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Think john kerry has really hit the right note, which is this is not up to the united states to choose their prime minister, but he has clearly conveyed the fact that we don t want to see maliki with a third term. and i think he s allowing the iraqi political system, which is moving forward and moving forward quite quickly in these days to come up with someone not named maliki as prime minister. the real trick, and i think this is where the real diplomacy has to be is in two yairareas. one is to say to maliki, you ve been terrific, but time to turn it over to someone else. it s a hard message. and then, two, and this is even more important. to say to the sunnis, look. we have supported the idea of a change to get someone not named maliki, but you sunnys have to get real. and do you want to be with baghdad, albeit shia or do you want to be with this blood thirsty hoard that s coming in to western iraq. i think the sunnis at some ....
Him. and so the problem we had in 2010 was that maliki finally agreed to some things. he had eight sunnis in his cabinet. another six or seven kurds. there wasn t a lack of sunni outreach in that cabinet. the problem was he didn t kind of complete, he didn t go forward with it. he tried to take back some things. so i think this time people have to say, you know, fool me once, shame on you. but this time, we re not going to allow it to happen. so maliki is a tough customer and he should not be underestimated. and let me just say one more thing. he is not the only problem in that country. that s certainly appearing to be the case. i want to ask you finally, before we let you go about the topic of iran. a lot of conversations about the u.s. and iran, at least talking about how to resolve this crisis. again now new tensions between the two with ayatollah criticizing the u.s. for getting involved. what s your take on that? i think we ought to have this as part of our political ....
Point, the iraqi sunnis are going to have to step forward. overall, i think this has been a sort of real get real tour by the secretary, going to egypt, being very clear about the human rights problems, but at the same times, clear about the u.s. desire to have normal relations with the egyptian government. that s a that s the right way to go. and then to come into iraq and convey these tough messages. and ambassador, you are the perfect person to pose this to since you were there for the first six months of the last government formation process after the iraqi elections in 2010. i guess that formation process lasted another three months or so after you left. but what are the prospects in your eyes for that happening right now in that region, in the middle of a deep crisis? yeah, well, maliki is the master of sort of rope a dope government formation. he ll delay. he ll just let other punitive candidates try to beat him up. but he ll be there at the end. so you can t just leave it ....
Parts. richard engel, thanks so much. secretary kerry has the unenviable task of calling for unity in iraq. certainly a place that doesn t have it right now. we are not making any preconditions with respect to who can or can t take part. that is up to iraq. it s up to the people of iraq. neither the united states nor any other country has the right to pick who leads iraq. that is up to the people of iraq. we re joined by ambassador chris hill, former ambassador to iraq. he s now dean of the joseph korbel school in denver. john kerry meeting face to face with a series of leaders in iraq. what real leverage does the u.s. have here? seems the leverage is a lot more with the system than it is with prime minister maliki himself. well, that s very true, but i ....
So doing, that will be a major change in the map in the middle east. and for all these map enthusiasts who love to draw new lines in the map, remember, you draw a new line, you re going to get a t of dead people in the process. yeah. this is starting to feel, at least in the video, a lot like the beginning of 2003. what do you think? well, certainly, the battle lines are very drawn. we re dealing with, really, a military conflict. i m not too troubled by the notion that isis is about to attack baghdad. i think the real threat is they have already carved off northeastern iraq. and i think it s going to be tough to get it back from them. and it s pretty clear that the sunnis in iraq didn t do any resisting of their own. and frankly, have not been very receptive to any kind of overtures on the part of the shia. so maliki has been a real problem in that he makes agreements and then doesn t follow through on them. i don t think the sunnis have exactly covered themselves with ....