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And defcon. Our guest report from the Washington Post is joseph marx. Mr. Moss, remind us again what is black hat and defcon, and w did they come about . Well, so defcon is a largest conference in the world hacking conference at will, about 30,000 attended in las vegas, precovid and a black hat is one of the largest security covers also held in las vegas. One is the university and one is more like a party. One is focused on your professional Career Advancement and the other one is eating the soul of hackers and aspiring. Host when did you found these . Guest defcon is pretty old. It was about 1993, at and about three or four years later black hat started, 1997 i believe. The secret was we did no advertising or marketing of the just group organically. Host what is your background that you are able to do this . Guest well, originally i thought i was going to be an fbi agen ....

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