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If let s say russia starts to have significant losses, and the cost just get really high, the incentive for them to negotiate something that is the face saving, excuse me, it s going to be front and center. on the other hand, if ukrainians look like they are about to lose it all, being at the negotiating table and cutting the best deal they can, is not front and center for them. negotiations are also a function of where are you on the field. and i think that still very cloudy. and that is why you believe the west strategy and the ukrainian strategy has to be to raise the cost for putin and russia so high that he wants to be at that table, and he wants to cut a deal to basically stand down. let me ask you, finally, sir, before i let you, go yeah the president of the nato parliamentary assembly, which is the legislative arm of nato, ....
Has already gone. what would you say, and i know the official administration s point is ultimately this is a negotiation between ukraine and russia and certainly what ukrainians are willing to accept. you outlined some of them. but let me ask you from a slightly different perspective, what would be a red line for us? what would be something the united states specific lee perhaps broadly speaking, nato or the eu, could not accept as an outcome for this conflict? we do not have, sadly, at this point, a real red line. but, as you mentioned, as congressman connally mentioned, this is it they re up to people like myself and many others who have been with i think now we understand that. and now, understanding it, i suspect a red line for us would wind up being, whether or not we see it, that putin cannot have full control over ukraine s national security ....
Territorial segers. so of course, we want to use those sanctions to achieve a fair settlement which respects ukrainian separate sovereignty and territorial integrity. if moscow were to remove all of its troops and maybe restore at least the situation to where it existed, four weeks ago, and of course russia has crimea, and parts of ukraine which eastern ukraine, that i think that we should be prepared to consider a removing a fair number of the sanctions. but only a fair number because moscow is still responsible for at least a half a trillion dollars of damage to ukrainian territory, ukrainian assets, and for the death of thousands of ukrainians. and they should certainly pay a high price for that too. maybe the forfeiture of all of their assets that have been frozen in the west has a price. this is something for ukraine to determine. but if i can make one more point, i think we need to make clear that right now, we ve seen no flexibility in the russian position. you have on the one ....
Policy, such as he can place forces in ukraine s west, again, right up along the border with four nato nations. for i know a major part of the peace talks appears to be that ukraine making a formal declaration of neutrality and accepting limits on its armed forces, would that be a workable condition or with that in itself be a violation of ukrainian sovereignty, and a threat to europe? look, ultimately, the decision on the questions like that would be ukraine s, not america s, and certainly not mine as a former official. the with no official status right now. but, i don t think ukraine will agree and i don t think that ukraine will have to agree, and to conditions that make them vulnerable to future russian invasion. with that in mind, it s hard for me to imagine, in fact, ukrainians have said this, that they would not accept disarmament. moscow s already proved to be ....
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