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So, we know that that s not who he is talking to in that moment, or at least that s how i discern the timeline of it from, the hearing today. so, who else was he talking to that was more important than learning in the first instance, in realtime, while he s getting in the car that s about to move, that the capital is being violently overrun? who was more important to continue talking to in that moment? i think that s what they re connecting. so, who are these operational people? the fact that some people who should have known better, or still actually concerned by how back it was, does weed credibly. but you cannot throw yourself a surprise party. yes. [laughs] if you know what you re doing, and mark meadows, donald trump, and a few others, according to the evidence, did not seem surprised because this was either the direct plan, or the thing that they saw as a distinct eventuality of possibility. the other point i want to share with you, rachel, is, there have been parts of this ....
that s it. and mike pence, next door to mark meadows office having no idea that he s being set on essentially to be either forced, bludgeoned, if trump had gotten into that room, can you imagine him getting into the house of representatives, what would mike pence have done? could have made the same decision that he ultimately made, facing trump and a mob? i think, you know, trump thought he could, and that he was getting used as a mob item. but here s the thing that i don t get still is meadows. okay, let s just talk about matters for a second because the picture of meadows is very consistent throughout, and it s been in some ways consistent throughout the hearings. there is roughly some caps you know about. there is the pro coup people. we know that giuliani, we know that peter giuliani, banning all those folks. representative frequent host. yeah, peter navarro. you know, we know who the pro coup people are, we know with anti coup people are. there s cipollone in the white h ....
Really happen? yes, that really happened. we are here for you tonight. today, at the hearing, there was but a single witness, the first trump white house official to testify at one of his live hearings. the trump administration white house staffer, named cassidy hutchinson. she had an office inside the west wing. she was a special assistant to president trump, and an adviser to white house chief of staff mark meadows. she worked very closely with mark meadows on a day-to-day basis. at the outset of the hearing, interestingly, that investigations chairman, congressman benny thompson, despite a little map, showing how the west wing s laid out, to show both how small overall the west wing is, and also, how cassidy hutchinson s desk was physically right in the middle of the action that she described during her testimony today. it ended up being unexpectedly helpful, piece of orientation, and that was a recurring theme today. that idea of physical proximity, understanding the geography and ....
Then, we know there is these kind of like, i don t have anything to do with it cowards, right? which is kind of what ivanka and jarred looked like, and if your mother of the campaign role of lawyers, but what they do know is, this is dangerous, and probably bad for a purely cia reason i m not gonna touch it. if it works, i m not gonna look like i was working against it. but if it doesn t work, i don t get butler something, meadows as the only one that in any of those three categories as established yet. it s just unclear where he is at. i think he is pro coup, but he is clearly the way station for all these different voices. he doesn t seem to be articulating the basic kind of self preservation instinct that many other people, like cipollone, like you can t do this. it s just this bizarre cipher, and i just don t but we got more it was delivered with stunning clarity in one of the last lines of the hearing, which is, mark meadows, knows ....
He was absolutely sure that he would be fine if the bags were taken down, come in with your ar-15s, guys. i think we have 1 million more questions. this almost begins phase two of the committee s public hearings. nicole, in terms of what was described between cassidy hutchinson and the deputy white house chief of staff, the deputy white house chief of staff for operations, talking about security. him saying that he had briefed the president on the presence of weapons among the crowd. he had briefed white house chief of staff mark meadows. those interrelated communications, it sounds to me from the way you are talking about this, like those run true in terms of those lines of communications, and the way they happen. we also had stuff that was very much outside anything that you would plan for. bursts of presidential temper, the president during his lunch plate around. pulling tablecloths off of tables so that stuff went frying. valleys having to clean things, up not just in describing ....