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are inherent in marbury versus madison are like delivering a seal when requested, because there is a separate statute, and the secretary of the state had two of the hats on and he was on one hand the direct agent of the president, and that could never be examinable by the courts, but on the other hand, the original statute had imposed all of the purely ministerial duties that had to do with the recordkeeping and delivering of documents and if you had a land deed that had a seal on it, and the person asked for it no, discretion at all, but the take-care clause, there is no statute that could impose on the president, a, a mandatory duty to engage, and the notion that when the president is meeting with the department of justice and enforce federal fraud statutes and that being ministerial strikes me as insupportable. well, i think that you are missing what i am asking. which is, i think that it is paradoxical to say that his constitutional duty to take care of the laws b ....
along with analysts chuck rosenberg and lisa rubin. what can we expect based on arguments put forward in advance by both sides? reporter: to set the scene, because donald trump is here in person the security has really been ramped up. there s a much greater police presence. in terms of in the courtroom, this is a long shot for donald trump, this idea that a former president can t be prosecuted for any acts whited while serving in offense, it s belied by the fact that gerald ford pardoned richard nixon. this three-judge panel is an all-female panel with two judges appointed by president biden and one appointed by former president george h.w. bush. in addition to arguing immunity, trump lawyers are also making the argument that this produce is improper under double jeopardy. ken, i need to interrupt you because the hearing is starting. let s listen in right now. our jurisdiction was challenged by an amicus. you are not questioning our collateral order jurisdiction? ....
Been held criminally liable, and that s in the face at least with the respect of the legislators of an explicit constitutional privilege. i don t view the united states versus johnson or ex parte of virginia as discretionary distinction and what johnson says is that it does not say, hey, when you were doing these other things that were ministerial, it is legislative acts, it is drawing between legislative and nonlegislative acts and that is the right reading of ex parte virginia and they go on the say judicial acts and the argument of picking a jury and they don t use the words to my recollection ministerial that is because they were criminal acts and picking the jury picked on race is a criminal act, and whatever johnson did, and i believe it is the very same statute fraud against the united states that is before us today. and i would say that distinction in those cases is in the judicial case johnson led ....
And that s in the face at least with respect to the legislators of an explicit constitutional privilege. i don t view united states against johnson ex parte as resting on the ministerial versus discretionary distinction. what johnson says, it doesn t say hey when you were doing these other things, they were ministerial, what it says is these were not legislative acts. to draw the distinction between legislative and nonlegislative acts, i think that s the right reading of ex parte virginia. they say judicial act. the argument of picking a jury, i don t believe they use the word to my recollection ministerial, they say because they were picking the jury based on race is a criminal act. and whatever johnson did, i think it was the very same statute, fraud against the united states, that is before us today. i would say the distinction in those cases is between in the judicial case johnson sorry legislative the legislative ....
Case johnson is between legislative acts and nonlegislative acts. the distinction in ex parte virginia is between judicial acts and nonjudicial acts. that phrase is used in here, the distinction is between presidential acts and nonpresidential acts and everything that is alleged in the indictment is a presidential act. your honor go ahead. may i? there are a number of precedents or cases in which the supreme court has reviewed actions by the president. the case of youngstown by the supreme court reviewed harry truman s seizure of the steel mills during the korean war. there is the case of little buream where chief justice marshall reviewed the actions of president adams when he seized certain vessels. how does that square with your ....