Transcripts For WUSA Face The Nation 20240622

Dickerson with an impassioned sermon on race in america. Its all ahead on face the captioning sponsored by cbs im john dickerson. Its been a big week for news, and were going to try and get through all of it. We start with the Supreme Courts ruling on samesex marriage and chad give, the head of the Human Rights Campaign is with us. Chad, this was a big win for gays in america, for supporters of samesex marriage. So is the work done . No question the work is not done. And while this was a monumental leap forward in this country, we still have a long ways to go. In a majority of states in the country still today. After this ruling, you can be married at 10 00 a. M. , fired from your job by noon, and evicted from your home by 2 00 simply for posting that wedding photo on facebook. And so as you look at the battles ahead weve got to bring full and comprehensive nondiscrimination protects to everyone protections to everyone living in this country and thats the next battle to congress fwhoo what about the inch iation of the ruling itself in louisiana and in mississippi theres some slow walking going on there whats the latest on that . Well, look, this really was very clear. The ruling that was written by Justice Kennedy made very clear that every state has to move forward and all of the marriage bans must fall. And i expect thats going to happen quickly. I think what youre seeing is some folks trying to play a political game, asl was doing in louisiana. But i do expect that across this country very quickly every state and every city and every county will move swiftly to implement this historic ruling. Dickerson let me ask you about something the president said in his remarks in the rose garden. He said that those who have come so far on their journey to equality have a responsibility to reach back and help others. What obligation do you have to help others who may find this ruling troubling . Well, look, i think theres no question that we have been on the journey in this country a long journey, to move towards that more perfect union, as the president said. And, look, our laws have to treat everyone equally and thats what this ruling grants lgbt americans but we also have to acknowledge there are still folks who are coming along. But that is truly the lesson of this movement. As lgbt people have lived their lives openly and out at home, at work, at school and church, it has changed folks minds. Every day americans realize were the people next door. Were the fellow congregate seated next to you on the church pugh on a pew on the sunday morning. Were the police officer. Were the ceo. And when folks have come to know us theyve evolved and believed that we should all have equal rights, not special rights, but equal rights. Thats the lesson of this country, and thats the journey that will continue. Dickerson all right, chad griffin. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. Dickerson on the other side of the issue we turn to Russell Moore of the Southern Baptist convention. I want to start with this question on this ruling. What can be done now for people who hold your view . Well, i think that people have to understand that people who hold my view based on deeply held religious convictions arent going to simply surrender those things. We cant. For us to change our views on marriage and sexuality would mean repudiating what we believe has been handed to us by jesus and his apostles. We didnt make up our views on marriage and sexuality and we cant unmake them. And so evangelical protestants and catholics and eastern orthodox and others are going to continue to hold their views on marriage and sexuality. We believe its in the common good. We understand that short term things are very stacked against us here. But we ought to have the sort of pleuralistic american environment where we can agree to disagree and where we can make our case without having our consciences paved over by those who would seek to to so. Dickerson so you can hold your view, but what about in a legal sense . I mean, what can anything be done . Well, i think were going to have to take a page from the Prolife Movement and see this as a longterm strategy. I dont think that an ininitaly elastic view of marriage is sustainable. And we have to be the people who keep the light lit to the old ways when it comes to marriage and family and thats going to be a generationlong skirmish. Its not going to be something thats going to be resolved in a president ial election or dickerson you say infinitely elastic. It seems to be increasingly elastic. We seem to be moving with various rates of rapidity toward tossing aside things but just a few years ago there seemed to be slippery slopes. Dickerson you mentioned the prolife the roe vs. Wade analogy youve used before, but in this case, it seems its a little bit different. That in roe vs. Wade, there was a kind of constant push against it. In this, a lot of reason that the culture has changed is because people know people in samesex relationships and the opposition to that has diaminished. But i dont think thats the case. If you look at what happened in roe vs. Wade you had at least my wing of christianity who werent concerned at all. We saw it as a Roman Catholic issue. You had a very lonely Roman Catholic witness against the abortion culture and as time went on, as people saw the implications of this, the more that they stood by what the scriptures teach on these things and about what their deepest convictions say. I think the same thing will be true here. Dickerson there will be a lot more people that you know who will have family members now as a result of this who will now be married through samesex marriages. What do you what would you council them . What would your guidance be to a person of faith about someone in their family or friend who goes on and gets married now . Well, we dont hate anybody. We dont have hostility toward anyone. We believe in loving all people and respecting all people, including our gay and lesbian neighbors. And so holding to our convictions doesnt mean that we dispense with human kindness. It means those two things go together. We have to be people of both truth and grace and conviction and kindness and i think thats what most christians are doing now and have been doing for quite some time. Dickerson last question, in terms of protections for people of faith is there a specific protection that you would like to see in the wake of this ruling . Well, its really going to depend on what the victors in this ruling attempt to assert. Are they going to take a french revolutionary approach to the sexual revolution or not . And i think we have to hold by our First Amendment protections for people of faith and for religious institutions, because were not going to be able to simply put our convictions in a blind trust. Dickerson thank you so much for being with us. Thank you john. Dickerson and in another major ruling this last week, the court upheld obamacare. Ways Means Committee chairman paul ryan has been a consistent critic of the Affordable Care act. He joins us from wisconsin. Mr. Ryan, is the president right . He says obamacare is now the law of the land and thats that. I dont agree with that, john. I think this law is going to collapse under its own weight. Im as motivated as ever before to repeal and replace this law and thats what were working on. What i really worry about john, with this ruling is the grave injustice it does to the rule of law. So much for calling balls and strikes. I think Justice Roberts is now counting foul balls as home runs. Look, i think that theyve done a great disservice to the country because theyre rewriting laws at the bench. We had three constructionists on the court when we should are have had five. Im shock the at this lulling but ruling but it does not deter us what we really want which is Affordable Care for everybody and let People Choose what they want to buy and thats not what this law does. But as practical matter, youre going to work against it. What can you do now . Well, as practical matter it means we need to win the 2016 election and with a republican president in 2017 replace this law with one that actually working, one that people actually like. Dickerson you know, i want to talk to you about what the replacement is going to be and review a line from peter sutterman whos writing in politico about the politics of healthcare. He writes republicans have already lost because when it comes to larger Healthcare Health policy goals the party effectively doesnt have any beyond the repeal of obamacare. This author is not a fan of obamacare. His argument is theres no real alternative and you couldnt as republicans agree on one. Well, i take issue with that narrative. Look, when we were debating obamacare senator tom coburn, richard burr and i had a very comprehensive alternative. There are a number of alternative obamacare bills out there right now in congress. So i just disagree with that notion. But to your point, i do believe that in 2016 we need to show the country what exactly we would replace this law with so that when we win the election in 2016, we have the ability do it in 2017. So yes thats what were going to go with now is go back to working on coming up with a comprehensive replacement bill, showing the country what that looks like, how we can fix this mess, and then implement the fix in 2017. Dickerson i know that 2016 candidates come to you and seek your counsel. Would you advise them then not just to say obamacare bad but to say here is a b c and d what i would replace it with . Would that be your advice . Id say both, yes. I dont like this law because i dont think anybody running for president on our side of the aisle does and say what they would replace it with. Thats a healthy ing thing. You already have people running for president who already put out replacement ideas and plans. We are working on spronding to king burwell should they stick with it as written since the ruling didnt go the right way i think were now going to work on a comprehensive replacement man plan and i think thats a healthy conversation were going to have to have in this country. Dickerson the president said he would like to work with you on fixing the law. Any chance thats going to happen . Look, i just dont think this law is fixable. Its borne on such a fundamentally flawed premise. It lets you buy only what it lets you guy. Its going buy. Its going to lead to monopoly of Insurance Companies governmentrun corporations effectively. It denies people choice. It gives the states no right to craft markets for themselves that work for them. I think its so fundamentally flawed. I think the law is going to collapse under its own weight. The denial of choice. The double digit increases in premiums we seem to see every year is something that i just dont think the countrys going to stand for. Dickerson well switch from a position of disagreement with the president to one where you agreed with him. It looks like trade is going to go forward. What was the key to getting that passed, something both you and the president wanted . Well, i think this is one of those glimmers of hope where we had some Common Ground on a bipartisan basis. And the reason this happened, the reason we had 191 republicans in the house voting for it with 28 democrats is because we want american leadership. We realize that trade is what you need to have to increase jobs and Economic Opportunity national security. But really john, i think it was a question of, if we do not do tpa, then we are on a bipartisan basis saying that the country i retreating from the world and were going to let other countries write the global rulebook on the Global Economy. And we dont want to do that. Now that we have tpa america can be at the front of the line writing the rules of the Global Economy which is in our interests. And i think thats what we got out of this. Dickerson all right congressman paul ryan, thanks for being with us. We turn now to Race Relations in the aftermath of the charleston shootings. Congressman Elijah Cummings spoke with us earlier. I want to talk to you about the federal flag in South Carolina. It looks like its just a matter of time before it comes down. What will that do in terms of improving Race Relations . I think its a major thing that has to happen, and it will happen. I agree. And i applaud the folks in South Carolina for doing that. I also applaud the governor of alabama for doing what hes doing in taking down the flag. But thats simply not enough. That is simply a symbol of bigotry, a symbol of racial hatred, symbol of inequality for me and for so many others. Now we must begin to address Racial Disparities and inequalities themselves, and i think thats the most important thing. Again, its good to take the flag down, but now we have to move beyond that. Dickerson i want to pick up on that. President obama, when he spoke at reverend pinkneys funeral said something. I want to play it and get your reaction to it. It would be a betrayal of everything reverend pinkney stood for, i believe, if we allowed ourselves to slip into a comfortable silence again. Right cheers and applause once the eulogies have been delivered, once the tv cameras move on, to go back to business as usual. Kerson i want to ask you about that idea of business as usual. Youre from baltimore. It was your district where just a few months ago there was rioting in the streets over the question of the murder of freddie gray. Whats the situation like in baltimore . Got a lot of attention for a short period, but have things flipped back to business as usual . Or whats being done there now . No, they have not slipped back as business as usual. I think the mayor has worked very hard to pull us together. And we have a program now called one baltimore. What we saw after the disturbances is a lot of people of good will came forward opened their eyes and said, you know what . We can do something about it. So we had philanthropic organizations, nonprofits, state government, president obama and his administration all coming together to try to begin to address things like joblessness and the criminal Justice System and trying to make sure that police were respecting the people who they have pledged to serve and protect. But also making sure the Community Respect the police. And so theres a lot happening in baltimore. We have a long way to go. But i dont think baltimore will ever be the same. Is it going to be easy . No, its not going to be easy. Dealing with problems that have been systemic for so long, its going to be very difficult. We have to, for example address education system. So many of our children feel that they are not getting the education they need to be functional in our society. So were looking at all of those things and giving it everything weve got. But i have a lot of hope for baltimore. Dickerson when you think about whats happened in baltimore and then you were there at the service on friday, you talk about hope. The president tried to talk about that too. What do you think what did you take from his remarks in terms of trying to address some of these longstanding problems about race in america both in baltimore but also in charleston. I think what the president was saying was that we need to pull the blinders from over our eyes and that we dont have the right to remain silent about what we see. In the past, we have put bandaids on the symptoms, said, okaying, we got a problem here, so well do something there and here. But the fact still remains that what the president was trying to say, i think was that weve got to look at things like healthcare. Think about South Carolina. Weve got 136,000 people who could be getting healthcare under medicaid under the Affordable Care act but theyre not because the governor and the left laich wont sign off. Tates that are doing the same things. I mean, those are the kinds of things that go to the quality of life of africanamericans and other people. We got to look at joblessness. We also have to look at the criminal Justice System. And i think whats what the president s saying. Lets begin to act. Its nice to talk, but at some point, the talk has to turn into deeds, to actually affect peoples lives from day to day. Dickerson all right congressman cummings, thanks so much for being with us. Thank you. Dickerson well be back in one minute. Then it would be easy to know everything about that one breed. But in fact, there are over three hundred breeds of dogs. Because no one can be an expert in every one. An app powered by ibm watson will help vets tap Specialized Knowledge in the cloud for every breed. And whatever else walks, flies or slithers through the door. Ibm watson is working to make medicine smarter every day. Dickerson the second had not turned over all her emails. The chairman of the investigation, gowdy is here. Mr. Chairman, i want to ask you whats the significance of this latest revelation . Well, the significance, john, is it undercuts the three main points the secretary made. She said the Public Record was complete. Youll remember in her press conference she said she turned over everything related to work to the department of state. Bewe no that that is false. She said the emails from sydney blumenthal were unis listsolicited. We know that was false. So so far she also said that she had a single device for veerch. We now know that she had more than a singlete vice. So every explanation shes offered so far is demonstrably false. On the question of completeness, the state Department Said well, she turnedno over 55,000 emails. This is just 15. So how big a deal is that . Well, we dont know in fairness to her because i dont have anything to compare it with because she had this unprecedented email arrangement with herself. Only she and her attorneys know whether or not she turned over everything. What we now know is just within the small area of libya and benghazi, not her entire secretary of state just libya and benghazi, we found 15 emails she did not produce to the department of state despite the fact she claimed she produced everything. So we know her seminal point dont mind my email arrangement you have everything that we have, we know that is patently false. What we dont know is whether or not that is also true or false with respect to other areas outside of libya and benghazi. Dickerson so is this going to change the way youre pursuing your investigation at all . Well, i was yeah, im a former prosecutor, so i was somewhat suspicious and skeptical beforehand. I think what it confirms is, number one the Public Record is not complete. Number two we very much need to talk to secretary clinton, but we cannot did that until the department of state produces to us the emails and other documents that will legitimately entitled to. And the other point that i would make because i hear it all the time from your previous guests and others is that seven or eight previous congressional committees looked into benghazi. Theres nothing here. Look somewhere else. Well, none of those other committees looked at a single one of her emails. And none of those other committees found out that she had her own server and her own private email. So our committee has done things that none of those seven other committees were able to do. Dickerson speaking of the conduct of your committee the Clinton Campaign heard you were coming so they decided to get busy with their own emails and senses one in which john podesta, the chairman of the Campaign Said you are and im quoting, clinging to an invented scandal and that the one question he says one question that prominently remains, what if anything does all this have to do with benghazi . Your response. Well, the murder of four of my fellow americans is not an invented scandal, and what it has to do with our investigation is this. We were asked by our colleagues in the house to look at all policies, all activities, all decisions that led up to the attacks in benghazi, the pendency of the attacks themselves the administr response in the aftermath and then the administrations compliance with a legitimate congressional oversight. So if you look at just the first troch, what led to the attacks. John what does our government now said led to the attacks . What is our governments official position on the motive behind these attacks . Antiwestern sentiment. So you dont look at antiwestern sentiment in a 24hour vacuum prior to the attacks. You have to look at what may have spurred or spawned that antiwestern sentiment. I have no interest in looking at northern africa. I have no interest in looking at bolivia or peru. But i am going to look at what the house asked me to look at, which is what led to the attacks and, importantly with respect to sydney blumenthal, this coordinated effort to mislead the American People in the aftermath of the attacks and the department of states total recalcitrants the allowing congress to investigate they havent given us emails for nine of the ten senior aids that she had. Its been over a year and we dont have a single scrap of paper from nine of the ten. So i am happy to conclude this investigation just as soon as john kerry decides that hes going to give us the documents were entitled to. Dickerson are you going to call anyone in from the state department . Pardon me . Are you going to call anybody in from the state department and talk to them about this . Well, weve called them in privately before because ive tried do this the right way. Not with theater. Not with thee atrics. Ive tried to do it without the drama, just the documents. But that has not proven to be successful. So i have met with secretary kerrys chief of staff privately. We talked on the phone last week. Our next interaction will be public. And, john, if i dont get satisfaction from that public interaction with his chief of staff, the next person to come explain to congress why he has been so recalcitrant in turning over documents will be the secretary himself. I get that he has other things going on. I get that hes got a big portfolio. But i want to get this investigation over with, and he is the only thing standing between me and a completed investigation. Dickerson and quickly what about Hillary Clinton . When is she going to testify . Just as soon as the department of state decides to give me the documents that i need to have a constructive conversation with her. Dickerson all right. Chairman gowdy we thank you so much for your time. Back in a moment. You probably know xerox as the company thats all about printing. But did you know we also support hospitals using Electronic Health records for more than 30 million patients . Or that our Software Helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure email every month . Or how about processing nearly 5 billion in electronic toll payments a year . In fact, todays xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. With xerox, youre ready refor al business. [alarms blaring] ohhhhh. Whoa whoa whoa whos responsible for this . . Ething goes wrong, you find a scapegoat. Rick. Its what you do. Ahhhhhhhh whatd you say . Uhoh kelly if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. Its what you do. Rick. Dont walk away from me. Ahhhhhhhh you probably know xerox as the company thats all about printing. But did you know we also support hospitals using Electronic Health records for more than 30 million patients . Or that our Software Helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure email every month . Or how about processing nearly 5 billion in electronic toll payments a year . In fact, todays xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. With xerox, youre ready refor al business. Dickerson we got a lot more ahead in this busy week of news. And that includes john kasich, the republican governor of ohio. He will be joining us as soon as we get back from our break. Stay with us. Listen up team i brought in some protein to help rearrange the fridge and get us energized im new ensure active high protein. 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Were back with john kasich, the republican governor of ohio. Governor, i want to start with the Affordable Care act. Youve worked with portions of it particularly the medicaid portion. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled, is this it . Is it over . Should republicans just accept it . No, i dont think so, john. I mean, the problem with obamacare is it drives up insurance costs. It messed with our insurance bands out here. It doesnt make any sense. And its a topdown, it doesnt control costs. So there are alternatives to obamacare. Were driving one here in ohio called quality healthcare where we incentivize both the early physicians with the Insurance Companies and the providers to practice quality medicine so that you dont have to have ten tests when you only need two. With incentives built in the system to keep us healthy and also control the cost of healthcare. In regard to medicaid, i think we ought to be blockgranting money back to the state so states can be empowered to treat the poor. And were going to ask for some waivers in that progral. But whats most important there is i brought ohio money back to treat the mentally ill the drug addicted, and to help the working poor. So theyre not in the Emergency Rooms and so our mentally ill and drug addicted are not in prison. Thats not only a question of arithmetic but its also a question of morality and so thats working pretty well. By the way we had have a balanced budget. Were going to have a structural balance. We have a 2 billion in our surplus, and weve cut taxes by 5 billion. The most in the country with strong credit. Weve been managing things appropriately. And weve grown jobs by 360,000 here in ohio. And theres a lot of lessons for people to learn. That nationally. Dickerson you mentioned the arithmetic. I want to go back to your point about the moral part. You talked when gao the a little pushback from conservatives about that medicaid money that you took you said when you go to meet st. Peter at the pearly gates your quote is, hes probably not going to ask you much about what you did about keeping government small but hes going to ask you about what you did for the poor. That didnt strike everyone in the conservative ranks as a kind thing to say. You know, i get it, john. First of all, you have to have Economic Growth because thats the most important thing for our country, for the world for that matter because it takes people out of poverty and gives them an opportunity to live their godgiven purpose. But i have to tell you, as a big fan of that handbook that the lords handed us, the old and new testament, theres a lot in there, john, about our need to take care of the widowed the poor the disadvantaged, and i feel very good about it, and at the end of the day all these people are giving a lift and an opportunity. Thats one thing in the country john, we talk about a lot of issues that divide us, but this are many things that we should that should unite us, and thats what America Needs we need to be united. There was divisions between rich and poor and black and white and we can fix these things if opportunity to rise. And thats kind of my philosophy. Dickerson you mentioned in another context, you said the Republican Party needs more empathy. Is that what youre talking about . Well, i think the whole country needs more empathy. I think its been a disappearing value, john. I mean, if youre developmentally disabled, we want you to be mainstreamed as much as possible. If youre mentally ill we want you to get your education so you can stand and lead a good life. The same is true with rehabbing prisoners. Weve been able to help people who are drug addicted to come out of prison and have only a 10 resid sliment rate. Thats what unifies the country john. And you know, where people are losing here is a little bit of an erosion of the spirit. Does the American Dream work . Do i have an opportunity to become Something Special . And i think that, if we in fact can convince people that everyones included, that everybody has an opportunity to rise, based on a growing economy, americas stronger and not divided. Dickerson i want to ask you about the ruling from the Supreme Court on samesex marriage. In various states, there have been laws passed to protect the religious freedom of people. Where are you going to do that in ohio . I think we need to take a deep breath. Look, i believe in traditional marriage, but the Supreme Court has ruled and its the law of the land, and well abide by it. And i think Everybody Needs to take a deep breath to see how this evolves. But i know this. I mean, religious institutions, religious entities, you know, like the catholic church, they need to be honored as well. And i think theres an ability to strike a balance. Look, as job as governor, you learn to strike a balance. Sometimes you get into an argument. You get in a fight. And thats okay. But overall what you want to do as a public official and as a leader is you want to kind of look for solutions where you can create more winwins. And lets see how this thing develops. Everybody take a deep breath at this point. Dickerson do you think that this ruling, though, some conservatives have said its a real threat to the culture in america. Do you see it that way . Look, ive said what i said about my view on it. But you think theres so many other things now that we have so focus on. Its going to be job growth, defeating poverty, healing the division between races coming up with an Immigration Solution thats going to be fair and is going to help people, rebuilding our national defense. Thats where the energy ought to be focused on the things that we know are vital to strengthen our country, john. Im trying to avoid your question but frankly my head is now moving in the direction of what we can do to solve problems here together. Dickerson youre trying to avoid the question which sounds like youre already a president ial candidate. When are you going to announce . Well, first of all, im not avoiding it. I do believe in traditional marriage, but the court has ruled. And its time to move on. About that. In terms of announcing, were getting awfully close to being able to make a decision, and look, i just want to do it if i think i have a path to win. People say i have low poll numbers. And i do. And ill tell you why because i came into this office to take care of our beloved ohio. I didnt travel outside the state. I didnt go out in politic. What i wanted to do was fix ohio. So we went from 8 billion in the hole to a 2 billion surplus to a balanced budget to the largest tax cuts in the country and growing 360,000 jobs with everyone having a chance. Now can i go out and tell my story. And hopefully, the polls will rise. Well see ill do my best. Thats all i can do, john. Governor, we appreciate your time. We look forward to talking to you when youre a candidate. And well be right back. Dickerson and to talk about all the weeks news, our panel,ing. Ing about, is a wall street journal columnist and a cbs news contributor. David ignatius is a columnnist for the washington post. April ryan is the bureau chief for National Urban radio. And we welcome the executive editor of National Review reihan salam. Ill start with you. Weve had the samesex decision. Is there anything the republicans can do about this . I think theyre already seeing a cleavage with two candidates, jeb bush and marco rubio. They do not support a constitutional amendment which overturn the decision. You have a number of other republicans doing the opposite. This is continuing to be an issue. Some have argued, hey now the Supreme Court has decided this is no longer going to be something dividing republicans and i dont think thats quite true. Dickerson should republicans be talking about this at length as they run for president . They will be talking about it because they will be asked about it so certainly in the next few weeks, that is true. I think theyre also going to have to address the question of there is a cleavage between those who say, all right this is settled or appears to be settled and those who say no, a constitutional amendment is possible. Look is it possible . We know where Public Opinion is and where it is going. It is not possible. So are republicans gonna go off chasing a rabbit theyll never be able to catch . More fruitfully, i think republicans can look at the real issue mentioned in all the dissents of scotus, the real issue of religious liberty whether or not it is going to be under siege and whether those who disagree with the courts ruling on samesex marriage are going to come under great pressure to get with the program. That will be important. Dickerson april, just thinking about the pace of change here, president obama when he came into office, was opposed to samesex marriage. Yeah. Dickerson then after this ruling and well show a picture of it, the white house bathed in rainbow colors. How about that . Dickerson talk about that. Talk about that evolution. Well, first of all when president obama came into the white house, there were only two states that allowed for samesex marriages. So and how many years later and now with the Supreme Court decision you have 50 states. But and im going to take you to friday. President obama was writing his eulogy friday morning when he received a call and the person who called him said there is a decision from the Supreme Court and he said, well, whats the number . And they said 54. And they played with him. He didnt know what side. And he said, well, who won . And he said, this has been a good week when he found out. So they embraced it. This is a president who said, you know, i believe that i have to be a president for all america. Hes the one who really couple years ago, about two years ago really started the ball rolling even more. So this white house is embracing that, particularly the first africanamerican president. You know, we were a nation at one time who did not allow for couples of different races to be married. So we are moving and this white house is embracing it. Dickerson and the executive branch there teasing the president on the telephone. laughter david, i want to talk about the judicial branch. The dissents in the samesex marriage case, Justice Scalia said that i would hide my head in a bag if he had written the opinion supporting this. Real cleavage in the Supreme Court. There are sharp divisions. They were clearer on both the equality of marriage issue and on the Affordable Care act in that dissent Justice Scalia called the majority opinion pure applesauce and used a phrase jigery pokery. Were still not sure laughter . Dickerson right. I think its a childrens game. At the same time this is obviously a divided court it has a chief justice in john roberts who we are seeing, we saw clearly this week, is trying to steer a middle course. He was referred to by my colleague in a column this morning as our national umpire. Its clear that he does see a role in leading the court finding a center line, being true to his principles, but still thinking about the court as an institution that shapes the country and clearly on these two decisions you could feel america turn a little bit on its axis. It will be a different country for these decisions. And chief justice obviously wants to make sure that that doesnt do damage to the way the country works. Dickerson conservatives think roberts has abandoned them. He was supposed to be one of them. Well, if you read his dissent in the samesex marriage case, boy, was that a conservative dissent. I have never seen dissents in my lifetime as sharp and in a way as accusatory and full of warnings as both dissents were. These were justices of the Supreme Court saying to other justices you are essentially usurping democracy. Youre acting as lesm laters, not as judges. And youre a bunch of elitist on the edges of america. You all went to yale and harvard. You know nothing about america. There isnt a single evangelical on this court. Whoa. That is sharp stuff. The first is in the healthcare decision its worth noting that, though conservatives were very exercisedexercised and disappointed in decision he also introduced an interesting possibility. He did not say we are deferring to the executive branch on what the Affordable Care act means. Rather, he said, we look to the purpose of the law. We look to the intentions behind the law and this is what the law means. That introduces a fascinating possibility that conservatives will be able to challenge a wide range of regulatory decisions by executive Branch Agencies where theres a tension between what an Administrative Agency has said and the intention of the law. That is going to be a very powerful weapon potentially for people who want to restrain government in the future. On samesex marriage, were going to see litigation for many, many years particularly when it comes to the religious community and the religious right. You does ill have that issue. If i believe in my faith that says theres adam and eve not adam and steve and if i am a cake baker and i dont want to bake a cake for your wedding carolina, if im a if i had any part in the ceremony that you want to pay me to do something for, that is going to go into a litigation. And the problem is is that we as a nation, we have moved forward i remember during the bush years the second the second time the president bush tried to run for office, and u wst reasons why he received a large number of the black vote then, 11 versus 9 the first time, he said he basically put jesus and god on the ballot, you know, samesex marriage. So weve come a long way as a nation. Were more majority believing there should be samesex marriage but you sill have that minority in the church that were not going to do this. Dickerson i want to switch to the Affordable Care act quickly. I talked to paul ryan and said, you know one of the things people said is there really wasnt a republican alternative. What do you think about that . A republican alternative to obamacare. Did they have one ready to go if the Supreme Court had gone the other way . This is a real struggle because this is a case that republican lawmakers saw coming down the pike a long way off. Paul line ryan was trying to build a coalition as he did on medicare reform earlier. Hes managed to wrangle republicans together on many different issues but a this is one hes been working for years since 2009 he has had his own vation for an alternative to obamacare yet he has failed to build that consensus because you still have some people believe look, you can only beat obamacare, you can only replace it if you have another plan for access to coverage and there are others who are saying, nosh, we can go back to the status quo and, even if it means that many people are going to lose their coverage. Thats okay. We need to stand up for principle. And i think that ryan is in a very tough position, and he needs more allies if hes going to advance that vision. But he failed to do that this time around. And it was very consequential. Dickerson i want to switch now to you peggy on the question of president ial temperament. So the president had a lot of the things happen this week. He was in the rose garden twice. He gave a powerful eulogy at the end of the week. But he was also on a podcast which is new for president s. And he said the lodge. laughter . Dickerson he said in the potcast, i know what im doing and im fearless. Ive screwed up. Ive been in the barrel tumbling down Niagara Falls and ive emerged and ive lived and thats such a liberating feeling. You know what . I think what he said is true of him. I think he hes 6 1 2 years into a rock em sock em presidency. I think he just had one of the great weeks that a modern president could have. Part of it luck, part of it chance, part of it fortune, but what the heck . What it is is what it is. You can tell some part of him has made a turn, and he is coming out of some dolldrums. I saw it at the church when he spoke. That was not a defeated person. That was a guy who was thinking, i am in good shape and i am happy. And it was about as comfortable as ive seen him and as moving as i have seen as moving an event as ive seen a president involved in. Dickerson as move as moving and as real. We live in an age of scripted politics. You cannot script a president singing Amazing Grace acpellow in the way that he did. I dont think anyone who watched it will ever forget it. He felt it. He was really in the moment there. He is from the black church. He is we were joking on twitter and many people were saying the congregation, reverend president instead of mr. President. But president in chief. I mean he wrote this from the depths of his soul. He wrote the majority of his speech. And he may have had a couple of pieces added in from help from some people that he knew, but he really felt this moment because its a time that we are a nation thats present for change. Again, this week, we saw the n word. We saw him bring out the n word in that garage podcast because he wanted the nation to see, after what happened in charleston, we are still a nation thats hypersensitive on the issue of race, from any spectrum that you were on on the spectrum in. And then also, the issue of the confederate flag. I talked to the hid of the Republican National committee. He said we are more diunited than we are divided. And he spoke to it and sang to it. Amazing grace. Dickerson and you think a lot about how conservatives can meet the modern moment. Is there a way in which the conservative voice has a way to play in this conversation, to answer what the president s talking about . Well, i think that there are ways for conservatives to connect with minority voters and with this larger change that april is referring to. But i want to caution everyone in this one small way. There is what you might call a northsouth discourse of Race Relations in our country that is very blackwhite. And thats something that we are wrestling with right now. But i remind everyone at home, in 2016, about 18 of the population will be latino. Only in 2028 will 18 of the electorate be latino. And my question is, a lot of that latino population in this country is still very young. Theyre not voting yet. But we do not know what those pollpolitics will look like when we go from this northsouth discussion to an eastwest discussion. Because in the west weve been a multiracial country in a long time and thats becoming more of a reality in more places, and i think that to imagine that, well latinos and plaques will have exactly the same kind of demands where i all that minorities after all or that we do not know what this is going to look like. And i think actually that is the subtext of the immigration debate. We talk about this purely through immigration but in fact this latino population, this rising generation has a lot of distinctive challenges that it faces, and i think that it will have a lot of distinctive demands that it will make, and that is really the thing that conservatives ought to look to. Great, great points, i believe. But at the same time im going to back to bill clinton. I covered him 18 years ago. When he Start Talking about the issue of race in america bringing the nation together, tea you canned about it he talked about it as a heart issue. You think about it, and you come from the heart and then you legislate. But when he was dealing with the issue of race, he started with the young people because young people were different. They didnt have that the the remembrance and the history of a segregated south. They didnt remember that. So i understand the east vs. The west and the south vs. The north but i think as a nation, we have minorities, africanamericans and hispanics who are two total he will different groups but our young people are coming together more than our older people. And i go back to what president obama said friday, jamal vs. Jimmy, whos going to get the job . And i think the young he people are into both jimmy and jamal. Dickerson final question david, to you. There have been a lot of talk about threats in advance of july 4th. What can you tell us . After fridays attacks that killed more than 60 people on three continents abroad, u. S. Officials are worried. There are fbi investigations in more than 50 states. There is concern that the motivation of is happening. As of friday, i was told there are no specific threats dickerson okay. Thank you, david. Well be right back in a ement mo. Building aircraft, the likes of which the world has never seen. This is what we do. Thats the value of performance. Northrop grumman. Why are we watching this again . I pay for all these channels, so i make myself watch them all. Joey, ill watch anything except this. Except this. Go back, go back, go back, go back, go back, go back. Fios custom tv lets you pay for the types of channels you want, not the ones you dont. 100 fiber optics is here. Get out of the past. Get fios. Now for 79. 99 a month. Go online or call. Call the Verizon Center for customers with disabilities at 800. 974. 6006 tty v dickerson when president obama traveled to charleston friday, it was the 19th 19th funeral or Memorial Service hes attended as president. But there was Something Different about this one. His eulogy for the reverend clementa pinkney, it was a sermon about the power of grace. According to the christian tradition grace is not earned. Grace is not merited. Its not something we deserve. Rather grace is the free and benevolent favor of god. Dickerson he used preachers cade owns to talk about gods love, but he was making a lawyers argument. As a nation out of this terrible tragedy god has visited grace upon us. For he has allowed us to see what weve been blind. Dickerson grace was not just a comfort to the families and community, it was a spur to political action. By taking down that flag, we express gods grace. cheers and applause dickerson and it could be more than that, the president argued, giving purpose to a nation. Hes once more given us grace. But it is up to us now to make the most of it to receive it with gratitude and to prove ourselves worthy of this gift. Dickerson by taking up the worthy fights against racism, gun violence, poverty a nation could keep faith with the grace displayed in charleston and be compelled under that grace to join together. Amazing laughter . applause . Grace dickerson the way they are when a single voice starts to sing the line of a familiar hymn. The sound that faith of a wretch like me why are we watching this again . I pay for all these channels, so i make myself watch them all. Joey, ill watch anything except this. Except this. Go back, go back, go back, go back, go back, go back. Fios custom tv lets you pay for the types of channels you want, not the ones you dont. 100 fiber optics is here. Get out of the past. Get fios. Now for 79. 99 a month. Go online or call. Call the Verizon Center for customers with disabilities at 800. 974. 6006 tty v dickerson until next week for face the nation, im john dickerson. Hi, everyone. Im courtney thornesmith. Dont change the channel because in the next few minutes, youre gonna learn about a breakthrough product that could help take years off your appearance. But heres the thing you dont put it on your face. Want to learn more . Stay with us. Announcer next, a paid presentation from perricone md for cold plasma subd, the firstofitskind treatment for the area of your body that can actually age you most your neck, hosted by Network Television star courtney thornesmith and featuring some of the most dramatic beforeandafter photos youve ever seen. Brought to you by guthy renker. When you look at yourself in the mirror, does your neck look older than your face . 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