seen is that these are some kind of exchanges with kurt volker about what he was doing in terms of ukraine and in terms of his own contacts. i think what he had been hoping to show was that state department officials and this gets to part of what pompeo has been frustrated by, that state department officials knew what giuliani was doing. there was some effort not by the president but by others in the government to try to act like he was doing this on his own for awhile. i think giuliani who has seen any number of people around the president get cut off and described as they were acting on their own is trying to make clear that was not the case. and it is clear that s not the case. now, whether he was leading people and whether they felt pressured to participate or whether everybody was on the same page, i think we re going to hear more in the coming days. but there s no question that giuliani had other people working with him in the government. all right. i want to take the 30,000 fo