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standoff between its allies. lloyd austin meeting with european defense ministers at ramstein air base in germany. we are also, though, just getting in some breaking news, cnn white house reporter natasha bertrand, oren liebermann joining us. what are you hearing potentially about what more we re learning? even this secret meeting that the cia director held last week with president zelenskyy? yeah, so about the meeting between ukrainian president zelenskyy and cia director bill burns we are learning that burns went there really to brief the ukrainian president on what the u.s. believes are the potential battle plans by russia to launch an offensive in the spring. now, of course, bill burns has been a very key emissary between the u.s. and ukraine as well as even with russia over the course of the war and this really just signifies the urgency the u.s. feels in this moment getting ukraine the information the intelligence it needs ahead of this potential russian offensi ....
Defense so those fractures have become evident. prigozhin claiming wagner is the most effective fighting force russia has right now and this is why they ve gotten so much attention not only over the course of the past few weeks but longer as they have become primarily one of russia s key weapons in the fight in eastern ukraine. stay with me. i also want to bring in retired lieutenant general mark hertling joining us. cnn military analyst and former commanding general of the seventh army. when you hear the new reporting as to what s going to happen, curious your reaction to what we re waiting to hear from the white house and what the potential impact could be. a cou first, wagner is a transnational criminal organization. what oren described is sort of a scenario out of sopranos. the russian government is ....
Criminal organization? it will continue to open up avenues where we not only sanction wagner and put more squeeze on their act to do business around the world but will assist others in doing the same. it will broaden the network of nations and institutions that will be able to stop doing business with wagner. and can i ask one other question on ukraine. what is the level of frustration here at the white house over germany s position on giving tanks to ukraine especially since germany doesn t have to give their own tanks, they just have to allow another country to send tank to ukraine. we re working not only in lockstep with ukrainians but partners and allies all over the world and these are all decisions that each nation makes for itself. sovereign decisions. we aren t arm-twisting. and nobody is arm-twisting us. we are working inside what you could consider a coalition of ....
Military into a western-style high-tech counteroffensive force? it s all coming together well in this phase and i m watching very closely in terms of what the ramstein contract group can deliver to ukrainen army. there s also the question of in terms of things we re watching closely would be the reaction from russia. not only to whatever we learn out of ramstein, right, but also to the expected designation when it comes to wagner and what the impact could be on a response from russia. yeah, and there s been, you know, a continued comment by mr. putin and now the former president, medvedev who are saying, hey, if russia does lose a conventional war the next step would be the use of nuclear weapons. well, that s becoming an old song for russia. they continue to threaten the use of nuclear weapons and they know that the potential for a retaliation or even a preemptive ....
Corrupt. they are relying on these paramilitary organizations to recruit criminals from prison putting them on the battlefield and having them attack en masse so that literally tens of thousands of them are killed used as meat grinders so what you re talking about is a military that hasn t been able to execute their war plans. have not been good tactically, operationally or strategically on the battlefield so they rely on prigozhin and his wagner group and it s causing a great deal of consternation within the pentagon itself, personalities are at each other s throats in moscow. having to do with cia director burns going to ukraine, giving additional information, you know, harken back to before the february invasion by russia into ukraine, burns had been to moscow several times, told them basically we knew what we were seeing them do, getting ready to prepare to attack into ukraine ....