that. trump has already destroyed his presidency. and i think he ll destroy himself. but we have to give him the rope to do it. if we fall into the trap that all of the republicans did in 2016 and let trump be the issue of the day, we lose. because he s really good at that. he s a narcissist. he s really good at that. i don t agree. governor kasich? anderson, i don t agree with that that he ll self-destruct. i don t agree with that. but i think you have to have a refrain. i think you have to go back to it all the time. this is what you promised and what did you deliver? you delivered bubkes. that s what it s got to be. back and forth. but he s not just going to just fall apart on the stage. i was on the stage with him a lot of debates, i never took the bait. of course, i didn t win. but there s a lot of reasons for that, too. governor dean, governor kasich, really good discussion, i appreciate it. thank you. thank you. up next, what canada s prime minister, justin trudeau,
we re back now with breaking news tonight. michael flynn sat for 19 interviews with robert mueller s team. what he told them, giving prosecutors a road map for the russia investigation. josh campbell, harry litman and juliette kayyem rel back with me. this is what the president s lawyer rudy giuliani told nbc news tonight. he said there s a yiddish word that fits. he said. they don t have bubkes. he downplayed any concern what flynn may have said. fell had information to share with mueller, that hurt the president, you would know it by now. okay? and fox news says rudy giuliani likens the offense in the flynn guilty plea to spitting on the sidewalk with major repercussions for many. what does that even mean?
understandably. but legally speaking, this document, while it doesn t tell us exactly what s going on, the outlines suggest there is something real there. the note of caution from giuliani should be well taken. it is spin, but we still don t know. there is an expectation and there has been throughout that somehow this will have all of these arrows pointed at the president of the united states. we don t know if he s got any of that. and it is going to be a high bar politically, as well as legally. you could do a lot of legal work that has nothing to do ultimately with the president. politically could be different. and that note of caution is well taken. there is a difference between bubkes and oi vey. that, my friend, is a separate segment. all of it, that continuum, right there. let s use our guests here. put it in the fourth hour. all right, guys. thank you all for joining us this morning. now to, of course, our other
happy hanukkah. i didn t believe that he actually said it. i think giuliani knows bubkes. i think that was the first time i had seen it spelled out. bubkes. anyway, go on. so this is consistent with where giuliani giuliani is sort of out of the loop and then creates can these diversions about well, if we don t know the it now, then therefore we will never know it. the reality is we know it now. everyone s focused on the black lines and what they re editing out. those lines are telling us something significant. they are blacked out because there are significant ongoing investigations still. and then just to turn it a little bit or add one more thing, and yet mueller is comfortable telling a court now we do not want mike flynn to go to jail.
rudy giuliani told us in response to the flynn sentencing memo. he sort of tried to, i think, embrace the redactions, he noted, if flynn had information to share with mueller that hurt the president, you would know it by now. there s a yiddish word that fits, they don t have bubkes. i looked at the sentencing memo and it seems like if there is bubkes in there, it was redacted. does rudy giuliani even know would the president s team know what he has helped with yet? oh, i don t think that they would. they might suspect, maybe joyce would answer this better than me, but i don t think there s any reason to believe they have any idea what s underneath those redactions. you know, there s another tell elsewhere in that document, which is where mueller says that flynn s cooperation has essentially compelled other people in this investigation to be more forthcoming about information that they know. one thing i know from my own reporting is one person whose story changed a bit to