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before the pandemic. we only called it new normal because we were so interested that people in england use the term what s the term they always use, gilbert? existentialism. and we wanted to find an english word for that, and so normalfor us would be the. so, this new normal of yours predates everything that s happened with the pandemic? yes, yes. all the design of all aspects of it. everything was ready. ..were done before the pandemic. but nonetheless, as i understand it, a lot of the composition, the working and you do a lot of work on your pictures to bring them to this point all that was done during the pandemic. yes. because once we did finish the design, we have to do the one to one picture and that we did do in the pandemic. and it was fantastic, because we were alone doing exactly what we wanted. it s very interesting you say that, because i ve read a lot about the way you live your life and the way you work, and itjust seems to me that your particular li ....
next up, it s hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i m stephen sackur. today, i m in the white cube gallery in london as cultural life starts to re establish itself after many months of lockdown, and my guests are the artistic duo gilbert & george. now, forfive decades, they ve been producing controversial, provocative work, and this exhibition they call new normal pictures. but is there anything normal about gilbert & george? gilbert & george, welcome, both of you, to hardtalk. thanks very much. very kind. very nice. we re sitting in this gallery space. this is your latest exhibition. it s called new normal pictures. is this your response to what the world has been through in the last year and more? that is, the covid pandemic and lockdown? no, not at all. the title of the show and the pictures predates the pandemic. we created the pictures before the pandemic. we only called it new normal because we were so interested that people in england use the term what s the term th ....
there was a time in american history when people accused of being gay were literally purged from their jobs by government mandate. and it all happened during this period that i had never heard of called the lavendar scare. if you stood up and said that you were a homosexual, that was the equivalent of saying, i m unamerican. tonight we meet americans whose patriotism was questioned because of what they did behind closed doors. we were taken to be interrogated because we were gay. and find families that are still reeling from a witch hunt our government never wanted us to know about. there s been a progression of it being illegal to be gay in the government. and it was my relative who led this whole thing . so we are in fresno, california, on my way to meet a woman who is part of a group that the united states government once considered one of the greatest security threats to our country. in the 1950s america was gripped by the red scare. even if there were ....
in history. exactly. everyone has a choice. if he doesn t want to do it, fine. he doesn t have to do it, but one then must suffer the consequences of not doing it, and i think in the largest scope of all of this, it is all about america. right? humanity. we re all on team humanity. we re supposed to be looking out for each other as a team and as a team you don t just look out look out for what is just good for you. you have to look at what s good for the whole, which is a team, which is america, which is humanity, which is, right, kyrie irving s team. the most brilliant thing. a football player, the first story done on cnn i did with miron roll. great family. he said, i thought it was brilliant. he said i firmly believe athletes like him intelligent enough to make good decisions on a day to day basis to be given the information, clearly at his level he has to make a decision for himself and his team and goes on to say as part of that team, they want to fashion the ....
policies of the collective goal and mission of that team if you step outside of that, right, and they have the freedom to do so or he has the freedom to do so but you are also saying that you are different from the team and you are separate and apart from that team. do you understand what i m saying? absolutely. he can t say this is my personal thing and still be part of the team because that s not what is good for the collective goal of the team. yes. his coach said the same thing. coach steve nash said look, you know, we have championship aspirations, everyone has to pull in the same direction. he didn t. i ll tell you what i don t like. this little side bar story coming out it s not that he s anti vaccine, it s that he is not taking it in protest for all the workers who lost their jobs because they wouldn t compile comply with mandates. here is my question. if he s speaking out on their behalf by not taking the vaccine, why isn t he speaking out? why isn t ....