reality that a pro-west anti-russia ukraine that is not in nato could actually be worse for russia. explain that for us? absolutely. the fear that maybe ukraine and maybe belarus will join nato. and the western military infrastructure moves towards russian borders. but now, we see this infrastructure moving closer to russia. without ukraine joining nato. and in less predictable way. in more, like, real and long term and less predictable way which have possible western vessels and aircrafts and the army trained to fight russia back. i mean, ukrainian army. so it s not it s better nato for russia for moscow. so nato would offer some sort of moderating influence, i guess on ukraine.