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America over the course of the last 20 years, up until the most recent report, the actual murders and crimes committed with guns are going down. so there s no there s all crimes going down in that period, just to be clear. right. yes. but that s the question which just means that the guns don t equal the crime. no. but clearly well, you can see that clearly there is something that happens in america with respect to gun violence that is exceptional. i mean, it is empirically an exceptional nation vis-a-vis gun ownership and gun violence. and i think if people want to make the argument that we should embrace that exceptionalism, we have a second amendment and we are exceptional, we are exceptional in gun ownership, exceptional in gun pride, and exceptional in gun deaths, then make that argument, but that is the argument, isn t it? it is not embracing it to state that there is no conceivable public policy solution that actually would stop it. that s not the same as shrug ....