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MSNBC Hallie Jackson Reports February 24, 2022 20:08:00

European and kind of ironic, of course, though, that it is a war in europe and the europeans having to be persuaded and take such drastic action. we re talking about the s.w.i.f.t. system and russia has over the last several years developed its own alternative, if you will, part of why president biden made that declaration that he believes this is going to be extremely tough against putin and tougher than acting on s.w.i.f.t. is that an accurate assessment based on your many years of experience with sanctions and in this sort of field? so, listen, s.w.i.f.t. is a tough move, cutting them out of s.w.i.f.t. is a tough move. what ends up happening you reserve that for countries like syria and countries like iran where you are completely cutting them off and you have made the decision you want no financial movements or transactions between you and that country. right. that doesn t seem to make a lot of sense for a lot of reasons, for the reasons spelled out because of the ongoing trade ....

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MSNBC Hallie Jackson Reports February 24, 2022 20:07:00

Remains part of the global economy. we re not going to damage the system of the world economy in which we, ourselves, exist. once again, you saw a confident, determined president putin turning his business leaders, it s okay, not thrown out in the world economy. a few hours later you hear president biden whether be removed from the s.w.i.f.t. payment system and president biden indicating an issue with the europeans. when kristen says europe is more economically intertwined with russia, no kidding. the u.s. has right around $35 billion worth of trades with russia. china about right about $150 billion. europe $250 billion worth of trades with russia. so, this is kind of roughly very simply how the system works. the system is kind of american, s.w.i.f.t. is american, dollar-based system. but the majority of the trade is ....

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MSNBC Hallie Jackson Reports February 24, 2022 20:42:00

Have decided in recent weeks that this is ideological. that he is committed to doing this. and that nothing they could do would stop him. because he wants to rewrite history. so, there is that push/pull on the sanctions. why are they sanctioning him? to punish him. to make him feel the pain so that perhaps he doesn t go as far as he would or keep this going as long as he would. but that is the basic intelligence analysis. so far the intelligence has been dead on, as you know. the sanctions themselves, according to several analysts i have talked to, are tough. they re not weak just because the s.w.i.f.t. was not done and, yes, the europeans blocked it and it s a european program based in brussels. so, without europe they couldn t do it. but what they have done with these banks is so tough and banning them from any kind of exchanges is they have done about as much as they can do. ....

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MSNBC Hallie Jackson Reports February 24, 2022 20:09:00

Between the united states and russia and europe and russia. as to which is stronger, it s hard to say. but because it s hard to measure because of the backlash that you would have from isolating russia from s.w.i.f.t. the sanctions that have been announced today are very tough. when people think of sanctions, they shouldn t think of the actual measure taken. what i mean is when the united states sanctioned today vtb bank, yes, assets in the united states is frozen and u.s. cannot do business with that target any more but what it does is unleash market forces and financial institutions and banks and businesses around the world that aren t in jurisdictions that sanctions will question whether they want to do business with them. they ll question whether they want to take capital outflows. so, market sources are unleashed and around the world you see this effort because they prefer to maintain relationships with new york. because they prefer to do ....

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MSNBC Hallie Jackson Reports February 24, 2022 20:10:00

Business in the dollar, which is currently the strongest currency around the world and they end up kind of taking sides. we saw this play out over and over again. you ve seen it with iran and a number of times. so, at the end of the day, what president biden did was very strong but relying on them, the public relying on them to change putin s calculus right now, it s just not going to happen. president biden said that today in his press conference. thank you. kristen welker, matt bradley, keir simmons, i know you ll be on later. democrat from virginia and chair of the senate intelligence committee. senator, thank you for being on with us, back on the show this afternoon. thank you. a lot to get to. let me start and pick up on the conversation that we were having on sanctions. do you believe president biden has made the right move here and would you support going further by sanctioning s.w.i.f.t. or putin himself? well, i would keep both on the table. ....

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