Transcripts For WPVI Inside Story 20170820

Terms, and actually died while he was running for yet another term. He was famously tough on crime and urban blight. But civilrights leaders have accused his words and actions of venturing into territory that was racist and divisive. That statue were talking about right now honoring rizzo is placed in front of the Municipal Services building, which is right in the middle of center city, in 1998. Ajay, should it be moved . Should it be placed in a new location . Should it be put in storage . Or should it be left there and thats it . I dont know if it should be moved to a different location. Let me talk about two things. One people have equated moving of statues as erasing history or rewriting history. To me, if that was the concern, that should not be a concern because you have a history channel, you have the internet, you have the history books. History is not being erased. The question is, the statues that we create and bronze and put in Public Square, are they of people in whom we see aspirational values as a society . And if we believe that the values that mayor rizzo stood for are consistent and consonant with our values today of inclusivity and other things that america stands for, philadelphia stands for, then he should stay where he is. If hes not, then he should be moved as a relic of history, but not as somebody that we admire and celebrate in Public Square. I would ask, where does this end though . Frank rizzo statue is moved, what about fdr . What about someone who, you can justify it historically or not, imprisoned hundreds of thousands of people in internment camps . Not that frank rizzo and fdr, matt, are the same guy. But where does it stop . It is neverending, this week. And ive heard people yesterday talking about the idea that somehow or another, guys like general lee, who i cant defend, and if they remove his statue, im fine with that, is similar to hitler. There ought to be an adult conversation about this, and whos gonna decide about frank rizzo . Thats what id like to start. But i think that there are adult conversations. Thats why i think that its important. Ive heard a lot of people talking about it. Ive had the chance to talk to people over the last week. I mean, i lived in communities where frank rizzo had people scared to death when he came in with dogs and had dogs that looked very much like what you would see when you see pictures of what was going on in the south. I was here, in the city, when he made statements like, we need to save philadelphia for white people, and he said to an africanamerican reporter, be careful your black is showing. I mean, we lived through those kinds of experiences. And a lot of people thought that the statue should not have been placed there in the first place and that it was placed in order to try to say, you know, the things that you went through dont really matter. And so my position is, i think that it should be moved. But i think we should spend the time to talk about it. Because i think learning the history and understanding what really happened during the time during his reign and Police Brutality and all of those issues are important for us to talk about today. Would you be okay with it being moved to a different location . I mean, i havent gotten that far. I dont think that i would be that, you know, upset if it was moved to another community. But i do think that when you talk about it, and i like ajays comment, about being in the Public Square. We want things that are in the Public Square to be things that are aspirational, that were looking up to. I mean, for example, right now the city is building its first africanamerican statue for a gentleman named octavius catto, who was brutally murdered trying to register africanamericans to vote in the city of philadelphia. Thatll be the first statue in philadelphia. I think itll be inspirational to everyone in the city. I agree with that, matt. I just want to make a point though. I see the mood in philadelphia though. If youre a conservative, i dont see that ever being aspirational under the current climate of whos running philadelphia. The catto statues a tremendous idea, and there ought to be more of that. Sadly, theres not. I think theres a couple things going on here. Ed, you know, jump in. Reinterpreting things with our current morality. Our morals change over time, and so certain thi Woodrow Wilson would be another example of what you saw over there in princeton. And also, trying to figure out where you draw the line between what is historic and what is a statement. Now, some of these statues in the south were placed well after the civil war and are more overt statements of, you know, hey, this is, you know, how we feel. Whereas, in gettysburg, the National Park service had to go out and say, listen, were not gonna remove the confederate statues here, because that is literally where you go to see, you know, history and what happened there and to honor, you know, that moment in time. I think its very dangerous to look back in history and remove people from the context of their times and judge them by the sensibilities of the present. Its very problematic to do that. I think we can agree on this much vandalizing the statues, or having the mob tear them down, is not a good thing. Its just not. Having a discussion within a context where we as a civilized people, under the rule of law, can come together and say, okay, well have elected officials look at this. You may not like the outcome, but at least the process is respectful of the notion that we will have objective standards. And this will be transparent. Well have the opportunity to discuss a person in full. Ill tell you my earliest recollection of frank rizzo. My parents sitting in the kitchen, very concerned because my dad had to go into a rough neighborhood to work, and American Cities were burning because the black panthers were rioting. And frank rizzo didnt let it happen in philadelphia. I still remember the inquirer and the bulletin had that photo of the black panthers being stripped, up against the wall. Frank rizzos way of saying, youre not gonna burn this town. Right. And all of them found innocent and all of them let go because that was an illegal act. They had not done anything illegal. So, look. We can agree to disagree on the tactic, but i am saying that, as we sit here in 2017 and we look with absolute clarity on what happened in the late 1960s, be very careful. But i would still argue, ed, that driving fear into communities of color is not the way to be fair. And when you look back on history, thats what people are fighting back against. This is against fear. My second recollection of rizzo was standing in line for his funeral on the parkway. And i just happened to be with a segment of people who were all black. And i just listened as they were telling stories about rizzo. And they said, he did protect our community. You can disagree with that. Im just telling you what i experienced directly. And i think we all are talking about our own experiences, and thats why its important to have these kind of conversations, to make sure that there is a process. And thats what i think were seeing in the city of philadelphia. If we hear the mayor, the mayor says, its time for us to have a conversation. I think its horrible that people are sending hate emails or hate messages to councilwoman gym, because she has asked for this. This is a time for us to have a conversation. And whether we agree with everything that everyone believes and whatever your experiences are, finding that space in the Public Square is something that i think were at least setting the tone for. Well, i would say, with you, i respect you, and it would be a good conversation. The councilwoman and others, this decision is already sealed. They will remove the statue. I dont think theres any doubt about it. Its very clear. We have people, sharmain, talking about taking down his mural in south philly. We have a wilson goode mural. Man who was involved in bombing the city. I see this as problematic. Kenney himself you believe will. I believe its a fait accompli. This is all over but the shouting. Philadelphia is sending a message this is a new philadelphia. This old philadelphia is pretty much reprehensible and frank rizzo represents that. Wrap this up, ajay. Look, i think one consensus we as americans have is that we can survive as a nation without consensus. That pluralist, Diverse Community where we have so many differences of culture, practices, behavior, and everything else. We have a shared consensus that we can disagree on things, but how we disagree still matters. So there i echo my brothers comment, right there, ed, that i do agree that i should be a peaceful conversation. But i will say this you know, if the lion had a pen, we would be reading tales about the lion, not the hunter. So it also depends on the perspective of the people who wrote the laws and who say what the perspectives are, and for the most part, those of color in our communities, especially those oppressed, have not a chance to voice their opinion, especially those who have been oppressed. And i mean mostly the africanamerican and latino community. Im sorry, ajay. It has been very difficult to have a peaceful discussion this week, particularly because what happened in charlottesville, along with the political and national response. Weve seen people in, for instance, bucks county honoring the victims of what happened. We see the pictures of the White Supremacists and the torches. We see the violence between the White Supremacists and people that are grouped as antifascists, or youve heard the term antifa, who went down there feeling like they were provoked into this whole battle that became what happened in charlottesville. I just learned that, sharmain, that is your hometown. Thats my hometown. Charlottesville, virginia. And im sure you have a lot to say about your city. But maybe also talk about, where are we as a nation right now . Well, i wish i had that answer. Because i think it is a very difficult time. Ive been talking to people all week. Ive had a chance to talk to teens, to young adults, and to older people. And there are people who are sad, there are people who are very angry, there are people who are afraid. Because theyre used to us finding voices at the highest level, including the president of the united states, trying to unify when we have issues in areas where maybe we cant find consensus or we cant agree. We do agree that equality matters. I still believe that thats a principle in this country. We still believe that people should be treated fairly based on the content of their character and not the color of their skin. And seeing this kind of ongoing hate just continuing to resurrect itself in our country is very, very sad, and is very difficult to watch again. With your radio program, dom, what sort of things are you hearing from the voices . Its very mixed, if i had to characterize it. They believe ultimately that President Trump mangled this badly, particularly the first day, on that saturday attempt. I dont see these people, the two groups, as america. I see these as more outliers, both the antifa, lot of them here in philadelphia, and the nazis. These are relatively small numbers. They want to battle with each other and provoke the rest of us i think into believing there are more of them. I believe there are more people like the young woman, who unfortunately was killed and was there to speak truth to the nazi element and was not part of all this violence. But these other two, matt, weve identified this week, they constantly are engaged in this kind of stuff. Ed and ajay, jump in on this. Interesting comment i received on facebook by someone named pat conrad. We are, for some unknown reason, allowing a small group of immature, uninformed, hatefilled people on both sides of the spectrum, to destroy us. Well, i think especially with the spread of the internet, our facebook pages have become the ghettos of grievance, ghettos of where our hatred is spread. So, yes. But to sharmains point, at moments like this, when you have extremes trying to rope in, as dom suggested, the rest of us into a fight that we dont want to be part of, then you look at leaders. And i think President Trump. In the beginning, my suspicion was he was playing clark kent to david dukes superman. Now im not sure whether or not theyre both the same people or not. And i think thats where he lost the moral high ground of his position, when he did not immediately denounce the nazis and the White Supremacists. He shouldve done that immediately. cause thats not what america stands for. I think the tenor of the politics of the time is extraordinarily bad, because. And i agree that social media and the internet have served to exacerbate, or to overamplify, certain problems. But weve got this kind of politics of identity that has broken the country into a toxic tribalism where youre not so much looking for the things that make us the same or put us in common company, but instead, whos your enemy . And, do you and i have the same enemy . Right. Its a very toxic environment. And weve lost perspective. I do think doms right about how these very tiny margins are driving public perceptions. Example from 2000 to 2016, this is what the fbi and department of Homeland Security said, there were 46 instances of whitesupremacist violence, in which 29 people were killed. Thats a 16year period. I mean, these losers have managed to create the impression that somehow they represent a vast swatch of the country. They dont. And i think the main transgression the president made is when he said that, in that protest, you saw people of good conscience on both sides. No. There may be a disagreement where people of good conscience say, dont tear down the lee statue, but if you show up at a klan nazi rally, youre not a person of goodwill. Amen. Youre just not. The idea that these rallies are huge amounts of peo its the same people going to the same ones, and the idea that theres irreparable damage being done to our country. Simply not true. Because theres too few people. Im sorry. We have to go. We have to go. Well be right back. Inside story is presented by temple university. Remarkable change isnt easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. Explore temples impact. Visit temple. Edu impact. We buy any car dot com we buy any car dot com we buy any car dot com any any any any did you know trading in your car at a dealer could cost you money . A recent study found consumers who trade in their car pay an average of 990 dollars more. So dont trade in. Sell it. To we buy any car. Learn more and get your free online valuation now at we buy any car dot com find out how much your car is worth at webuyanycar. Com we love our props here in inside story, and i have one right here. This is our topic. Gerrymandered in pennsylvania now. Take a look at this, as i explain. The Supreme Court will hear a case this fall that will have justices consider if gerrymandered political maps violate the constitution. Many critics are using this. This is the Congressional District. Its 7th Congressional District in pennsylvania. As exhibit 1a. It is famously called goofy kicking donald duck. This right here is goofy. You see how hes kicking donald duck there, okay . This is real Congressional District. I even outlined it myself. Critics claim this is very much an example of why republicans in pennsylvania hold 13 of the 18 house seats while democrats way outfavor the gop in voter registration. How does this happen . They say its gerrymandered Congressional Districts like this. Was it wrong for the Republican Legislature and a republican governor to approve a district like this back in 2011, dom . Its sadly the spoils of politics. They just have gotten better at it, or with computerization and experts and all that, this is the big prize to do it. So i dont condone it. And i know somebody ran in 7, not pat meehan but somebody else, and i asked him, where are you calling me from . And i couldnt believe it. As much as i thought i knew where the 7th Congressional District is. Yeah. There are a million more democrats in the state, registered democrats. Forget independents or any other party, right . A million more democrats in the state, and the Congressional District is not at least split 50 50 . There is something wrong with how the lines are being drawn. And i think the difficulty has been in figuring out, is there an independent way of redrawing the lines . And my understanding is, theres some great mathematicians out there who can figure some of this out. So im looking forward to seeing some kind of independent commission and some mathematicians to get us to the fact that we have representation that represents the registered voters in this state. Im gonna guess that the republican line on this would be, well, you guys are just trying to find a backdoor into winning elections. Democrats are trying to play dirty too. No, ill say that differently. The Voting Rights act, and the way in which districts were drawn to increase the number of minorities, did something very similar. So the constitution does call for districts of roughly approximate size, right . Thats what we should have. But there have been any number of reasons why both sides have decided that they want tortured shapes like that, rorschach tests basically, in determining what the districts are. I actually think that this one issue is one of the biggest issues why we cant come together as a country. Because we have vacuumed up as many voters of each side so that they are in their separate corners, and as a result, if youre an elected official, you had better speak to your constituency and all of their biases. The extreme on either side. All they worry about is the primary. After that, theyre good. Theyre gonna win the general election. Thats what i said lets bring in the mathematicians, lets try to figure it out. Well, i think there is some truth to the fact that its the spoils of war, whoever is the victor. But one way to counter that is to increase voter turnout. Theres still enough gap there, in voter turnout, no matter where you are, regardless of gerrymandering, to get your person elected. And those who are sitting on their couch, theyre to blame. People at home could do something about it. Lets take a breath, okay . Its one of those weeks, and theres been a lot of them, where its been painful to try and, you know, form consensus in this country and believe in the future. Neil degrasse tyson, the famous astrophysicist, is trying to talk to the totalsolareclipse viewers tomorrow when it happens to watch it, okay . To actually watch it. He advised anyone who wants to take part, to not take your phone and hang it up and be doing the eclipse selfies and all. He says to watch and experience it. Experience this one emotionally, psychologically, and physically. So all the people on this table, the good men and women of this table, do you promise to actually look up into the sky with your own eyes and leave your phones in your pockets . No, cause i dont want to go blind. [ laughter ] ophthalmologists is there not an eye doctor to ask . Theyre jumping off the couch right now, coming for you here. What are you saying . People know you got to wear your protective lenses. Some of them are counterfeit. They were made in china maybe. Yeah, seriously. I dont know. But i do want to give a shoutout to our own derrick pitts, right here in philadelphia at the franklin institute, who has been doing a terrific job in really getting the city ready and prepared. Hes been writing, hes been calling. So whatever derrick tells me to do, thats what im doing. But there is a romantic notion that, instead of hiding behind the internet, engage in a conversation. Look at a sunset, live the moment. Dont worry about your retinas. Yeah. Well be right back. Inside story is presented by temple university. Remarkable change isnt easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. Explore temples impact. Visit temple. Edu impact. Inside stories of the week. We start with sharmain. Well, i want to end on an optimistic note. Last friday, we ended our Summer Youth Employment program, where we had a chance to celebrate young people. And i really want to thank everybody who hired a teen this summer and really gave them a job. And to say take one day off, because we got to get ready for next summer. So start thinking about doubling up. We need you. Thanks, sharmain. Dom. My inside story taney field. I played ball there growing up. And its named after this chief justice who was the dred scott decision, slaverydecision guy. Movement now that i support to rename it mone davis field. Thanks, dom. I know we have limited time, but just a shoutout to all the folks who work on biotech and pharma and especially penn medicine temple, chop, and others. We have great people finding cures for cancer and others. They dont get enough attention. I hope we celebrate them as well. Thank you, ajay. Ed. This controversy in the south. Weve talked about the civil war. It was precipitated by nullification. The south saying, we will not accept federal law. The sanctuarycity Movement Needs to look at this very carefully, because theyre playing the same dangerous game. Ed, ajay, sharmain, dom, thanks for joining us. Thanks to you for watching. Theres a lot of very difficult issues out there that are difficult to talk about, but were gonna continue doing it here in this local forum that we have for you every week. Thanks for watching. Well see you next week. Ill see you monday morning on action news. And watch the total solar eclipse, with the glasses. Oh, with the glasses. And not with your phone. With the glasses. Im nydia han along with gray hall. Coming up next on action news. The son of former philadelphia mayor frank rizzo speaks out about the vandalism of his fathers mural and statue. Are you disappointed you did not win . We take a look at the growing Powerball Jackpot after no one got all six numbers last night. Biking for a cause in ardmore. Those stories, plus the exclusive accuweather sevenday forecast next on action news. Fios is not cable. Were a 100 fiber optic network. And with the new fios gigabit connection. You get our Fastest Internet ever. With download speeds up to 940 megs 20 times faster than most people have. Switch to fios gigabit connection with tv and phone for 79. 99 a month online for the first year. Plus hbo for one year and multiroom dvr service for two years, all with a twoyear agreement. And switching has never been easier. Get out of you contract with up to a 500 credit to help cover your early termination fee. Go to fiosgigabit. Com august 20, im nydia han along with gray hall. Heres a look at the stories were following on action news. This noon were learning about what caused a bus to crash on i78 accepting two dozen people to the hospital. Police tell action news what led