joining me now is lilah howson smith, from global counsel, which reported on behalf of the food and drink federation on the causes and effects of a shortage of c02 in 2018. lilah, thank you forjoining us on bbc news. sometimes our memories are short, i don t know how many people remember the c02 shortages of 2018, it was the summer, the world cup, newspaper headline suggested that the pubs might run out of beer as football fans watch the games. different causes in 2018, i understand, but the same impact and a review the following year talked about a lack of resilience in the c02 supply chain. were any lessons learnt given we are in a c02 shortages then? no, not really. in a c02 shortage again. we shortages then? no, not really. in a c02 shortage again. we needed to look at diversifying in a c02 shortage again. we needed
later we are talking about c02 shortages again. do you think there is clear ownership of the problem in terms of sorting it out at government level? i terms of sorting it out at government level? i think the difficulty is government level? i think the difficulty is the government level? i think the difficulty is the various - government level? i think the - difficulty is the various components of the problem are owned by different government departments, you have the business secretary responsible for the fertiliser plants who would be looking at solutions via, but then you have defra who are separately looking up the supply chain issue and you may be happy cabinet office and number ten trying to coordinate the problem when it comes to shortages and the fact it has become a more serious, whiter problem. the issue is you are not necessarily in the medium or long term looking for solutions once the immediate shortage passes, i think it is really telling but fundamentally we have exac
it won t be just a grant, it won t be just a blank cheque, any support for those larger companies will be in terms of working capital, will be a loan. it won t be just a grant, it won t be just a blank cheque, it ll be something where if we do have this facility, if we do have this policy, they will be expected to pay back the loans, whereas in the case of a bailout, that s what it is, it s just a bailout where you grant money, taxpayers money, and the taxpayer doesn t see any return from that. so the business secretary talking about loans for that scenario, but let s look at the c02 shortages coming about as a result of the crisis. the government seems to potentially be talking about subsidies for the perth for the fertiliser plants that produce much of the c02 the uk users. this fertiliser plants that produce much of the c02 the uk users. of the c02 the uk users. this is a firm owned of the c02 the uk users. this is a firm owned two of the c02 the uk users. this is a firm ow
made. ., ., ., ~ ., made. you are talking about structural made. you are talking about structural problems, - made. you are talking about structural problems, taking l made. you are talking about - structural problems, taking clear ownership of what needs to be done and the development of schemes like carbon capture. many people will be listening to this slightly confused by the fact that we talk all the time about the need to reduce c02 time about the need to reduce co2 emissions, but here we are talking about c02 shortages? emissions, but here we are talking about c02 shortages? totally, and i think that is about c02 shortages? totally, and i think that is part about c02 shortages? totally, and i think that is part of about c02 shortages? totally, and i think that is part of the about c02 shortages? totally, and i think that is part of the problem, i think that is part of the problem, there is a perverse logic in the sense that we are talking about a supply of c02 which is