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MSNBC Katy Tur Reports November 19, 2021 19:16:00

With a long gun. but that is legally irrelevant to what provocation is. provocation is a very specific definition under wisconsin law. and you may think you can believe two things at the same time. you can believe kyle rittenhouse walking around with a gun was provoking to other people but conclude that it was not legal provocation. so the prosecution, at one point, when they were pressing kyle rittenhouse during the cross-examination, they said to him, yes, you felt your life was threatened, you say you felt your life was threatened, but when you re pointing a gun at somebody else, isn t that person feeling that their life is being threatened right now? it seems from watching it, such a complicated issue to try and parse out. who was feeling more threatened in the moment, and who has the right to act on the basis of self-defense? katy, you just honed in on the central and actually a very ....

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MSNBC Katy Tur Reports November 19, 2021 19:15:00

Defendant used more force than necessary. but late in the game, the prosecution scored a major victory that had some people like me thinking they could pull this out, that s when they got the provocation instruction. if the prosecution can prove that kyle rittenhouse provoked the confrontations. the prosecution would argue that he did not reacquire the right to use self-defense. but the challenge here, again, was that burden. it always rested with the prosecution. now, a lot of folks, i heard a lot of folks say, look, even today, kyle rittenhouse went there with a long gun, he was walking around. a lot of folks found that provoking. i agree. and i also agree kyle rittenhouse probably shouldn t have been not probably. should not have been walking around in kenosha that night ....

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MSNBC Katy Tur Reports November 19, 2021 19:10:00

In time, because people tend to think in broad terms, they tend to paint in broad brushes. if the message that people get out of this is that it s a good idea to come in the middle of civil unrest or protests with a long gun, that s not the right message, and that shouldn t be the message that came out of this trial. this case was very fact-specific. the bottom line is, is that kyle rittenhouse and other people came down to the kenosha area with long guns, with ar-15s, thinking they were helping people. and their help was really not that wanted by the rest of the community. i understand that they said they were trying to protect this car lot. but this car lot already had all the cars in it destroyed. and you could see as the testimony was coming in how ironically their presence was making things worse for the situation. so i think there is a real concern here that people are going to get the wrong message, that they can come down to these protests with long guns and it s a good idea be ....

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MSNBC Katy Tur Reports November 19, 2021 19:24:00

This was an issue that the defense had briefed and argued about for months before the trial, saying that there was an exception in the statute that applied where a 17-year-old could in fact possess a long gun, as long as it wasn t a short shotgun but could possess a long gun on the streets. it was briefed, it was argued, the judge ultimately denied the defense s motion to dismiss the count but then suddenly decides the argument has merit and decides to dismiss the count. he changed his decision midstream here. but it was a misdemeanor count, it was really the least of kyle rittenhouse s problems. from a legal standpoint he was justified in doing it, a lot of people in the legal community can see why he dismissed those counts. the judge had some high tension clashes with the prosecution at a few key moments during this case. judge schroeder is the oldest ....

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MSNBC Katy Tur Reports November 19, 2021 19:09:00

Or their testimony advanced the government s case. one witness testified that the first person who rittenhouse shot, a man named rosenbaum, tried to grab rittenhouse s gun. another witness said mr. rittenhouse shot a second person who was attacking him with a skateboard and a third person who he shot was pointing a gun at him. this will be a difficult case whether the prosecution is state or federal. julius, you are in wisconsin. you understand how wisconsin juries work, how the courtrooms work out there, and the reaction. in looking at what the reverend was just telling shaquille brewster there, the concern she had for protests in the future and the safety of peaceful protesters if somebody comes with a gun and says they do feel threatened, the precedent that she believes this case sets, what is your opinion on that? what s your expectation on that going forward? it s definitely something to be concerned about at this point ....

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