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is very interesting, because so many republicans had their hopes pinned on somebody like desantis who would come and dethrone trump. but what desantis has shown is the more people know about him, the less they like him. and from a policy standpoint, he is so outside of the mainstream of what this country wants, i don t think he has a chance. yeah, olivia, what happened to ron desantis? they re claiming they have time to reboot this ccampaign. to her point, have i been criticized by colleagues who are upset with me that i have not gotten behind desantis. it s because i ve been in the room with desantis. i ve seen what ron desantis. i see the way he treated people. i saw the way he treated mike pence. i saw the personality of a doormat too. he is not the leader i m looking for, especially with these extreme policies that he is pushing where most of america does not want that. you know, even moderate republicans, people are leaving the gop because of republicans like desantis, because
fact that all these inner circle people were pressured, and the fact that he himself were in meetings where he was bullied. and that meeting in december where they had discussions about what the plan was. i think what s disturbing about this is mike pence wants to be president. i know fa for a fact. this is a dream of his. but if that s how you re going to behave now by continuing to enable someone like that and you re seeking the higher office, what does that say about the kind of leader you re going to be when you can t even call him out directly for this attempt to impact our democracy and overturn our election? what does that say about the type of leader you re going to be then? and maria, florida governor ron desantis is not in sold on the day that it was an insurrection. he has been saying this in recent days. let s listen to what he had to say to the actor russell brand. it was not an insurrection. these are people that were there to attend a rally, and then they were there
raffensperger. act two, when all that fails, you re left with the phony certificates. squeeze mike pence the morning of the 4th to the 6th. when that fails, the violence. this is an important part of act 1. and trump declined to come and talk to the d.c. grand jury. his newest defense attorney said there was no need for him to the that. let s play a little bit of that. president trump did absolutely nothing wrong. he has done nothing criminal, and he has made his case that he was entitled to take these positions as president of the united states when we saw all these election discrepancies and irregularities going on, he did what any president was required to do because he took an oath to do exactly that. what do you think of that? that s my friend john laura. we practice law today as defense lawyers, and jim, he is doing what is in the proud tradition since john adams defended the red coats, defending his client.
and asserting that i had the right to overturn the election. but what his intentions were. and as you know, criminal charges have everything to do with intent on what the president s state of mind was. and i don t honestly know what his intention was that day, whether as he spoke to that crowd, ahe tweeted during the riot itself. a trd criminal indictment for trump would add to what is already a packed political and legal schedule. as you can see here, he ll be juggling both priorities in january, march right up until may at the very least. joining us now with more cnn legal analysts and former white house ethics czar norm ice man. he was co-counsel for the judiciary committee during the first trump impeachment. norm, ambassador eisen, great to see you. let me ask you what mike pence was just saying there a few moments ago about intent. is that accurate that that s the whole ball game? there is a lot more from what i understand that could be going into all this, what the prosecutors