don t know. i mean, it s a good question. i think understanding why a jury reaches a verdict is something that every single trial lawyer in the country would love to be able to answer honestly look, a lot goes into a jury verdict that doesn t even include what happened at the trial. the decisions that are made before the trial, the decisions that the court makes, and that the parties decide about witnesses a call, what evidence to put in i think that at the end of the day it remains true that if the word of michael cohen was not accepted at all, then you could not have convicted president trump. and the jury convicted. so at the end of the day they they looked past what we thought were were fatal flaws and mr. cohen s story and his past and they ve reached a guilty verdict right. but it wasn t just the word of michael cohen. i mean, there was other evidence in this case, the documents they wanted to rehear, david pecker s testimony. i mean, they took all of that into consid