were turned away and sent back to syria in the philadelphia area. so, a lot of these folks just say they're so furious about this in particular, that it's unconstitutional and unlawful, that they're getting these big protests together and going to meetings. in king of prussia, they had 3,000 people meet to figure out how do we protest effectively against this new president. what do you think of, number one, was it unconstitutional, jim, the executive order, and, number two, to the panel, are these protesters gonna be able to get some steam behind themselves and make a difference? does it matter? the man won the election. >> well, you know, monica, i don't know if it's unconstitutional, but i can tell you, when i worked for bill clinton, i worked on executive orders. these things are vetted inter-agency. lawyers from, you know, many different departments are gonna touch these things, look at them. all the possible contingencies are, you know, vetted and looked at. unless it's some absolutely emergency, which this wasn't. and i think this is just another example of the trump administration getting off to this stumbling start. no coherency internally. you've got a president just snapping his fingers and saying "i want to do this or that." >> so you don't think that we're vetted in this case? >> and a staff that's afraid to say, "wait, slow down." yeah, i think it wasn't properly vetted. the ramifications weren't thought through. see, you had people who were lawfully in the country, had gone home to visit their ailing mother, they've got a family of three kids and a husband back in california, and they can't get home. it's crazy. >> right. and, so, do you think the protests, obviously, they feel they have merit. do you think they'll be able to garner enough support to make a difference, to have an impact, nia? >> the whole concept of the protest, again, it's like, what is the end goal? it's one thing to get out in the streets and say "i'm angry," but unless you have a directed goal, unless you say "i'm angry and i'm gonna channel this anger toward moving a piece of legislation, trying to get my congress person, senator to vote a certain way, we're gonna get x-number of signatures or some sort," then the protests come and the protests go. this is not necessarily a politician or a person in power who really cares about the protests. any news is good news. there's no such thing as bad publicity. and i would have to agree, it did not seem as though this executive order was well-vetted. it was sloppy. it was sloppy, and it came across as un-american. and even if some people say it's legal, there's the spirit of the law, and there's the intent of the law. and this just did not pass the smell test. >> meantime, mayor kenney has said people who come from now on into the philadelphia international airport, in that terminal in particular, are going to be treated the way they have been for years until the constitutionality is decided. so he's, in a way, perhaps thumbing his nose at the president's executive order. >> i think he is. and i would say this is a pause. it's not an executive order forever. it was not done with the green card people particularly. and that allowed people on the other side to protest and use that. but they would have done this anyhow. i mean, they're spoiling for a fight. and i'm in the camp that thinks that protesters are helping trump, particularly when we see, some of this gets conflated, the berkeley protesters, the rioters. and some of the madonna and the women's march and all that, i think the face of it is not the people that are necessarily new people to this and well-meaning. i think the face of it is more the other, and the net here is it helps trump. he got dinged because this wasn't done in the proper manner, but the broad goal of it, i think, works. >> meantime, the two syrian families, among others, are filing lawsuits against the federal government saying they want, at least, their airfare paid back. >> i'd say so. >> at the very lowest. and a federal judge, ann donnelly of new york, did grant a stay to part of the order to people who were negatively impacted for other reasons. so, parts of it are being challenged in the courts. >> and it's the frame in which you see how this extremely sloppy executive order was executed. here in greater philadelphia, where we have much more of a liberal to left point of view, we do see it as egregious and un-american for the most part, not everybody. but in other parts of the commonwealth of pennsylvania and the central part of the country, they are seeing it as these are threats. not necessarily these individuals, but individuals from these countries that do have the majority of muslim citizens that have attacked in europe. >> but another point, there are countries that were not included, like saudi arabia, where, by the way, the 9/11 bombers all came from. >> right. >> well, i would say that's another flaw. rand paul was on my show, and i think he's second to none when it comes to the constitution. he wanted to have a pause with 34 countries, including russia, which i would also. and saudi arabia, the tension there, i'm in agreement with pausing with them, is war on isis, oil... >> but they have in some new intelligence introduced to the country that said, "listen, we see these immediate threats that are coming on. with these threats, this is what we're gonna do." that would have made more sense. that did not happen. it just came out of the blue. i mean, the president had just been here with his republican colleagues and everybody, no whispers of that there. anytime that the people in your own party are taken aback like, "whoa, what happened?" charlie dent was one of the people saying, "hey, this is not constitutional. i don't like the feel of this. this is hurting my constituents." it was un-american. period. >> a couple of republicans did react negatively against their own president. although, our own senator pat toomey for pennsylvania broke his two-week silence about the issue. he did decide to jump in there and say he goes along with it. >> well, it took him the entire campaign to decide whether to vote to trump. >> he came onboard. >> i think he announced that at 7:00 at night on election night. >> on election night. josh shapiro, who's the new pennsylvania attorney general, said he considers it unconstitutional, un-american, and unlawful. and senator bob casey, a democrat from pennsylvania, did release a statement, which we have, and his was very terse as well, saying that president trump's actions, he believes, will have grave potential effects on pennsylvania on a number of executive orders, not just the one about the muslim immigrants who are coming in. >> so, two things quickly. one, one thing you say about trump, he said it in his campaign, and he's delivering it now as president. i'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but i'm saying... >> what, discord, chaos? >> yeah, that was the campaign, too. arnold schwarzenegger wasn't in his campaign platform, but apparently he is more now in terms of ratings at the prayer breakfast. that being said, something very important happened on friday. at least, it was reported on friday, which was council president darrell clarke said maybe philadelphia should reconsider its sanctuary policy. watch out for that, because that is something that, clearly, the mayor and the city policy clearly disagrees with. >> i also find that dann cuellar, to his credit, got jim kenney to say "300 million bucks? oh, that might make a difference." >> that was smart, right? >> i was shocked. i had never thought jim kenney would buckle even for $300 million. >> but the mayor's spokesperson, lauren hitt, immediately came back on darrell clarke's statement and said we're not gonna do that, we're not reconsider this. >> it's not the type of city we're gonna be. >> chaos is in an interesting comment, because that's what we're seeing. we're seeing everything being thrown up against the wall, saying "okay, look over here, look over here, look over here, but don't pay attention to this here," right? and so that goes back to that aspect of protesting. people will get protest fatigue because it's like, "okay. what are we protesting now?" literally, every day across the sphere, when i talk to people, they say, "i feel exhausted. how long has he been in office? it's been two weeks? are you kidding me?" >> it's called flooding the zone -- a super bowl reference. >> exactly. but, you know, this blitzkrieg-type of policymaking is not necessarily effective. and, let's just say, it's like riling our allies. i mean, suddenly australia's an enemy we've got to get tough with? >> mexico. >> right? >> i mean, really? >> but mainly people who are protesting are looking further down the road to 2018. and if democrats, by the way, lose eight more seats, then republicans have a filibuster-proof majority. they've got their three-fifths going forward. so the rallies, the protests might, as nia said, want to focus and actually take action if they want to have an impact. >> well, that's where the action is. and, i mean, i'm on bob casey jr.'s mailing list. >> mm-hmm. >> and he was at his office taking phones, "hi, this is senator casey," and people were shocked. and we're not close to 2018 yet. he's in a -- i don't know if i can pennsylvania a red state with any credibility, but he's feeling it already. and all these votes on betsy devos and these others coming up are gonna be an acid test. if they go too much to their base -- i'm talking about the democrats -- in red states, i think they're gonna have a bit of a problem. >> strategists are telling some of these protesters "how do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time." you know, take baby steps, and pretty soon you've walked a ways. do you agree that there could be an impact, or do you think that really, when you hear from senator cory booker, new jersey, senator bob casey, pennsylvania, they were advising some lgbt members, for example, how to get their protests in line and make them effective. do you think there could be an impact? >> there absolutely can be an impact if they harness this energy. one thing that senator booker said was if you're for lgbt rights, you for women's rights. there are so many things, as nia said before, that folks are protesting -- the cabinet officials, the nomination of the supreme court justice. they've got to stay together. and democrats, you know, that's the line. they've got to stay together and put up good candidates and raise money. >> herding cats has always been a challenge with democrats. >> that's why i think the women's march was so effective, because that was not a one particular issue. it was broad base coalition. by the way, i was in dc. there were more people there than there were for the inaugural. [ laughter ] >> don't tell the president that. >> some alternative facts there. >> and don't think that doesn't irritate the president. and as long as this emphasis continues in a more broad front that, "a," he's a minority president. he did not win the popular vote. and we can turn our protests on a broad coalition of issues that are big, you know? >> but the protests, jim, i think, are more fun. people have to show up and vote. it's a common type of thing. >> got to get candidates, too. >> yeah, but they did not show up and vote. >> but it's waking up people who never would have done things, right? and to your point, monica, absolutely. people have to figure out, okay, if i'm gonna run for office, what is that going to take? if i'm gonna harness this energy -- if you look at the democratic leadership in dc, i mean, they're all aarp members just about. [ laughter ] so, that being said, there's nothing wrong with wisdom and age, however, you have to refresh. >> absolutely. >> if you do a comparison between the top officials in the republican party and those in the democratic party, you will see youth is not on the side of the democrats. now's the time for renewal of energy and for leadership. and this is an opportunity for women's issues, for issues that deal with vulnerable populations. and these are people who have been ignored, who feel like, oh, well, we're just being subjugated right now because we're being jammed up behind fear. oh, my goodness. all these people are gonna come to attack us, even though we have had no evidence of that. it is disturbing the way these type of edicts have been rolling out. and for all those people that talked about president obama being the "imperial president," they're surprisingly quiet right in through here. >> and not every voting block in philadelphia, by the way, is anti-trump and protests. >> that is correct. >> let's be clear. in fact, the head of one of our biggest unions, ibew, john dougherty, they had a couple of signs, if you will, up in a very prominent place down on market street, i believe. >> that's what i read about. >> exactly saying "go trump." >> and they were right over the protesters, too. it was shocking. >> and so, when people ask him "what's that all about?" he basically said, "i support the guy 'cause he's gonna save and create jobs, and i'm a union boss." >> that's what he says. >> you know, monica, this is a realignment possibility of the political parties. what trump has been able to do, at least to win, and, perhaps, will he do effectively, and this brings in the unions, he's met with the unions in his first week on the job. he's talking about infrastructure spending. he's talking about pipelines and energy. and he's talking about -- and these union members and workers, of course they want jobs. the environment might not be as big a concern for them vis-à-vis getting a good-paying job. and john dougherty, he said he's gonna represent his members. >> absolutely. >> it's a great carrot. it's a great carrot. >> all right. >> follow through. >> meantime, let's talk about the soda tax money that is coming in by the bucket loads. there is a fight over who's gonna hand it out to the schools and how. it sounds like to me a bit of a power struggle. maybe i'm missing something here. but there's $500 million already from the rebuild of city rec centers and parks and other things that is gonna be the first level of handing out. but who should do it? should it be two non-profits, or should it be city council, which would give them, obviously, more control? they say they'd been to those community meetings, they know where people need a new particular monkey bars and a rec center to be rebuilt. and the non-profits maybe have not attended those meetings. but, by the same token, non-profits bring a fresh perspective and have some practice in this area. >> you know, monica, what the mayor wants to do is run these projects through the fairmount park conservancy and the free library foundation, i believe. both of which have great experience with running similar projects -- revitalizing parks around the city. so that's point one. point two, fairmount park conservancy, council president clarke, and council member bass sit on that ex officio. >> so they'd have a voice. >> right. so i don't see, other than a political desire, to divvy up this money among councilmanic districts -- which there's nothing wrong with that from a political position, but whether it's right for the city, i think, is a different question. >> and i think it was nia in a previous show -- may have been nia who said it -- part of this is they want to be out there cutting ribbons in their own councilmanic districts. >> and the mayor said there's no problem with that. >> they wouldn't be in-- would they be invited? there are 200 projects. surely you can get a few council people out. >> you know what? it's one thing to be invited. it's another to be the person with the thumbprint, "i put this here" type of thing. >> and they -- i'm sorry. >> i'm sorry. when you have people in your district that you're responsible to, you want to feel like, okay, i can go back to betsy or jim and say "this is what's going on." >> of course. >> and right now, they would be kind of cut out of that process. so, i think there can be a strong case made for a hybrid, where you can have councilmanic influence, because they do know these things. >> sure. >> i mean, they've been there. they get those calls. the non-profits might be great for the execution aspect of it, but they're gonna be a little colder. >> does it make it too much bureaucracy and red tape, though, if you have double layers of people making decisions? >> you can blend it. >> it's the slow when it's the city. you have -- council has to approve the bonds by which these will be funded. and one very important point that, of course, the mayor is very big at -- and city council, frankly -- is you have to have the city by council -- or excuse me -- city rules the lowest bidder. what that may hurt is goals around diversity, and minority- and women-owned businesses. so, there are some very meritorious goals. >> i think this is the most efficient way to do it. and the other interesting thing to remember legally, there still is a challenge sitting out there to the soda tax. >> that's right. >> those that have brought that challenge have not been able to get it in junction. they have not prevailed at that level. very smart of the mayor to say we're starting to get this money, and we're gonna spend it. >> sure, before it gets taken away, if it does. all right, we'll take a break. "inside story" continues right after this. >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. fios is not cable. we're wired differently. so we created internet that doesn't make you wait. introducing fios instant internet. it means you can download a video just like that. or upload your photos like this. or this. or that. it's the only 750 meg internet available to millions, with uploads as instant as downloads. we took internet speed and completely reinvented it, introducing fios instant internet. internet the way it should be. >> welcome back, everyone. pennsylvania governor tom wolf is doing some budget-cutting. we're gonna have a multi-billion dollar deficit apparently. and so he's trying to merge two health departments and manage -- read into that, cut education funds possibly, and do other things to save money. and he's also hired for $81 million -- closed a prison in allegheny county. that will some money, but he's hired an outside consultant to try to find another billion dollars to save of the $1.8 billion that we're gonna have a deficit of. so he's trying to slash the deficit in half, in effect. that's a big contract to go out to one of these independent contractors to figure out where the savings could be. do you like the fact that he's going outside to look for help, or should he have used the people that we already have in place for that? >> well, i think the answer's to be determined. i'm not trying to skirt the question, but what i think his budget secretary said, right now in the draft budget that he will deliver next tuesday, they're probably gonna take 90% to 95% of their recommendations. to me, i look at this as like -- and i don't mean to use, you know, big -- mckinsey, that's the firm -- words, roi -- return on investment. if it shows that they have made some suggestions that enhance and the legislature will accept them, then i'm not necessarily against having an outside firm do it. it seems a little political when you criticize it -- 'cause i think the republicans can do it, too -- but they're are people that do it in the budget. >> tom wolf is an mit guy. mckinsey is a world-renown consultant in this area, highly respected with a lot of mit guys. so i don't think it's a bad idea. i do think that getting rid of the department of aging is a mistake. i don't say that because my wife was the secretary of aging. >> full disclosure. >> we have the second-largest elderly population in the country outside of florida, so there's a lot of people impacted. >> that's why governor casey created that department. and those issues are separate and distinct from the kind of issues that dpw normally handles. so, i think that's a mistake. >> well, i think the prison thing might be a mistake. i don't know the innards of it, but it's surprising to me that, suddenly, we don't need all these prisons. and the line out there is we were building prisons just to build them. it was a broke industry. >> left and right. >> left and right. i don't know about that. i'm not sure of who gets sent to these prisons. >> and now you're creating overcrowding perhaps in other places. i don't know, but maybe. >> that's what we hear all the time. judges say it's overcrowded. so i think that's a rub. but it's a quick savings to engage in it, yeah. >> overcrowding equals lawsuits more times than not, and it can cause other damage. so, again, that's something that has to be studied. it's wonderful to have fresh ideas. and let's just be real -- pennsylvania, we're kind of slow to doing anything new. so this whole concept of bringing somebody else in and saying, okay, let's study this, i mean, it's great on one end. but, also, i think it's the process that more people are chaffed about. it kind of happened quickly. it was sort of like a new bid, and then suddenly we have this. so, it gives your enemies, politically, politically enemies, more fuel for their fire, which is not necessarily the case as far as whether it's a good idea. you don't want a good idea torpedoed behind the politics of it. >> he did say he's not -- >> things rarely pass in harrisburg just because they're a good idea. >> i'm sorry. he did say the governor's not gonna raise sales tax or income taxes, so he's trying to get by by cutting other budget items. all right, let's move on to what many people would consider a shocker -- the civil trial over the salvation army collapse in 2013 that killed six people and injured many others, 13 others -- rather, killed seven. and now the civil jurors have ruled that, in fact, the two people who went to prison for many years, 15, 20, 30 years for running backhoes that actually caused a wall to collapse on the salvation army thrift store in center city and were blamed nearly 100% back then are, in fact, in the civil trial's regard, only 1% or 2% liable, and they, in fact, blamed the wealthy people who were the architectural firm and the real estate developer from new york and his firm and say they should be more liable and even the salvation army should be liable. and they're gonna decide next week the monetary value they're assigning to that. were you shocked and stunned? >> i was, but i don't get the salvation army. i didn't got through -- i'm amazed that they're seeing liability here, but i'm in agreement with this. and i think they hired these people. i don't see that they -- i think that they neglected overseeing these people. it's pretty obvious based upon what they were doing on a regular basis right there in the center of downtown philadelphia. >> and, you know, legally, there's a big difference between criminal liability and civil liability. so, the fellows that were convicted under the criminal statute had to act intentionally or recklessly, i believe, would be the standard there. in the civil trial, you can have a much more expansive liability. so you can have a negligence, for instance, standard, which does not apply in criminal law. so i wasn't that shocked and stunned about it. probably a fair verdict. >> the naacp is calling for a new trial for the two men who were already in jail, the backhoe operator. >> but, you know, it's interesting. it's always the little guy that tends to get the big brunt of this type of thing. and this civil trial flipped the switch a little bit, so that was an interesting concept. and overall, when you look at it, they're the moneymakers and the decision-makers. and those are the people who, really, where the responsibility lies with, with the buck was supposed to start. i would agree, and clearly i'm not a lawyer, but truly, the criminal aspect has been handled, but now we're talking about the civil component of it. and civilly, these were the people that i think were responsible. and the jury, surprising, but it was definitely refreshing. >> let me talk about who has the most money -- it's the salvation army, if you look at their books. >> oh, yeah. >> and what i understand, and we've read in reports in the case, is the higher ups were told that there's a problem, and they didn't act upon it. >> right. >> and do the two men deserve a new trial? >> well, i'll say it as a non-lawyer, it seems very unfair that the penalty they got vis-à-vis the civil penalties that these folks with a lot more deep pockets got -- have. >> all right. inside stories of the week coming your way. we're gonna take a break. we'll be right back with more. ♪ >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. >> all right. time for inside stories of the week, and let's start with dom. >> well, lot of news this week. kind of fun news, or startling news. donald trump goes into the national prayer breakfast solemn, you know, usually and all, and digresses into an all-out battle with arnold schwarzenegger, who fires back at him, over "celebrity apprentice." what is not widely reported is when he tried to make the joke about praying for arnold, mark burnett, the creator of all these series, was the keynote speaker. he was right there. so trump just didn't go out there in the middle of iran or something and talk about schwarzenegger. he was going after mark burnett, just to put a little note to that to give some sanity to this whole thing. >> okay. nia? >> speaking of sanity and our president, we're also looking at the state of education in america, and clearly our president did not know that much about frederick douglass, who lived in the 1800s and actually died around 1895. he talked about him as if he was still a contemporary figure. in spirit, yes. if you need to know a little bit about african-american history, this is the month for it. we're in february. in philadelphia, you can go to the african american museum in philadelphia. if you're in new jersey, you can go to the new underground museum in burlington county or the one right here in philadelphia. >> all right. jeff? >> is there a new tone among democratic leaders in philadelphia and harrisburg? this past week, mayor jim kenney addressed the greater philadelphia chamber of commerce at the annual mayor's luncheon and said he will not be proposing any new or increased taxes in his budget for this coming year. and in harrisburg this coming tuesday, governor wolf will not propose an increase in the sales or income tax. sounds very republican-esque to me. maybe they're reaching out. >> okay, jim? >> monica, kudos to new attorney general josh shapiro. this week announced a big settlement against western union. remember them for transporting money and all that and telegrams? turns out that they also facilitate fraud -- fraud cases, telemarketing fraud -- against, particularly, seniors. and josh was able to settle that case and get $20 million for the commonwealth of pennsylvania to help combat that right here in our state. >> all right. terrific. and now we have a few minutes to figure out who are you supporting for the super bowl? who's gonna win it? >> i say the patriots, but i think brady was a cheater. [ laughter ] >> but he got the goods. >> i love belichick's -- you know, he's such an easy guy to get to know. >> okay. quickly, yours? >> i'm from pittsburgh. i'm still heartbroken over the patriots' decimation of my beloved steelers. i can't -- i would never bet against bill belichick. >> all right. quickly? >> i got to go with matt ryan. >> all right, and you? >> atlanta. >> go, atlanta! >> have a good day, everybody. >> i'm nydia han along with gray hall. >> coming up next on "action news," new quoments in -- developments in the legal fight about president trump's travel ban. an 81-year-old woman is recovering in the hospital after being pulled from a burning home in new jersey. septa is on the hunt for moving love stories we'll tell you about the prize septa is offering for any commuter crushes that found romances on their coach. >> good afternoon it is sunday february 5, i'm nydia han along with gray hall. >> here's some of the stories we're following on "action news," developing news

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