and is there a major difference between whether cohen s attorney might have asked for or might have wink wink nod nodded about a pardon, whether his lawyer did it or whether michael cohen did it directly? there is a distinction. if michael cohen did it directly, then you might be able to say he lied to congress. but there is a phenomenon with cooperating witnesses who have done a lot of wrong and then they plead guilty and agree to cooperate. and they try to start telling the truth. sometimes they start believing in their own righteousness. and it colors their recollection of whether they ever wanted a pardon or not. i think what is most important, it is not this nonsense about who asked for a pardon when. it is the corroboration of the signed checks by the president out of the white house which brings the conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws right into the oval office. that is a big deal.
we are finally doing our full oversight investigation work and i want to commend our chairman, chair than shman schiff, for do. and i think it is important to get to the bottom of the truth and follow the facts where they lead us. with regards though to the president s claim a few moments a go that michael cohen directly asked him for a pardon, what does that change? well, you know, i think that that if that is true, then that would obviously contradict what he said in public. and obviously i can t talk about what he said in the classified setting. but i think that we need to really wait to hear all the facts and follow the facts where they lead us. and then make a decision as to what we should do about it. and i did want to ask you about the legislation that you were sponsoring, hr-4. the voting rights advancement
president saying that michael cohen directly asked him for a pardon. this appears to be the first time that the president has made this claim. what is your reaction, what does this change? you know, i think that as an african-american in this country, we ve seen fwr african-americans sentenced far worse for less egregious actions. so we need to take a hard look at our criminal justice system especially when it comes to sentencing. the guide lines would have gotten 19 to 24 years. so for this judge to give these treacherous i mean he was a traitor frankly. and for him to get only four months four years sends a horrible message. so i think that we need to make sure that we get mueller s report and that that is unimpeded. we in the house intelligence committee, i m very happy that
michael cohen directly asked him for a pardon. trump saying his response was no, he lied again. however the idea that the two ever had a direct conversation, that this wasn t just talk between conversations, that would be a significant turn in this story. and i m joined now by our legal analyst, former federal prosecutor glenn kirchner. why is this a big deal? i don t think it is a big deal. michael cohen did say during his congressional testimony that he wasn t interested in a pardon, he didn t ask if a pardon and then we learned that maybe his lawyers talked to trump s lawyers. anytime you get lawyers involved in discussing possible dispositions of a case, benefits to a witness, it gets very murky. so i don t think cohen has put position in any legal jeopardy based on his testimony to congress.
he may have put himself in some more atmospheric jeopardy because it tends to tarnish his credibility a little more. but now we have the president directly weighing in and saying that he asked me for a pardon. whose credibility are you going to take. are you going to take cohen s, the president s, is it a push, neither one? neither one of them are particularly credible. but here is the interesting part. you want to say that cohen perjured himself in front of congress because he directly asked the president? you know how you prove that up? trump has to walk into a grand jury and swear to it under oath. that ain t going to happen. and you also althink i would assume that if michael cohen did directly ask the president of the united states for a pardon, maybe we would have hard about it before friday morning at 11:30. exactly. this occurred to him, popped into his head, another way he thought he could dirty up cohen by stretching the truth if not outright fabricateding.