captions by: caption colorado, llc (800) 775-7838 e-mail [email protected] from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original. for over two decades, the sharpest minds, what we can do for you. ♪ [music] ♪ issue one. i put up with a lot of stuff i didn't like because i thought at the end of the day, what's good about the bill outweigh what had's bad about the bill. >> vote no on obama's health insurance reform bill. the negatives outweigh the positives so says howard dean, md. dean says that the senate bill does nothing to reform health insurance because it does nothing to curb insurance costs. he is asking democrats to kill the bill. white house press secretary robert gibbs says in effect no bill before congress is ever perfect, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. >> how better do you address those that don't have insurance? passing a bill that covers 30 million that don't currently have it or killing a bill? i don't think any rational person would say killing a bill makes a whole lot of sense at this point. >> question. how big a setback is democrat howard dean's defection from the ranks of obama's health reform, pat buchanan? >> john, if it were just a defection, it wouldn't be a problem. but what he is saying this bill is a fraud. this is a sellout to the insurance company and he's really tainted the entire bill even if it passes. now, the country now, john, and first, howard dean, whether you agree with him or not is passionate on this issue. he know pz backward and forward. he's been committed to it and feels let down so he's authentic. this bill has got a problem because as of now, the country doesn't want it. they're gonna get this thing through, i think, but this bill is gonna wind up damaging the democratic party. one of the reasons is republicans are going to be quoting howard dean in november of 2010 putting that up there saying this bill is a sellout to the insurance companies. >> eleanor, can you describe how both ends of the democratic spectrum are dissatisfied? >> because you have to get 60 votes in the senate and they need every, single democrat. you've got a spectrum that goes from left to right. i think people have forgotten that the u.s. congress is a lot more conservative than it was because moderates have been purged from the republican party and democrats in winning their majority have elected a lot of conservatives. this is the reality they're facing in the senate. howard dean has a lot of credibility because he is a physician, and a lot of his criticisms are valid, but there's still a lot of good things in this bill. why are the republicans so desperate to kill it that they try to filibuster a defense authorization bill funding the troops until 1:00 in the morning in an effort to slow down the process in the senate so they could derail health care reform? >> because between 60 and 70% -- >> that's to let you know this bill should pass. >> 60 and 70% of the american people disapprove of what the democrats have proposed. look, howard dean's point here. i agree with pat he's a true believer and i give him credit for that because he's out there taking the slings and arrows on this, but he is right. this whole thing has turned into a train wreck. this is blue on blue mayhem. this is about as chaotic a process as anything we have seen ever come out of washington and the chaos is always on the democratic side. every time hair ray reid thinks he's got the votes, someone pops up. so harry reid is busy running around playing whack a mole. and the result is a proposal that is an incoherent mess that howard dean is right, does not fix the system and costs way too much. >> liberals in the democratic party don't like it because they want public option. conservatives don't like it because it sounds like limitless entitlement that's irrevokable. so the problem has been tainted here in its true dimension is republicans. but it's also a democratic problem for the president,it not? >> dean has voiced that. this bill has more negatives than it has positives. >> dean didn't say that. dean had good things to say about the gill, even the stripped down version in his bid, and he suggested that john kerry's alternative, which is state-run exchanges should be added to the bill or perhaps reconciliation. >> what is dean's bottom line? does he like obama care in a reasonably present form? >> no, he doesn't want to see the sellout to the insurance companies. he wants a public option that a that is -- and he's got a good shows president obama's job approval ratingweek shows president obama's job approval rating is 47%, nine points from six months ago. it's the fifth poll this month that has the president's approval below 50%. question. what does this show about the health plan -- >> it shows that the american people have. watching what seems to them a spectacle on capitol hill as they take the bill -- hold the bill hostage. one senator at a time trying to extract their goodies for anywhere parochial interest. it's not a pretty process. it happens to be the one that the founding fathers gave us. every one of those senators is in power, and when you need 60 votes, you can't afford to alienate any one of them. i do believe we're gonna get a bill -- >> quickly. >> over 38 million more americans that creates knees insurance exchanges. >> john -- >> pat -- >> nen i'm going to invoke senator ted kennedy. if he were here, and we certainly miss him a lot. woe say, you take what you can get and then you build on it. that's why the republicans sore desperate to stop this -- >> john, the american peopleis there and the right track wrong track poll. this week it shows pessimism in america is back. 55% of americans believe the country is headed in the wrong direction. you know the way that the head swung around earlier under george bush. >> 10% unemployment, 25% of mortgages are behind. 10% of them are under water. their hooking at a 1.4 twrl dollar deficit and here these guys are with a big, new teen itlement program. they think the democratic party [ all talking at once ] >> in washington that their representatives in washington and the executive branch and on the hill are not representing their interests. isn't that what's behind this wrong track? >> we're missing one big point to public reaction to this bill. when you question people in polls about specific benefits that the bill offers, their support surges. it's only when i saw the overall bill because people are thinking hike eleanor is thinking talking about the fighting that they see on the evening news and all of the negatives that have been said. this bill is neutral -- >> nobody believes that. clarence they don't believe it. >> let him finishp. >> it support theirs argument, pat. >> the polls show -- i heard you. >> it will be -- [ all talking at once ] >> all right, fine. the polls say the american people think it's gonna increase the deficit overwhelmingly. >> you're talking health? >> talking about -- >> they're talking about the health plan. >> you can seriously believe this. you can expand entitlement. >> i know the same arguments were made by the earl i had 90s. the budget is what you want to make it. >> medicare costs three times as much as they said it would cost. >> 31 million. >> all right -- >> 31 million people without health insurance is a moral and also an economic challenge. and if you bring everybody into the insurance pool it does over the long run even out costs. >> we wouldn't be having this argument. >> the american people want health care reform. they do not want a radical remaking. that's why they're rethinking. president obama has sliding poll numbers. the poll numbers are directly related to unemployment, home foreclosures, and it looks like the president is off in the weeds on health care. >> all right. exit question. exit question. this is mob ruled here today. chicago. a feisty debate, isn't it? question. is how wrt dean right? will it cost the democrats more at the polls than it gained by the legislation? >> that's exact i had right. he's exactly right. it's gonna hurt the democratic party and deservingly so. >> you think they'll get it by 3/31 december? >> i think it's going to have problems in conference. the house is gonna have to swallow and take at senate bill or it's over. >> eleanor? >> the president will get a historic victory this is and the actual bill is described. the republicans aren't gonna give up. they're going to run for overturning this, repealing it, and it will be set up -- that's right,nd medicare and social security were victories in the past. inthink this will join in that. >> this week, president clinton was down in washington again warning the senate and democrats if they don't do this they will face a situation where the republicans came back. they're missing the point. the reason the democrats lof the house in '94 was because they even tried to do this kind of health care reform. the democrats seem intent on flying this suicide mission. obama has lost the left. he's lost the right, and he's losing the center. this is a prescription for political disaster. >> what do you think should be done with the 35 million uninsured? >> the republicans have real competition about lowering the state barrier -- >> how about also the bundling in an association? that's government regulated. >> yes, and that's more architecture. >> so you don't like that. >> no, i don't like that, either. >> private sector. >> really afraid of that this will pass and it will be as popular as medicare and social security and other they denounce. >> yes, and we're going broke. >> people are willing to pay for it. >> you know what may roll back the tide? it doesn't fit the mood of the country at this time. they really don't want all of this big debt piled on. >> what the country wants is a washington that gets something done. >> no, what what want -- >> as soon as we can get this out of the way, we can focus on jobs. >> i think dean is right. when we come back, in the heart of texas. when planning for retirement these days, the forecast is full of ifs. if i'm too exposed to downturns. if i'll go through my savings too fast. to help you feel more confident consider putting a portion of your savings in a metlife variable annuity. when the market goes up, it gives your assets a potential to grow. while protecting you if the market goes down with a steady stream of income. let america's number one annuity provider help you stay on course with guarantees for the if in life. get answers about annuities at metlife.com. remember when connections to the internet sounded like this - when high speed internet was out of reach of most american families and small businesses? 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>> her rival intended to make it an issue in the campaign, but she's been elected six times previously. she's a very competent public servant and i think the city endorses her, not that texas is going to turn blue overnight it shows the urging split, and the progressive attitudes in the city like houston the fourth largest in the country says something about the attitudes of americans who live in these more cosmopolitan places. >> her opponent was jane locke. he accused her of having a gay agenda. that was the nature of what he was saying about her. do you have anything to report on this, pat? what is your take? >> there have been gay mayors of american cities that everybody knees, john, that just have not been out of the pocket. a agree with eleanor. this is apparently a competent woman, a democrat, on her side of the fence. i don't think it's that big a deal. it would be a bigger deal if she were running on a big gay agenda if gay marriage and things like that. i think she'd be be in trouble. apparently, she said look, i want to be the mayor, and i've got the qualifications and ability, and yes, i'm gay. i don't think most million real >> she also spoke to the issues that matter to the folks in houston, and they judged her base odden merit and her long record in the private sector helped her because she was out there talking about jobs and trying to turn around houston's economy. since she spent all that time in the private sector, in the energy sector, she really brought a lot to the table, i > the d.c. option. >> everyone. [ cheers and applause ] >> this week, another front. they mowerched in the bat over same sex marriage, the d.c. city council overwhelmingly approved a lou allowing gays civil marriage. congress has 30 days to veto the new law, unlikely. in all probability, z.c. will be issuing licenses in march, 2010, three months away. what's my question? don't all yet at once, i'll give it to you. how much momentum will gay rights in d.c. generate for gay rates in the nation? monica? >> none. every time gay marriage has come up in every single state, it has lost. a total of 31 states, every time it's been brought up for a popular vote, it has lost. now you are a vort of people in a handful of states that legalized gay marriage. massachusetts, new hampshire, vermont, new hampshire and iowa. now the district of column that. when you put it to a vote, the majority of americans even in big states like new york and california, they voted it down. >> she was comptroller in texas for three or four years and had a political job before that. so it looks like this was a nonissue. >> don't mix up these two things. one, you're talking about a competent individual, candidate running for office. >> right. >> she shouldn't be discriminated against because she's gay versus gay marriage. >> was gay marriage prohibited in texas? why is gay marriage prohibited in texasp in. >> more supportive of gay marriage. that's become the last stand. [ all talking at once ] >> no, this isn't, but this is a matter of whether the public will vote for it or not. monica's right, so far it's been defeated, but the polls have moved much fastener favor of gay marriage over the last decade, and i respect it. i think in the next tenures -- >> john -- >> can you take note of an issue which may be possible to be associated with what we have in hand z but in new hampshire, there's a repeal effort going on to remove the status of adultery as a crime. did you know that? >> well it's possible. >> do you know of any other -- >> the libertarians -- [ all talking at once ] >> do you want to link these two up in any way? >> las vegas las vegas, they denied it the people a vote on the gay marriage thing. the african-american community which voted 70% against gay marriage in california would kill this proposal. that's how they win, john. >> tell me that again. the african-american community -- >> ministers in d.c. would come out and kifl gay marriage if it were put on the ballot. they denied the ballot. >> only the council brought it forward? >> exactly. >> do you think it would have been killed if it were are in d.c. >> i think what you're talking about is you have a much higher percentage of evangel grikal ministers who campaign, crusade against gay marriage. when you have an effective campaign -- >> the council is not going to go in and force these ministers to perform gay marriages. the real confrontation comes with the catholic church, which is saying they're not going to accept government money to run their social services if they have to abide by these rules. that's going to be an interest rg -- >> don't you think any minister who declines to do a gay marriage will be sued in if the -- >> it's a first heament. we'll be right back with predictions. when planning for retirement these days, the forecast is full of ifs. if i'm too exposed to downturns. if i'll go through my savings too fast. to help you feel more confident consider putting a portion of your savings in a metlife variable annuity. when the market goes up, it gives your assets a potential to grow. while protecting you if the market goes down with a steady stream of income. let america's number one annuity provider help you stay on course with guarantees for the if in life. get answers about annuities at metlife.com. british ten second pz. >> hillary clinton about $1 had 00 billion a year in foreign aid so they stop burning their forests. it will cause an explosion in the congress of the united states. >> a negative explosion? eleanor? >> there have been four democratic house retirements in as many weeks which makes republicans gleeful they will recapture the majority next november, but this have been 12 republican retirements so go figure. >> good point and it's unnoted. >> i think we'll see a bigger tsunami of democratic retirements than anyone predicts because they're look agent this road map here and they do not want to run for re- election again, but i predict that yemen will be the next al qaeda flash point and obama will have to deal with yemen. >> it has been in an ongoing basis, hasn't it? >> i agree with you. the public option is dead in the senate but the exchanges will return. >> i predict that both john paul stevens and ruth bader begins will step down from the united states supreme court next year. one of the two replacements supreme court members will be female. bye-bye. don't forget to follow us on facebook and twitter. last year, when you bought a new subaru during the share the love event, you h