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Have the system is we re not sure exactly what the rules are going to be. there are rules that existed in previous impeachment trials, but as, i think, you have pointed out, they can change in the middle of the process. yeah. so we re in this, you know, odd situation where we re not sure what the rules are going to be. if you will permit me to be somewhat lofty, what should americans take from this system that is that is a possibility in our constitution rarely exercised and we lived during times that are both hyperbolic and cynical. everything is the biggest deal ever, but also nothing matters. it could be very disorienting. yet, isn t it fascinating and potentially constructive for the country to sit back and say, oh, the president is not above the law. whatever happens at a trial, he has to go through one. and what are we to take from it as a citizenry that there is this system provided for in the constitution? well, i think it is obviously it is a very, very ....
There are a set of laws and rules that we all know that don t get changed in the middle of trial. we know what the evidence rules are. we know what due process is. the courts have analyzed it and it s set there. the other thing of course is the jury is very different. in a trial we have voir dire. we have a system to make sure that there are fair and impartial jurors who judge the facts and the law solely on what s presented to them in the court. and that s not how our impeachment process works. well, karen on voir dire that allows you to question the jurors and get rid of ones that aren t fit to be in the trial, i think americans would have plenty of views of who they would eliminate if we had that view for the senate right now. yeah. i think that s true. that s what i meant. there is a fundamental difference in how the actual trial is meant to occur in the senate versus what a trial is in a criminal process. they re very different. the trial in the senate, we also ....
Setting the rules for the trial. so, you know, it is uncharted water. we had the clinton and andrew johnson a long time ago. but the rules are kind of it s not surprising that the rules are kind of made up as we go along. yeah. and as you say, that is something the founders did on purpose. they left quite a bit of leeway in what they did not require in the trial. they did require the house sends it over. you have to start. so great to have you. very nice to talk to you. appreciate it. coming up, we talk to tom friedman about the wider case for trump s impeachment. ....
We declared our independence from the old rules. and, yet, isn t there an ethical difference between some notion of rebellion and renewal and what he stands accused of, which is not being stand, not being ethical but needing to cheat, needing to extort allegedly foreign power to remain in power. that s what the federalist papers have been quoted a lot last week in the debate, so to speak, over his impeachment. but if you look at the federalist papers and look at the history of how the impeachment clause was written, it was exactly about preventing this kind of complicity with foreign powers, about which the founders were freaked out whether it was the british or the french or to be named later. and, so, he is the guy. and this is precisely the behavior that they were writing to have a way to punish and get rid of such a president. yeah, he is that dude. he is that dude. ....