education. and they owe an average of $25,000 more than white college grads four years after graduation. undergraduate women take on more student loan debt than men. and women have more debt from graduate studies too. so what is the best way to help? let s debate this with two important voices on this issue, natalian ial abrams from the stt debt crisis center and christopher morfu from the dean of school education. thank you both for your time tonight. and so natalia, i want to start with you. president biden says $50,000 in debt reduction as we just heard there, per borrower, is not on the table. he made that very clear. and you say forgiving $10,000 is not enough. and that is what we are told the administration is considering. why is that? why is that not enough?