse from the case. berman had recused because of some, i think, some matter involving his former law firm. ....
sure. and that s exactly right, don. this is part of a pattern that we saw, you know, certainly in 2017, where he tried repeatedly to have jeff sessions un-recuse from the russia probe, and the probe into possible campaign collusion with russian officials. so as we understand it, and according to multiple people [ inaudible ] around the time that michael cohen had pleaded guilty to lying to congress, and remember what he lied to congress about was the duration of time that the trump tower moscow project was going on. he initially suggested that it ended in january. in his courtroom statements, he sid it went to june. around this time, the president asked whitaker if it was possible for jeff berman, who is the prosecutor in the southern district of new york, to un-recuse from the case. berman had recused because of some, i think, some matter involving his former launw firm. ....
Get jeff sessions, the former attorney general, to sort of unrecuse, leaning on him this that way. the question all along in these cases is what is the president s intent? is it a corrupt intent used to try to protect himself where he thinks he has real exposure? and in the expo hen case itcohe implicated as an unindicted coconspirator in those hush money payments with his former lawyer. it lays out over the course of time, two years, it s hard to keep all of this in your head, how many times we ve seen this pattern. but the new york times lays it all out, so it s not just that he leaned on matt whit tacker to try continue to stall geoffrey berman, an ally. well before that he leaned on corey lewandowski to try to get rid of jeff sessions. and he leaned on don mcgahn, the white house lawyer, to try to get rid of robert mueller. so there is a pattern here. i think that s true. ....
A lot of our campaign reporters recall that. where you see the change is his defenses in calling out what he believes the witch hunt is on russia. that s really where the big increase has been. his attacks on the media have been consistent. guy? chuck, what are the implications here if president trump did in fact ask matthew whittaker to take some sort of action in the cohen investigation? it s a good question, craig. it fits into a pattern that we have seen unfolding, unraveling over time. that is the president threatening witnesses or hanging out the promise of pardons or trying to use twitter to intimidate. if the president really was going after matt whittaker and asking matt whittaker to intervene and to get berman to unrecuse something i ve never heard of, an unrecusal. that would fit that pattern of obstruction. why does the pattern matter? ....