convicted of, will that impact the next attorney general? in other words, are people in the state of pennsylvania so disheartened by the continuing corruption issues that they will vote one way or the other based on running against corruption? what do you think? >> well, i think certainly it's an issue. and i think -- but neither of the two candidates were touched at all by the scandal. and so i don't see a direct connection between her and the two candidates who are running. so i don't think that that's going to be an issue. i do, though, want to just mention the idea that she was sentenced to jail time. i think a lot of people believe that she needed to be punished. but i'm still on the side of, you know, nonviolent crimes, for people going to jail for that, it's still a tough decision to make. >> she was an interesting figure, a rising star, nelson. four years ago, really an unheard-of person outside the political realm, who was able to get a mainstream job, and many thought there would be a stepping stone to the governorship, for a possible race for her down the road. and she did some things -- she forced the ouster of a couple of state supreme court justices, no small feat, prosecuted some government officials. do you think, though, the downside of her legacy is too far down? >> well, this question, because a judge sentenced her not only to the jail time, but also to eight years probation, which means that she's under the thumb of the same judge for over 10 years. and so if she violates any portion of it, she could get more jail time. and it's sad what's happened to her because no only did she lose her husband, she lost her job, she lost her license, and now she's going to spend time in jail. i thought it was a pretty harsh sentence, and i felt that there should have been some consideration. and the question is whether it was payback because of the judges that she got. she got two judges -- one democrat and one republican -- as a result of the scandal, with regard to the e-mails. and there were other judges that could have fallen. and so, you know, it stopped at one point. and she's not the first -- and she's not the first person, by the way, to have leaked that kind of information from grand juries to the press or to other folks. and she really was made somewhat of an example. >> well, i guess it was also lying to the second grand jury about what the leak was from the first grand jury that got her the perjury and obstruction of justice. is it also, though, that josh shapiro, democrat county commissioner from montgomery county, who's running for attorney general, has been saying he wants to clean up corruption? that's one of his planks in his campaign. and senator john rafferty, of course, republican running as well, trying to do the same, i'm sure. >> i go back to what sharmain said. i don't think that this has any effect on the current race, nor do either of the candidates have an effect on what happened to her. and that brings me to what nelson said, the last thing about making an example. there's a concern, monica, that the powerful get away with things. and we can name a number of people, most prominently the whole question of whether james comey would have treated anyone else differently than he treated hillary clinton. that's a hot controversy. and in this case, because you've got the top law-enforcement officer who is engaged in this kind of activity, i think very much the judge decided, "we have to send a very firm example," especially given public discontent and the perception that the rich and powerful, the connected, get away with things that we mere mortals wouldn't. >> because they're connected, or because they have money and influence campaigns, allegedly, and other things they've been accused of doing. all right, let's move on to the senate race in pennsylvania, an interesting race, and it's going to depend a lot on the national top of the ticket, in many people's minds. so, pat toomey is the incumbent. katie mcginty is the challenger, democratic female -- would be the first female in that role if she wins. what do you think's going to happen, val? >> very close race. you could flip a coin at this point. i think -- and i'm not just saying this pat's the republican -- i think katie mcginty is totally out of her league on stage with pat toomey. we saw that in the debates this week, and then she was called on the carpet again for lying. she's been lying since the beginning of her campaign when she said she was the first person in her family to go to college. and then she put out this ridiculous commercial about the use of confession of judgment. and pat owned a bank -- pat toomey owned a bank -- and they used confession of judgment to, you know, kick little old ladies out of their homes. pat didn't own the bank. he's a 1% owner of the bank. confession of judgment, i can tell you -- i'm a banking lawyer -- is used daily in commercial transactions, only commercial transactions. and katie mcginty used it in her own dep, in her own department. >> some would say, after you mentioned the debate last week and our jim gardner moderated, that toomey had a strong performance, that hers was good, but many people felt his was stronger among the analysts i spoke with, but in fact he did not say if he's voting for the top of his ticket, donald trump, or not. do you think distancing himself or failing to mention that he's going to support or not going to support is going to hurt him ultimately? because it doesn't look loyal or because he's smart not to? which way? >> yeah, i think there is a problem with regard to the fact that he's being coy. and being coy, with regard to being a republican, not supporting the top of the ticket, or at least saying what he's going to do with regard to the ticket, i think those that are going to be supporting trump are going to be very angry at him, and he may lose that relationship. but i think it's a very, very close race, as val indicated, but it all depends on what happens in the hillary race. if hillary wins by more than 6%, she'll have coattail effects and she'll get into the senate. if it's less than 6%, i think then it gets a lot closer in terms of that election. >> so even though house speaker paul ryan has sort of given license to republicans down the ticket that they need to save themselves, do what they want to do, need to do, for their own races, not necessarily look to the top of the ticket, you don't think that gives him the ability -- pat toomey -- to sort of be coy about it? >> i mean, if you look at -- i mean, and, again, you know, polls -- we've seen many of them, but there's another poll out this week that came where the poll was actually in the field before and then right after the debate this week, which i thought was very good, and i thought katie did a really good job of talking about issues and positions. and they have her up three points now. so if hillary's doing great in the state and she's making some inroads on her own name and really pushing some issues that people really care about, i think she has a really good shot. >> all right, meantime, we are hearing differences on the issues between these two for the senate -- differences on pro-life and pro-abortion stances, or at least pro using the federal dollars to pay for abortions, corporate taxes or not corporate taxing millionaires, black lives matter. those are the three big topics that they differ markedly on. do you think those will be key when people are pulling the lever? >> i think people are going to go into the booth and they're going to look at their economic situation. i think this is very much going to be an economic race. in terms of mcginty's vote, a sizeable portion is going to be driven by the fact that she is a woman and that she is supporting someone who's not donald trump. >> so it's not a vote for her necessarily, it's a vote against trump and for hillary, which -- >> no, i wouldn't go that far. but i'm just saying, the way the data points line up, i think that when it comes to black lives matter and any number of other issues through all peripheral, i think people are looking at their pocketbooks. and right now, everyone's getting the bad news about their premium increase in terms of healthcare. that, i think, is something that has not been captured by polling because it's occurring in real time. we'll see how that plays. >> could be double the premium, val. the premiums are going to dramatically go up. >> yeah, but i would push -- i'm sorry, val, but i would push back on that. i mean, i think the initial story of, "there's a 25% increase," is not absolutely accurate. most of the people who are going to see an increase have subsidies and then those subsidies will cover the increase. that's an average... >> that's really spurious. >> is there anybody at this table who buys their own? i do. >> it's killing small businesses. >> go ahead, val. >> obamacare is killing small bus-- those are the guys and gals getting crushed. those are the ones who buy their own health insurance, and they're not subsidized. and those are the people who sometimes are swing voters. and it's not captured in the polls. >> right. >> the other thing about the poll, i'm going to say, is donald trump consistently, throughout the primary and in pennsylvania, was under polling by 6 points in a lot of states, including pennsylvania. so the polls are not right. they're not capturing the obamacare issue. they're no capturing people who don't want to admit they're voting for donald trump, just like in the frank rizzo years. so i don't believe the polls. i think hillary is winning, but not by the margin they say. >> there are two issues that i differ. one is, they've spent $121 million on this election -- the most expensive senate race in the history of the country. cities united is an issue with many of the voters, and that may help mcginty. the second issue is, when toomey said that black lives don't matter -- >> that's not what he said. >> he said, "all lives matter," which is to encompass more. you know, it's a bigger umbrella, if you will. >> whatever he said, that was offensive as it was to our community because of the police issue that has occurred throughout the country. he said, "yeah, there have been some offensive issues, but i got backed, he says, by the police." and to some extent, there is a real -- the american bar association, right now, has put a study group together, nationally, to look at the dishonest relationship that exists between the police and the community. and so to some extent, particularly the minority community, the black community, and so i don't think, in our community, we don't think that toomey gets the issue on the black lives matter issue because, yeah, all life matters, no question about that, but he doesn't get the question that there's a historical discriminatory practice that needs to be understood by our representatives. >> meantime, let's go back to the national aspect, because it does affect the senate race. let's talk about it. donald trump has specifically said that he believes pennsylvania might get stolen from him because, he says, there's historically been some issues with voter fraud, with people who have passed away still somehow magically being able to vote. and a rigged system, if you will, is what he has alleged, specifically about the keystone state. pedro cortés is our secretary of state pennsylvania chief election officer, and he obviously disagrees vehemently with that, saying, "it's not only unpatriotic to say such a thing about the keystone state, but, in his mind, disqualifying. and do you believe that's stepping over the line? it's questioning the democratic system. >> it's absolutely nonsense. i mean, across the country, secretaries of state have consistently talked about the fact that there is no evidence that there is any kind of widespread, or even small neighborhood-based, issues around voter fraud. as a matter of fact, on friday of this week, the philadelphia city commissioners opened up all the voting machines, invited people to come in, take a look at the process, take a look at the machines. there's a lot of oversight that is there. absolutely not widespread fraud. it's just another set of lies and issues to try to keep people from voting. >> having seen it happen, as a committee man in philadelphia, it's not a lie. i've witnessed them actually shutting the doors and voting people who are not coming out. that's why they don't want to purge the voter roles. it takes four election cycles before you can purge a voter role. the dead are voting. channel 6 reported it today, abc -- channel6.com -- whatever our website is. >> yep. 6abc.com. >> it happens. i've seen it happen, and i've called the da. i've called the police as a committee man. i've called committee of seventy. no one will do anything about it. bruce marks wrote an op-ed this week on how he got robbed, and a federal judge said he got robbed, when he ran. this happens over and -- i was involved in a race for mike fisher. there was literally -- when he was running for governor -- a bus going polling place to polling place. we saw it. we witnessed it. the police could do nothing. the da couldn't get out there in time. they were going from polling place to polling place voting. now, was it democrats or repu-- i don't know who it was, but i've witnessed this. >> well, we do know, in 2015, four democratic election officials were prosecuted for adding six votes to the ballot to equal out the number of people who had stood in line and registered because of some, i guess, miscommunication or of failure on that part. so they were prosecuted. and in 1994, there was a federal court case overturned that did overturn a state senate race because of absentee ballots being fraudulent. but is it predominant? >> it does happen. but they had a lot of other stuff that happens, too. the intimidation issue happens also in the voting places. i've seen dead people vote, no question about it, in south philadelphia, particularly. >> but you're saying it's not rampant. it's not widespread enough to -- >> nelson's right about intimidation because the new black panther party came out. and that was intimidation, when they were standing there, as people were coming in. look. donald trump will not lose because of this issue. this will not be material. but i would commend people at home, google "john fund" of the "wall street journal." he's written extensively about this problem, nationwide. >> all right, we're gonna take a break. "inside story" continues right after this. don't go away. we'll be back. >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. hillary clinton: far too many families today don't earn what they need and don't have the opportunities they deserve. i believe families deserve quality education for their kids, childcare they can trust and afford, equal pay for women, and jobs they can really live on. people ask me what will be different if i'm president? well kids and families have been the passion of my life and they will be the heart of my presidency. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. ♪ >> welcome back to "inside story." pension reform has been a hot topic in harrisburg. four years now, they've been trying to reform two different pension systems. and the current idea would have saved, they said, $2.6 billion over 32 years. it didn't happen. the legislature recessed and did not pass this controversial bill. do you think that's going to impact, obviously, workers who are currently working? this bill would have impacted future workers, for sure, but there's a big issue with how much pension reform is really hurting the budget. >> monica, it is the largest driver of spending, looking into the future. there is no way that we can do what is necessary in government without reforming the pensions. the political will to do what's necessary. >> because it's going to impact their own careers, obviously, in a future re-election. >> it's going to cause pain. and those who are currently receiving are concerned that after the game has started, you're changing the rules. but the debate has gotten to the point where you can't even draw the line and say, "this isn't about you. this is about the next person to come in." people aren't even buying that. and at some point, we're going to have a collapse, pensions will not be paid, and then, i suppose, we'll deal with it, but it's really a shame. this has gone on too long. >> well, then, val, how do we attack this issue? nobody wants to do it, but it's one of those where you have to just get in there and -- >> we wanted to do it. i mean, senator jake corman wanted to do it. mike turzai wanted to do it. we had 100, and we had 99 votes in the house, of the 119 republicans. not one democrat would cross party lines for it, in the house or the senate. we were ready to go. the governor -- i think if the governor -- if it had gotten to the governor's desk and he had signed it, it would have pretty much reassured his re-election. the governor not only didn't help get one democrat vote, he actually, we think, may have worked against getting some republicans to vote for it. and it's a shame. it's a missed opportunity. in my estimation, the bill didn't go far enough, but it was at least a step in the right direction. we couldn't even get this incremental change done. >> so where does that leave us? the next time that the legislature meets, they'll have to tackle it again in a different way, i suppose. >> it's an issue that's going to have to be tackled. i mean, some of the argument on the other side was, "this is the end of the term. why are we doing this, rushing it through? did we have enough time to really review it? do we understand the unintended consequences?" i don't think that it's going to go away. we're going to need to come up with pension reform. but i think we need to do it with a lot of public input and certainly public hearings and a lot of review. >> we're going to talk about atlantic city. sorry, nelson, we're going to move to another topic. but i'll let you have first crack at this one. atlantic city obviously has financial issues. and now the city leaders are trying to prevent a state takeover, so they have pitched what they call "a financial recovery plan." they would be selling off land, laying off about 100 workers, paying down $500 million of debt, they have slashed expenses -- things they think they can handle to get them back on track. but it matters whether the state's going to buy into it or not and if folks, residents, who are angry that their taxes, by the way, have doubled in the last six years, are going to be interested and find it palatable, as well. what do you think's going to happen, nelson? >> i would like to see atlantic city really taken over and not allow the continuation of the local legislation, because they don't have the funds, and you've got to receive the funds from the state and federal government to be able to make that as destination location. i mean, they're closing. they're losing jobs. they're closing a lot of the casinos. i think they're in dire need of some real receivership so that we can get that going again and not allowing the poor -- because you've got a very, very poor city -- to continue to try to pay the taxes that they don't have. >> so even if the plan has some valid points, you believe it's almost too little, too late? >> well, you've got to get state money. and the only way the state's going to provide money is by an oversight. they're not going to provide money to the same city council who has not been able to revive the city. >> speaking of taxes, chester county is proposing its first tax hike in four years. i'm sure folks there are nervous about that. >> five years. >> yes, and so, it is one of the fastest-growing counties, and they'd like to, obviously, generate some $7.5 million is what they say this new tax hike would do for that area. valid or not valid? >> yeah, it's, uh, you know, less than the rate of inflation. we try to do them every four or five years at the most and less than the inflation rate. we've consistently been able to do on a bipartisan level, with terence farrell and michelle kichline on the republican side, and kathi cozzone. they work on the democrat side. they work bipartisanly. it's less than the rate of inflation, and -- like, we only do these every four or five years if we can, you know, help it. >> all right, let's talk about a race issue that occurred, or has been ongoing, according to people who have suffered racism. they say in the "gayborhood", as it's known in philadelphia, in one section of the city, the lgbt community is being accused of not treating people of color very fairly and, in fact, mistreating them, not allowing them in bars and restaurants. and so, they went before the philadelphia commission on human relations to state their case. are you surprised at this? do you find that people really are not getting the treatment they deserve around town in every neighborhood? >> race is presented as the driving issue here. i think it tends to be more class than anything. i think, in many of those instances, where people are at loggerheads, it really does boil down to class. >> meaning their clothing isn't at the standard that the restaurateur or the patron or the bar wants or... >> i think that's certainly an element. full disclosure -- i don't know the issue well enough because i don't frequent the establishments, so i haven't seen it. but that doesn't mean it's not happening. >> well, i mean, there clearly are organizations that have come together, very specifically, to take a look at issues for their communities. there's an organization called colours, which looks at issues, specifically for lgbtq people of color. there's also another organization called galaei that specifically looks at issues in the latino community. so the idea that there are people organizing around specific issues, to me, says that there are definitely some concerns not just on how people are treated at bars, but are resources being fairly shared, and is everyone being connected to this work effectively? so, i definitely am happy to see the human relations commission took this on. the mayor was actually there himself, listening to the testimony. and if there are serious issues, and it sounds like there are, i think that we need to tackle them. >> there was, i guess, one turning point where, allegedly, the owner of one bar used a pejorative term against one group, and that was the point that got black lives matter very upset and sent them to, i guess, take it before the human relations commission. but it isn't the only thing, i'm sure, that's happened. >> i think it's a long-term issue, in the way in which race has been a problem in this country, with regard to how you treat people of different colors and different nationalities and how you stereotype folks. and that was part of the comment in terms of a stereotype. and even since the hiv crisis, there's always been this whole demarcation in terms of race, even there. it was all white men at one time. and so i really believe that our country still has a struggle with the issue of race, understanding race, and understanding the whole dynamics because no one assumed that race was an african-american or latino problem. they thought it was all a white problem. so now when you see so many of them trying together, they still have to gel as a community. >> learning curve. all right, we're gonna take a break. inside stories coming your way right after this. "in washington, if you don't have some independence, some backbone, you might as well not even be there." backbone?! pat toomey voted 7 times to defund planned parenthood. and when he didnít get his way, toomey threatened to shut down the federal government. now, toomey refuses to tell us whether he's voting for donald trump. but when he's in other parts of the state, toomey's said he wants to support him. pennsylvania just cant trust pat toomey. priorities usa action is responsible for the content of this advertising. owhat we value, how we treato others. and now they're looking to see what kind of leaders we choose. who we'll entrust our country and their future to. will it be the one respected around the world, or the one who frightens our allies and emboldens our enemies? the one with the deep understanding of the challenges we face, or the one who is unprepared for them? a steady hand? or a loose cannon? common sense and unity, or drama and division? a woman who's spent her life helping children and families, or a man who's spent his life helping himself? our children are looking to us. what example will we set? what kind of country will we be? hillary clinton, because we're stronger together. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. >> "inside story" is presented by temple university. remarkable change isn't easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. explore temple's impact. visit temple.edu/impact. >> time for inside stories of the week, and let's start with val. >> well, we're seeing the casualty of what's happening at the top of the ticket. we're now talking issues that's seeping its way down into races in southeastern pennsylvania for the state house and senate. we see it in tom killion -- state senator tom killion's race -- where the democrat is attacking him solely on trump. but killion has a record to talk about. he supports pension reform and liquor privatization. growing greener ii is a bill he's sponsoring. his opponent doesn't want to talk about that. he wants to talk about trump. and we're going to see whether that's a tactic that works. >> all right. nelson. >> solar and wind get subsidies from the state. and nuclear power is about to close many of their plants because of cheap energy as a result of the gas. the governor's looking at whether nuclear power should also receive subsidies just like the wind and solar get. >> all right. ed. >> monica, that nation's newspapers have spent a lot of time talking about what donald trump may have said or did 10, 15, 20 years ago. what they're ignoring is the fact that the russians are amassing troops and moving nuclear missiles on the borders of lithuania and poland. they are sending their fleet through the baltic. they went through the english channel. all of this is putin rattling the saber hard to some purpose. whoever's president next is going to have to deal with this. >> all right. sharmain. >> monica, we certainly have some big issues to deal with, but we also have some things that we can do in our own communities to continue to help. this year, at the urban affairs coalitions, again, we're going to be helping people at thanksgiving by getting 2,000 people turkey dinners. and we're partnering now with a new group called philly foodworks, and they're going to donate $20, for everyone who sort of checks out their website, to our turkey basket program. so thank you, philly works. >> terrific. that's "inside story." have a great week, everyone. see you next sunday. >> i'm nydia han along with gray hall. coming up next on "action news," workers and commuters brace for the possibility of a septa strike tomorrow night. hillary clinton calls on the fbi for details in the e-mails controversy. there's no death, but a lot of destruction from a new quake in central italy. those stories and much more all next on "action news" at noon. >> garch, -- good afternoon it is sunday october 30th. i'm nydia han. >> good afternoon i'm gray

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