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president heard secondhand, thirdhand and fourthhand from other people. in other words, rumors. well, cult is an interesting turn of phrase there. these are not going to be thirdhand hearsay witnesses. next week we ll hear from people who heard the alleged impeachable offenses firsthand from donald trump s own mouth. joining me is larry fifer, senior director of the white house situation room and former chief of staff of the cia. so great to see you in person. the last time i spoke with you, it was about the call itself. we talked about this on lawrence o donnell s show. as someone who ran the situation room, this is your job. what is the setup normally? how many people listen to the call, listen to the president on the phone and would you ever expect for a phone to call, incoming, to the president on his cell phone. when it comes to head of state calls you ll have a lot more people listening in on the phone than a call from another u.s. government official. but when a u.s. governm
finger directly at trump in the harebrained plot to extort ukraine into investigating the bidens to help trump in 2020 and boosting a conspiracy theory to clear russia of meddling in the 2016 election. and today the associated press and the washington post report a second official was sitting at the table and overheard sondland and trump discussing the need for ukraine to pursue those investigations. each citing a single anonymous source. nbc news has confirmed that the official was accompanying sondland during his visit but has not confirmed whether she overheard the call. and joining us now is democratic congressman danny heck from washington. he s a member of the house intelligence committee who will be attending the yovanovitch hearing and the holmes deposition tomorrow. and larry fifer, former director
over his head when you stop to think about they were doing was their bidding. they were trying to with hold security assistance to the ukrainians, it was to the benefit of the russians. so i m not sure they would blackmail him with doing their job. it does feel like as speaker pelosi said, everything does seem to come back to russia with him. what do you make of that as a member of congress, as an american? all roads lead to russia so it seems. well, we don t know. and i can t help but feel if more of the documents we had subpoenaed had been presented to us or if for example his tax returns had been revealed we might have more information what it is what is his obsession with vladimir putin and assisting the russians despite their maligned intent and their aggression in eastern ukraine? yeah, it is a puzzle. congressman denny heck, larry fifer, thank you both. and coming up while the trump administration is trying to avoid questions from the senate about the president s confl
bidens to help trump in 2020 and boosting a conspiracy theory to clear russia of meddling in the 2016 election. and today the associated press and the washington post report a second official was sitting at the table and overheard sondland and trump discussing the need for ukraine to pursue those investigations. each citing a single anonymous source. nbc news has confirmed that the official was accompanying sondland during his visit but has not confirmed whether she overheard the call. and joining us now is democratic congressman danny heck from washington. he s a member of the house intelligence committee who will be attending the yovanovitch hearing and the holmes deposition tomorrow. and larry fifer, former director of the white house situation room where he managed president obama s phone calls with other heads of state. he s the forther chief of staff to the director of the cia. congressman, i want to play you a little bit of yourself questioning mr. kent about
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