That the admission of ukraine to nato the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation , could trigger world war three. Meanwhile, turkey has been trying to act as a mediator in this war. Buy does all of this lead the people of ukraine . Could p still prevail miss with me in the studio is our security correspondent frank gardner, and orysia lutsevych, head of the Ukraine Forum at chatham house. And wee are also delighted to welcome professor kata ryna wolczuk, from the university of birminghams centre for russian, european and eurasian studies, Drjustin Bronk is a Senior Research fellow at the london based military think tank rusi, he is an expert in airpower and technology, and from the bbc s Russia Service olga ivshina. Well be hearing from each of our special panel in a few minutes, but first frank is going to set the tone for this discussion by reminding us of the key recent developments and statements and what they might tell us about the risks of escalation. The war in ukraine is intensify
Until we destroy putin, we will not become members of either the eu or nato. They will be afraid. That is, you think that you will win faster than we enter the e. Together we will win ours faster. We, we can do it without you. It is ours, it is our joint victory. Without you, you mean, without ukrainians . Without ukrainians. And you are a citizen of ukraine. I am a ukrainian, i am a resident of kyiv, but i am a ukrainian entrepreneur, i am a russian politician, that is, it turns out that you are a citizen of ukraine, you are fighting for power in russia, well, of course, who else, look, you , you see them, even they can, well, to be honest, gelman disappointed me the most, the most in your gathering, if we talk about the lviv gathering. Gelmans presence at this meeting, because i remember how marat gelman was one of those people who shaped politics in yanukovychs Campaign Headquarters in 2004, and he was quite active, by the way, he worked with medvedchuk then, well, here he was prese
Cooperate, and then where this opposition is, inside russia, outside russia, we are in principle realists, and to cooperate simply in order to maintain good relations, well, i think this is not our method, we we have to proceed from pragmatic some things, we need russian, russian opposition, in order for democratic elections to be held in russia, democratic elections cannot be held in the empire, the empire must be dismantled, well, this is such a program very, very much, and the population of the empire must go through a long enough the way for it to really be able to walk, participate in. Elections, the opposition must train the population, the russian opposition must train the population of russia after putin is removed from power, and the country, if it remains the same, in the same limits, as now, it will be to be, as we say, under the protectorate of the free world. For now, these are, well, forgive me farfetched plans, that i would rather talk about something more concrete than
Such a good pr was given to it by the mayor of the city of lviv, the gardener, who apparently did not know about its holding, and then it turned out that there were some journalists there, not many actually there there were microphones, if you look at the photos, i would have liked a wider coverage, perhaps, that is, it seems to me that at the moment they did not know about this forum, and then they found out about this whole thing because of such a media scandal, which, by the way, i am also in eteri asked ilya ponomery this morning. Why lviv in particular, why this forum was not held in kharkiv, why it was not held there in zaporizhzhia, in dnipro, well, it was already held in kyiv, yes, but if, it seems, if the russian oppositionists, they came to ukraine and not to lviv, where are we after all we understand, its safer there, after all, in kharkiv, well, its dangerous there, well, i dont know, in a bunker somewhere, in the subway, to feel that atmosphere, just when russian, russian