ukraine with the pressure picking population to be western oriented but putin also derives a lot of benefit by being perceived, even though his country gdp is the size of italy , to be up to go toe to toe with the united states. what is missing now is ukraine. they are not even in all of these discussions and negotiations. it s just russia and the united states. that s the way he wants it. he wants to beat the price of the agreement in the year 22. that is kind of what vladimir putin wants to do. he wouldn t be doing this if he didn t think that he could get away from it. daniel hoffman, thank you for letting us in on your expertise. all the best to you. still to come. a rare underwater discovery in the south pacific.