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And if you keep them to layoff those workers if that s a choice? it s absolutely important to fight for collective bargaining rights. the stats referred to by dan are not really accurate. there are studies that show that public sector workers are not able to push around their politicians, like dan suggests. also i m not sure this is a budget bill. i think this is a bill about taking away collective bargaining rights because the governor does not want to negotiate with workers as has been the case for 50 years in wisconsin. we have a situation in wisconsin where corporate tax breaks have been given to wisconsin corporations, over a hundred million dollars and now the governor is trying to balance his budget on the back of public workers, and that is just not fair. jenna: we ll see what happens and see if any side gives. paul and dan thank you very much. we appreciate that. ....
These are democratic principles. jenna: but some say that the wisconsin state governor should actually go further, and that s what you say as well. how can you say that, if unions according to paul really represent our democratic principles? what we have with unions, and the government is a monopoly provider. if general motors workers go on strike, well i can always buy a chrysler or a toy toy. if government workers go on strike they have a monopoly power over the very functions of government which is why even franklin del lan owe roosevelt thought it was wrong to have collective bargaining in terms of government employees. wisconsin like so many states is broke, and you have across the 50 states three to four trillion dollars of unfunded liability for these pensions. what governor walker and other governors around the nation, democrat and republican are trying to do is take this very protected, very highly compensated group of people and ....
Make them live under reality. jenna: dan, are you saying that we should do away with collective bargaining rights and consequently do away with all unions? we re talking about what is the role of collective bargaining, in terms of governments. there are lots of states like my own state of virginia where there is no collective bargaining nor government employees, because there is a monopoly situation. it s completely different than the private sector where of course you have competing interests. when you have government, a union negotiates with the politician has they give money to and that is what has created this completely unsustainable fiscal nightmare at the state level. jenna: paul, dan is saying that these union workers have a corner on the market, so that s why it s tough for the two sides to negotiate. the governor says that if we do not include collective bargaining and do away with those collective bargaining rights as far as the benefits and the pensions that he s going to ....
Thousands protesting a bill by the governor that says he says will actually help the state s budget get back under control. it will also end collective bargaining rights for unions not on wages but on pensions, and benefits. and most state employees because of this are going to have to pay more into those funds, those funds for the pensions and for healthcare. 14 democratic lawmakers have fled the state to avoid a vote on this controversial bill. so who is right? we will heee talk about the two sides now with dan mitchell, a senior fellow at kato institute. and paul sek u.n. da is a professor at a law school. you say the governor here is acting fundamentally unamerican, why? i think that what unions stand for are democratic rights in the workplace and in society. unions provide rights such as due process, and just cause rights from termination, which are not having anything to do with wages and benefits and ....