but whether it really means that we will be seeing - a greater escalation of armed hostilities, i m not sure. and on that question of overcoming nazism, all three of you have now mentioned the analogy with the 30s and 40s. have we learnt the lessons, do you think, from the 30s? do you detect in the response to putin s actions towards ukraine a sense of that history and of not allowing the mistakes of the past to be repeated? well, obviously, it has taken a while, hasn t it? and we are now all feeling that the end of history has not arrived and i think particularly for germany, whose position has been fascinating in this period, that has been a big wake up call and i do actually think that although the germans have been quite sluggish on oil and gas, where they are really exposed because they have spent 20 years, unfortunately, ignoring the possibility of this threat, actually scholz has reversed quite a lot of merkel s policy quite quickly. so, i think although we can all complain,
the independent - outlets are all gone. they have fled to other places or have just completely shut down - altogether and therefore, alternate messages are not getting through. and as isabel- was saying in terms of the message he wants to put out there, perhaps there might| be a victory to celebratej if the russian forces can finally rout those final- holdout defenders in mariupol. but absent that, it has been almost a disaster for russia | in many ways, but you are not going to see that, i don t - think, in any of the russian . propaganda that gets put out. will there be an actual. escalation of hostilities? that, i think, also is unclear. i think putin, as unpredictable as he might be, also - is not completely mad i and knows that continued losses, which will be harderl and harder to hide, would be difficult to sustain - and so, i think we will certainly see a lot ofjingoism and nationalism on display. and it is, as you say, - a central point of russian identity in terms of. over
completely shut down - altogether, and therefore l alternate messages are not getting through and as isabel was saying in terms - of the message he wants to put out there, perhaps there might| be a victory to celebrate, if the russian forces cani finally rout those final- holdout defenders in mariupol, but absent that, it has been almost a disaster for- russia in many ways, - but you are not going to see that, idon t think, l in any of the russian propaganda that gets put out. will there be an actual. escalation of hostilities? that, i think also is unclear, l i think putin, as unpredictable as he might be, also is not. completely mad, and knows that continued losses, - which will be harder and harder to hide, would be difficult to sustain and so i think. we will certainly see a lot . ofjingoism and nationalism on display and it is, - as you say, a central point of russian identity, in terms of overcoming nazism, but whether it really means we will be seeing a greaterl
escalation of armed - hostilities, i m not sure. on that question of overcoming nazism, all three of you have now mentioned the analogy with the 30s and 40s, have we learnt the lessons, do you think, from the 30s? do you detect in the response to putin s actions towards ukraine a sense of that history and of not allowing the mistakes of the past to be repeated? obviously it has taken a while, hasn t it? we are now all feeling that the end of history has not arrived and i think particularly for germany, whose position has been fascinating in this period, that has been a big wake up call and i do actually think that although the germans have been quite sluggish on oil and gas, where they are really exposed, because they have spent 20 years unfortunately ignoring the possibility of this threat, actually scholz has reversed quite a lot of merkel s policy quite quickly. so i think although we can all complain, i think the eu and europe have galvanised
alternate messages are not getting through and as isabel was saying in terms - of the message he wants to put out there, perhaps there might| be a victory to celebrate, if the russian forces cani finally route those final - holdout defenders in mariupol, but absent that, it has been almost a disaster for- russia in many ways, - but you are not going to see that, idon t think, l in any of the russian propaganda that gets put out. will there be an actual. escalation of hostilities? that, i think also is unclear, l i think putin, as unpredictable as he might be, also is not. completely mad, and knows that continued losses, - which will be harder and harder to hide, would be difficult to sustain and so i think. we will certainly see a lot . ofjingoism and nationalism on display and it is, - as you say, a central point of russian identity, in terms of overcoming nazism, but whether it really means we will be seeing a greaterl escalation of armed - hostilities, i m not sure. on that questi