States. Has the u. S. Ceded the upper hand . Joining me are mark leibovich, amy holmes of the blaze, ruth marcus of the Washington Post and rich lowry of the National Review. Welcome to sunday, its meet the press. Good sunday morning. This week roseburg, oregon, joined the roll call of american towns that have suffered a mass shooting. Nine victims from 18 to 67 gunned down on a Community College campus. Jason johnson. Serena daun moore, lucero alcaraz, rebecca carnes, quinn cooper, trevin taylor, Lawrence Levine and kim dietz. Familiar questions about how this could have happened and what it means for the battle over the issue of guns in america. Well get to all of the politics in just a moment but for the latest i want to go to nbcs Miguel Almaguer who is in roseburg. Migu miguel, i want you to address we heard from the shooters father who decided to weigh in on the gun debate. Tell me more about it. Absolutely. Chuck. The gunmans father, 26yearold chris harper mercer, unloaded several rounds inside the campus behind me. Police say he was heavily armed. We now know he told students inside that classroom to get together, to lie in the center of the classroom and then began shooting them. He told one lucky survivor, he said apparently according to his victims that they would pass on a manifesto to police that would lead them to more information about the shooting. As you mentioned, the victims father is also speaking out for the first time about gun violence and his son. Heres what he said. How on earth could he compile 13 guns . How can that happen . They talk about gun laws, they talk about gun control. Every time Something Like this happens they talk about it and nothing is done. Im not trying to say that thats to blame for what happened but if chris had not been able to get ahold of 13 guns, it wouldnt have happened. Chuck, this is sparking a National Debate but interestingly enough, shortly after that interview with cnn we spoke to a victim survivor here at the hospital and she said she believes more people should be carrying guns inside campuses like this one. So its an interesting debate even after all of the bloodshed and massacre here. Its igniting the country. Miguel almaguer, this is a debate whether is it about gun control or gunfree zones . Well get to that. Let me go to data. According to mass shooter tracker data which defines a mass shooting as an incident where four or more people are shot there have been 294 Mass Shootings alone, nearly a thousand since the database was created in the wake of the sandy hook shooting. Thats more than one a day. The u. S. Has a gun homicide rate nearly four times higher than switzerland, six times canada, 16 times germany, 21 times australia and 49 times the rate in france. But the high profile shootings havent shifted views on gun control. Though 87 of americans favor expanded background checks, last year for the first time in more than two decades its a higher percentage of americans, 52 , who said it was more important to protect the right of americans to own guns than to control gun ownership. We saw the divide play out this week beginning with a visibly frustrated president who admitted he was politicizing the issue. Somehow this has become routine. Whats also routine is that somebody somewhere will comment and say obama politicized this issue. Well, something something we should politicize. On the campaign trail, republican candidates responded and sounded strikingly similar. I always find it interesting that the reflexive reaction on the left is to say we need more gun laws. Criminals dont follow gun laws, only law abiding people follow gun laws. Gun control only works for normal law abiding citizens. It doesnt work for crazies. You take guns away from people who are law abiding, the people who cause these horrible things will still have them. Before we start calling for more laws i think we ought to consider why we dont enforce the laws we have. Its very sad to see but i resist the notion and i did i had this challenge as governor because we had look, stuff happens. Theres always a crisis. And the impulse is always to do something and its not necessarily the right thing to do. And on friday i sat down with the republican frontrunner donald trump and asked him to react to the president s statement on the shooting. Well, you know, i watched his statement and i understand exactly what hes saying but you know, no matter what you do, guns, no guns, it doesnt matter, you have people that are mentally ill and theyre going to come through the cracks and theyre going to do things people wont even believe are possible and whether its the School Shootings which are really very prevalent in this country, they seem to be more prevalent in this country. Whats your explanation . Theyre just sick people. They are mentally imbalanced and they probably see it happening here more so. Do you think we have more mentally ill people than other countries . I think we have of copycats, they watch it and see it here and the world can be a sick place in so many different ways but we have mentally very unstable people and that will lead. Its not politically correct to say, you can have the best security, you can have the best everything but people are able to get in and do this you know, just terrible damage. This is a startling statistics. 153,000 people have died from gunshots since 9 11. And counting 9 11, up to just over 3,000 people have died from terrorist attacks. The president s point is we have devoted all these energies to prevent terrorism. Should there be a sense of urgency on this . So the way i look at it, you take chicago, you take baltimore, you take various other places where you have tremendous gun violence and death, right . The strictest laws in the United States, in the world, for guns happens to be chicago where they have a lot of problems. Baltimore, a lot of the places where you have the biggest problem is where they have the strongest laws. But local laws without a National Floor are pointless. But the problem you have is the strongest, the most stringent laws are in almost every case the worst places. It doesnt seem to work. Its a tough situation, chuck. Its a tough situation and when i know it comes to the schools its Mental Health. Its a mental problem. You dont believe this is a we have too many guns . Do you think theres too many guns in america . Y could make the case that the school that we just went through and i see was a gunfree zone and you were not allowed to have guns at fall that particular area and you can make the case that it would have been a lot better had people had guns because they had something to fire back. You say you can make the case. Do you make the case . Well, i would say it couldnt be much worse. I think the police did a great job, they got there quickly and they were able to kill him but you can i can make the case that if there were guns in that room other than his fewer people would have died. Fewer people would have been so horribly injured. Well get to the rest of my interview with donald trump on his tax plan, how he plans to pay for it, the middle east, wait until you hear his position there, and what make him decide to get out of the race someday. Thats coming up in a few minutes. But first lets bring back the panel. Mark leibovich of the New York Times magazine, amy holmes, news anchor for the blaze, thats the glenn beck tevision network, ruth marcus columnist in for the Washington Post and rich lowry, editor of the National Review let me show up that statistic of the number of people that have died from terrorist attacks and the number of people that have died from l proposals for solutions, should we have a sense of urgency with the equivalency of the way we tackle terrorism . Well, its the core responsibility of the government to protect us from foreign enemies. The reason the gun debate is going nowhere and is so sterile is anything you do at the margins is not going to stop these kind of Mass Shootings and anything could do that would be much more sweeping is going to run afoul of a fundamental constitutional right to bear arms. Its interesting, ruth, i went ahead and did we looked up, the requirements for getting a car, sentially, registering a car and the requirements for getting a permit for a gun, all 50 states you have to get a license or permit to drive a car, 13 states for a gun. All 50 states require various forms of testing to drive a car. Six states require it to get a gun permit. And with a car you register regularly, sometimes on a yearly basis, sometimes biyearly, only six states require that. Is that unfair . As rich pointed out in the constitution, theres no right to drive a car in the constitution. Yes. And rich really correctly points out the cruel paradox here which is that the measures that would be most effective are also the most politically unimaginable and unconstitutional. But rich you mistake the total role of government. Its not simply to protect us from foreign enemies. Its to make sure we have a safe and livable environment and to quote jeb bush, too much stuff is happening on guns. So we need within the constraints of Public Opinion and the constraints of the constitution to figure out solutions to keep us safe. I have two daughters on college campuses. I watch these things and i am terrified and i think whatever your political view point is you should be terrified and simply to say that theres crazy people and stuff happens is abdicating governments responsibility. Amy, what is the sense of urgency that we should have . I think we should have a sense of urgency about what do we do with these angry misfit malcontents who we also know are inspired by watching the news about Mass Shootings. Mass shootings tend to happen in clusters, they often telegraph, advertise their intention to commit this violence. So when i look at the debate being routine or sterile or stale as youre putting it, rich, it shifts immediately to gun control and not other issues surrounding mass shooters and what can we do to try to prevent these mainly young men from committing these violent acts . Well, should there be more hurd hurdles . Yes the Mental Health issue but its more than Mental Health. Its the fame theyre seeking, the notoriety theyre seeking, the way media plays into that, by turning them into celebrities. Most of them say its fascinating and disturbing that they want to be famous. Theres no doubt theres a media role. I dont want to mention the guys name anymore. Hes been mentioned once, im not going to voice his name. But as the president points out, were not the only country with crazy people. Thats true. Look, the president had this entire debate with himself. You saw it. He anticipated all of the tropes unfolding over a several day period all of which has happened. He anticipated what the republican president ial candidates would say, what congress would say. The issue is politicized. I dont even when he said they should politicize the issue, it is politicized, its politicized because the nra pretty much owns more than half of congress. That is why this issue is basically immutable. You mentioned the constitution, Public Opinion. The other piece is the political impossibility of anyone i have a challenge. Can you name me the last candidate who lost because they werent for gun control . Thats a lot of silence here. I mean, thats if you want to know when the politics would change, right, rich lowry . I can list you dozens of candidates whove lost because of their position because they were too pro gun control. The. The nra represents real people which is why its so powerful and what i really objected to in the president s statement, i dont mind politicizing an issue where we have a debate about public policy, thats what politics is, but its the sense he gave that theres some magic button that we can be pushed and we all know what it is and that we dont have the political will to push it. You look at the specific things the left tends to talk about that are more marginal, universal background checks. Well, a lot of these guys passed the background checks we already have because they dont have prior records. The assault weapons ban lapse should we have a higher level of background checks . If someone hasnt committed a crime or been add jujudicated wa mental disorder, in the second amendment, you wont prevent people from buying a gun. There is no perfect solution but there are marginal improvements. Limit the size of magazines, that would have stopped shared loughner from killing as many people before he stopped to reload. Make the background checks so its not automatic that you get it if its not completed in three days, that might have stopped dylann roof from having his guns. We have to do something. Just because no solution is perfect doesnt mean theres nothing we should do. These arent impulse killers. Theyre people who are sitting and stewing and i think amys point is an important one. Columbine created a cultural norm where if youre disturbed and disaffected you go out in a blaze of infamy. We need to disempower that norm. And give families tools that if they have one of these young men under their roofs that they are able to address it. Im going to pause this debate because well never end it. Its one of those where everybody should admit they would be willing to put everything on the table. Well be back with the rest of my [ male announcer ] we know theyre out there. 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Welcome back and now to the rest of my interview with donald trump beginning with the tax plan he released that analysts say would blow an enormous hole in the deficit anywhere from 10 trillion to 12 trillion. Everybodys taxes are going down and some people wont pay tax and the reason they wont pay and i love the idea of having a little sort of fat in the game, if we can, but the fact is these are people that are doing very poorly. I mean, theyre making not a lot of money and were saving a tremendous amount of administrative costs and other things by not making them pay. Under my plan, i think its a very dynamic plan, were going to grow the economy. Hey, if china does it 7 having a terrible year, were saying we cant do it 3 and 4 . We just had 4 last quarter. Well, we also had zero percent the rst quarter. I understand, but we had 4 the last quarter. A little less than 4 . 3. 9 . It was what . 3. 9 last quarter. But if you look at the overall average, were doing less than 2 for the year. So we can do really terrifically. China, if they do 7 right, but in an emerging economy, its going to go 6 , 7 . If we do 6 our sweet spot is 3 to 5 . If we do 6 or 7 under my plan weve never had a year of 6 or 7 . But we can do that. How . Well, first of all, a couple things, number one, corporate inversion is a big deal and thats getting worse and worse. Companies will be leaving here. In the old days theyd leave new york and go to florida, leave new jersey and go to texas. Theyre leaving the United States now and going out to different whether its ireland and lots of other places in europe and asia and theyre leaving and there are Many Companies right now, chuck, that are talking about very seriously leaving this country and youre talking about thousands of jobs and a couple of these are big, powerful companies with lots of jobs. What youre saying is you make it up with growth . No, not all up with growth. We also start cutting because the waste in this country is unbelievable. Youre going to get rid of entire departments . I would get rid of some. As an example, department of education. Youd get rid of it . Not entirely. But id get rid of a lot of it. Look at jeb bush, hes a big common core person. Im not. I want local education. We could say a fortune with environmental protection. Financially not a big department, though, you wont get rid of a lot. Its a lot of money. Well what is another agency. Mechb the military. Im going to build the military, it will be much stronger. It will be so strong, nobody will mess but w us but we can do it for less. They sent a washer from South Carolina to texas, it cost 997,000. It was fraud. It was fraud. So you believe we can spend less money on defense than we do today . I think we can defense much stronger, spend somewhat less money and increase so cut the Defense Budget and make the military stronger . Chuck, when they send an 18cent washer from South Carolina to texas and it costs almost a Million Dollars to bring it there because of the fraud and abuse and everything else, it was a fraud but there have been many cases like that, we can save so much. When a hammer you buy at home depot for 8 costs 900 do you know how many politicians have said this over the years . I know, but im not a politician. If i get waste, fraud and abuse im not a politician. Im a business gye. Of course for the last three months im a politician. It never happens. Watch it happen with me. Lets move to syria. Okay. You came across to me as if you welcomed putins involvement in syria. You said it was sort of like you saw very little down side. Why . Ill tell you why. I am somebody that and you know ive been saying this a long time. I want our military to be beyond no contest because militaries have to be technologically so we probably have a big advantage. We are going to get bogged dow