Finally, ten years after katrina, are we learning that some parts of new orleans needed to be destroyed in order to be saved . Joining me for insight and analysis this sunday are matt bai of yahoo news, msnbc Michelle Harris perry, steven schmidt. Announcer this is meet the press with chuck todd. Good sunday morning. Have i a couple of shock poll results out of iowa from the Des Moines Register and bloomberg. On the democratic side Bernie Sanders has pulled within seven points of Hillary Clinton. Throw in joe biden, he sits at 14 . Back in may, the same poll had clinton leading sanders by 41 points. On the republican side, another shock. Donald trump leads at 23 . Almost out of nowhere, here comes ben carson with 18 . Ready for this . Nobody else is in double digits. Scott walker, ted crews, jeb bush, marco rubio, carly fiorina. Anybody else i havent named, less than 5 . If you add up the first and second choices on the republican side, ben carson and donald trump are actually tied. Ben carson, the highest favorable rating among republicans. Of course, it is donald trump that is dictating things. Him being on top is not the surprise this morning. Hes been dominating all the polls in every state, the media. It turns out hes getting into the heads of his opponents as well. We put together some examples of just how just in the past few weeks when trump talks the other republicans feel forced to respond. Make America Great again. Make America Great again. Its not too late for america. With your help, we can make o s country great again. The issue is not that america isnt great. The issue is that america can be even greater. Well call it the great wall of trump. Build the wall, have the technology, the personnel. Its not feasible to build a wall as the sole solution. Ill use the word anchor baby. Do you regret using anchor babies . No, i dont. Y dont regret it. Theyre human beings. Theyre not just statistics. Rand paul, you have to understand, is a disaster in the polls. Hes a disaster on military and defense. Hes getting decimated by everybody. I think people are going to have to decide whether they want someone who can say, shes fat, yeah im so good looking. Shes stupid and im rich or im smart because im rich. Has anyone ever heard of lindsey graham. If he becomes the nominee, well get killed. Come to South Carolina and ill beat his brains out. Jeb is nice person. Hes very low energy. Im not used to that kind of a person. We need leadership is washington, d. C. Highenergy leadership. There you have it. It seems as if they all want to respond and feel like they have to respond to trump. Matt bai, for yahoo news, Melissa Harrisperry and steve schmidt, former senior add adviser to john mccain. Steve, your party, im going to start with you. I think the most important poll number in this Des Moines Register poll is not carson, sanders, clinton, its this number. Satisfaction with the republicans in congress. Among republican caucusgoers in iowa, 75 say theyre not satisfied. Should we be surprised carson and trump on top . Its the complete and utter con temp of Republican Voters toward the establishment of the Republican Party in the Political Leadership of the country. Increasingly what you see also is now a severability between conservativism, which is defined as huge selections of the republican electorate as rhetoric emotion. The more incendiary the rhetoric, the more conservative you are. The test of true conservativism is fidelity to the person that has the most incendiary rhetoric. So, at a time of great cultural transition, change in the country, economic dislocation with globalization, with a blue color, noncollege educated, working class base that hasnt seen real wage growth in 30 years, heres the backlash. Heres the trump candidacy. And every day this message of america nationalism, we were once great. We no longer are, but we can be again is gaining strength. Melissa, im watching you nodding and nodding and nodding. Dont think you disagree with a point. I absolutely agree. Its the culmination of this question that i think many of us have been asking as we watched the Republican Party over recent years. On the one hand having these important successes in state and local races, particularly in the midterm elections and then asking whether or not the Republican Party is where the Democratic Party was when it finally had to split. When the Democratic Party that had been this coalition of southern democrats who were really there because they hated the emancipation proclamation in this you be easy alliance with northern liberals is split and southern democrats became republicans. Thats part of the question here. Do we finally see a culmination of a tea party saying, you know what, were actually not conservatives in the way the Republican Party has long defined conservativism. We are actually thinking about a different kind of nativism, nationalism, strong rhetoric and more than anything, that government is itself the problem. Right. Now, obviously this is having an affect on candidates itself. Matt, you wrote about jeb bush this week. I want to put up the Des Moines Register poll. Favorability rating in iowa. 61 . Donald trump has better numbers among republicans in iowa. He just reeked establishment to these people, i think. Because hes an establishment candidate. I said many times, its not so much trump is actually winning this race. Everybody else is losing. Hes actually have about a quarter of republican vote. I agree its real and signifies real. Hes where herman cain was four years ago. Its a natural constituency. Whats going on, unlike four years ago where mitt romney was a couple points behind, have you this vast field of candidates, divided. The rest of the electorate cant find a candidate they feel at this early stage they could rally around. They thought it was jeb bush. Its not. Hes falling. Who emerges to fill that void . Thats the most significant question of the primary process. The other part of this poll, we all just talked trump, trump, trump, the news is really ben carson. Hes sitting at 18 . More importantly here, highest favorable rating. Its eclipsing everybody. Right now he leads among christian conservatives, if i were looking at this poll in january, i would tell you, carson would win the caucuses. If this were january, this would mean carson would win the caucuses. But this is not january. This is august. We have been really focused on, this but i dont think the rest of the country has to the point that we i think iowans are. Iowans. But youre still looking although both both in the case of trump and with ben carson, i think youre looking at candidates with a ceiling. Particularly in the case of trump, i dont know how much higher that ceiling is going to be. The one candidate we didnt mention is my next guest here. Were going to turn to scott walker of wisconsin. He was supposed to be the conservative alternative favorite in this race. The conservative from a republican from a blue state, got things done. Like Many Republican candidates, walker has been swept away by the trump storm. I sat down with the governor yesterday for a meet the can days interview. Your good friend, Milwaukee County sheriff said, your campaigns stuck in neutral and you need to find a spark to counter the, quote, donald trump juggernaut. What do you say to him and do you agree with him . Its hard work. I was in iowa, South Carolina, new hampshire, doing town hall meetings, doing the sorts of things that remember, eight years ago about in time, there was i think a poll out in october of 2007, last time we had an open seat for president , and Hillary Clinton was way ahead of a guy by the name of barack obama and Rudy Giuliani were ahead of mitt romney and john mccain. The biggest spark for us is getting the message out that now is not the time to put in place someone who hasnt been tested. Now poll in your home state. Youre a 30 job Approval Rating and barack obama has 48 . Back then we were pushing big, bold reforms, like the big, bold reforms we pushed in the latest budget. Year later i won the recall because the reforms worked. For all the hype and hysteria of the 100,000 protesters, our schools are better. A. C. T. Scores are second best in the country, Graduation Rates are up, third grade reading scores are up. Same thing holds true for students who are my son at the university of wisconsin, reforms work there as well, property taxes continue to go down. When people see the benefits of our reforms, just like they did four years ago, i think our numbers will go up again. Let me go to a facebook question here. This is probably the topic brought up by more posters than anybody, which was the Milwaukee Bucks deal. How can you from sam barren. How can you talk about a fiscally responsible conservative then approve a deal for billionaires, so billionaires can get a shiny new are arena. Not one new penny of taxpayers dollars talk about being a fiscally responsible person. I am. Thats whydy this. 6. 5 million every year. Right now 6. 5 million per year comes into the state of wisconsin in income taxes. Not all these other things people talk about, in income taxes from nba players that play in the state of wisconsin. I would lose that money if we did nothing. The birth right citizenship issue. I can get a final there was some confusion last week on the issue its clear. Youre for getting rid of it, you werent, where are you . What i point out repeatedly since the beginning of this year. People have heard me, people have heard me say this a thousand times. Secure the border, enforce the laws, no amnesty, go forward in a way that provides for a Legal Immigration system, that puts a priority in american working families and their wages in a way that will improve the american economy. Whether its talking about the 14th amendment or anything else, until we secure the borders and enforce the law, we shouldnt talk about any other issue. Politicians should distract from the fact that for years in this town, in washington, d. C. , politicians have made promises about securing the border sxen forcing the laws they havent been able to fulfill. Im not talking about changing. Im not talking you want to keep in place. Birth right citizenship stays. Im not talking change the constitution. Youre going to try to tear up this agreement with iran on day one. Why not give it a chance . See if it works . I have no problem doing a deal if its on our terms. This is a horrible deal. Its a horrible deal. Its not just republicans. Chuck schumer isnt exactly mr. Conservative out there. He knows this is a bad deal. Other democrats know this is a bad deal. The American People know this is a bad deal. If you know its a bad deal and you know it today, why do you need a week or a month to put a cabinet in or panel in there. You need to tear it up and say, you want to do a deal with us . Heres the deal. You need to completely go out and get rid of your nuclear facility. Secondly, you need full disclosure. None of these side deals we heard about where somehow the iranians are part of their own inspection. Full disclosure, timely disclosure. On top of, that you need to start dealing with the destructive behaviors that iran is directly involved in when it comes to statesponsored terrorism. On day one f you reneglecte the deal, they can say iranians reneged, we will renege. Were sending a clear message that in the future well pull back f you want to do business, you have to decide, do it with iran or america. Were going to pull back and terminate this deal on day one. We tried toppling leaders in iraq and libya. We created drone strikes. Weve pulled back. Weve gone in. Nothing seems to stop this issue of islamic terrorism. What is it what are you going to do differently that is somehow going to solve this problem . Different from this president and the policy that Hillary Clinton was involved with is lifting the political restrictions and the ill give you a good example. We have people in iraq right now in the military, over 3,000 troops. Its not a question of sending more in. Its about empowering them to unleash the power of the United States military. We have people right there as air controllers who can literally draw in air strikes with absolute precision. They cant do that. Thats particularly difficult because i talked to a general earlier this year who said, air strikes can be effective, but right now, theyre like a drizzle. He said, we need to have a thunderstorm there. The comment you made at the end of the 2014 on samesex marriage, you said for us, wisconsin, the debate is over. Now you said thats not right. For us you said its over. A judge turned over it was over in terms of our legal option. We had no other option than waiting for what the Supreme Court would do. There was no other option for the state of wisconsin. The most immediate thing the next president , ill be involved in, is protecting peoples religious liberties. Its inherent in the constitution, part of the bill of rights, was to be free of religious persecution. Does that mean a business could fire somebody thats gay . Just because theyre gay . That means well, have you to have bounds up. That means we have to uphold the constitution which says you have the freedom of religion. Not freedom from religion. The freedom of religion. Our justice department, our irs and others out there will uphold that. All right. Caucuses are february 1st. First sunday in february. The super bowl. Who has a better shot, you in iowa or ann rodgers in the nfl . Im hoping i can do both. After i was first elected november 2nd of 2010, the packers went on to win the super bowl on my wedding anniversary youre saying youre good luck . I like the good luck. If i win, packers win the super bowl. I like it both ways. A lot more of my interview with governor walker, including his reaction to the idea of that minnesota and their liberal policies have been more successful than wisconsin and their conservative policies. All of it on our website. Meetthepressnbc. Com. When we come back, Hillary Clintons email troubles are growing. Joe biden made a surprise appearance on the campaign trail yesterday. Sort of. It was in delaware. Well show you [ male announcer ] we know theyre out there. You cant always see them. But its our job to find them. The answers. The solutions. The innovations. All waiting to help us build Something Better. Something more amazing. A safer, cleaner, brighter future. At boeing, thats what building Something Better is all about. Its me . Alright emma, i know its not your favorite but its time for your medicine, okay . You ready . One, two, three. [ both ] emma, emma bobemma bananafanafofemma feefifofemma emma very good sweety, how do you feel . Good. Yeah . You did a really good job, okay . [ female announcer ] to nurses everywhere, thank you, from johnson johnson. For weeks weve been hearing r rumblings for biden movement. In the history of modern democratic primaries theres always been a establishment favorite and progressive alternative. In 2008 barack obama succeeded where previous challenges where hart and brown lee failed because he combined progressive liberal whites and africanamericans. So, how does joe biden avoid being bill bradley or gary hart in 2016 . If he runs, bidens hope would be these groups would become the base of his support. Thats not going to be easy. Right now, the barack obama 2008 coalition is already splintered. Let me take a look. Africanamericans right now are for Hillary Clinton in a big way. The progressive liberal democrats, which have been a way to slow down establishment candidates in the past, well, theyre starting to break for Bernie Sanders. So, biden right now cant comment on progressive whites because theyre split between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton and they cant count on africanamericans right now because theyre for Hillary Clinton. So, the question, and Melissa Harrisperry, i want to start with you, joe biden gets in. Is there a way for him to excite the africanamerican vote, that somehow they would abandon Hillary Clinton . Oh, absolutely. You believe that . Sure. I think biden is great for the Democratic Party if he runs even if he has no shot of winning because democrats need to win in the general election is a broad group of people across the country who have become not only excited but also registered. Thats what we saw in 2008. So, you need a long and hardfought campaign in order to get them registered to show up to vote. The important thing about africanamerican voters, they were also in Hillary Clintons camp prior to the Iowa Caucuses in 2008. If joe biden can present your way that is more clearly responsive to black lives matter and if he can present in a way that he is truly the white houses guy, hes really the person who is kind of obamas guy. The third obama term, i do think and he has really almost not president clinton but good enough to do the fluidity discourse with with black communities. Matt bai, weve been covering joe biden a long time. Hes author of the infamous crime bill from the mid90s that increased incarceration rates among africanamericans. Im told hes not totally ready to renounce that deal. Thats going to be a dealbreaker with the black lives matter movement.