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welcome back to kc d.c.. joining me, kimberly atkins, politics editor for the daily beast, sam stein, nbc news national security and justice reporter, julia ainsley. and with me from new york, former fbi special agent and msnbc national security analyst, clint watts. sam stein, can we talk about rudy giuliani for a second? because we ve gone a few a little while without a performance like today s. yeah. what did you kind of take away from, he s essentially gone from saying, no, the president didn t know anything about this, like, nothing to see here, to saying, well, if something did happen here, it was definitely not illegal. well, what i took away from it is that the president needs a better legal team, honestly. of course, rudy is not a traditional lawyer. he s more of a pr strategist. he s a pr strategist who s winging it and seeing what happens. and sometimes, i guess it works, but sometimes you end up with flailing appearances on cable news shows. and from the beg ....
And giuliani felt like he needed to go out there and because legal strategies don t occur on television, legal strategies occur between lawyers, they occur in courtrooms, they don t occur on television. giuliani has established hillself not as the legal strategist, he s established himself as the pr strategist. it s interesting he did it when emmet flood is coming on board. he s undercut or boxed in emmet flood. because emmet flood has no tolerance for pr strategies over legal strategies. so kasie hunt, take your pick. there s this, there s also the fact that at this time yesterday, we didn t know that there would be a huge shakeup in donald trump s legal team. and there s also the question as to whether or not the president can, should or will take precedents, take questions from bob mueller. my thinking here is as i ve watched this conversation unfold is there seems to be a basic assumption that rudy giuliani had a strategy of some sort at all. and i just remain unconvinced at ....
Digenova, a guy who is basically all in, he s combative, he s vocal, he s a friendly tv face. what s going on here? yeah, well, peter, there s a real push and pull with regards to how to approach the mueller investigation, whether to continue top racooperating and a hands-off approach, comes to criticizing mueller by name and personally the president has clearly chosen for a more combative approach. that s reflective, frankly, in what s been playing out publi y ly in his tweets and public statements. hiring of this new attorney who seems to be much more sort of a pr strategist in terms of undermining publicly the mueller probe, highlighting conspiracies and so forth to really try to show this as an unfair political witch hunt which as we know from our reporting the president believes it is. and given these reports of potential disarray within the president s stable, we saw disarray in the west wing with the recent shakeups, now disarray in the president s list of attorneys. here s ....