[ music ] >> thank you, tom. [ humming ] we're talking with tony randall, and we have buddy rich, kelly monteith, tommy thompson talking about a new book. you read a lot, don't you? >> yes, i do. >> constantly. you haven't read "serpentine" yet. >> no, no, i haven't. >> good book, you'll enjoy it. >> ah. i'm reading a book by sir anthony blunt. >> sir anthony blunt? >> yes, he's not sir anthony anymore, is he? >> he's not? >> no. >> hmm. >> you don't know what i'm talking about? >> oh, that thing about in, uh, england. >> yeah, it just happened. i was reading a book by him. >> yes, with a scandal. oh, yes. >> the book is about italian art. >> one nice thing about italian scandals, they're always really scandalous. did you ever notice? >> they're really good. they know how to do it. we don't know a thing about it. >> we don't know how to get a the filth in our blood. [ sparse laughter ] >> let's talk about your movie. would you like to talk about that? >> ah, yes. it's nice of you to bring it up. >> well, of course. >> that's surely the sole reason i came here-- >> i know that. >> aside from plugging my record. >> i know that. >> and keeping my face before the public between things. you've gotta keep moving in this business. you gotta let the public know who you are. >> where you're going. >> yes, where you're going, what you're going to do, what you had for dinner, what you're having tomorrow. >> now, you have a movie called-- >> "scavenger hunt, " now that's the big thing. >> is it any good? [ laughter ] >> well, you're honest about it. >> i literally do not know because i have not seen one foot of it. >> yeah. >> and you never know. >> that's the thing about making a motion picture. you can finish the picture, you can wait six months for it to come out, and-- >> and it's terrible. >> well, the actor sometimes has no idea whether it's gonna be any good. >> well, you begin with the script-- >> i know that. of course you begin with-- we all know that. >> you don't always >> no, but in this-- no, they didn't used to, they used to wing 'em. >> well, i know. they'd go out and you'd make up dialogue and they'd write right on the set. >> that's right. >> and they handed the actor the pages and they'd go over and look at it and they'd do it, right? >> they used to do it that way. >> i didn't mean to interrupt you. >> but you begin with a script, then you shoot it. the script may be very good, it may be even great, and you can still make a rotten movie. if anybody goofs up, and there's so many departments all along the way, if the cameraman isn't right, or anything. so, i think this is good. we began with a good script. >> is it a comedy, is it a-- >> that's a comedy. >> yeah, it has a funny-- it has a lot of funny stuff in it, but it has-- it's about a scavenger hunt, and you have to get things in order to win the inheritance of 20 or 50 million dollars, or something like that. and everybody's killing everybody else out of pure greed to get these things, and i'm the only good guy in the picture because i'm not doing it for greed, >> aww. >> but one of the things we had to get is an ostrich. >> on the scavenger hunt? >> yeah. well, talk about turkeys. there is nothing in this world-- >> meaner. >> and uglier, and smellier, and rottener in spirited disposition than an ostrich. they weigh 300 pounds, and to get them into position it take four or five men holding them, and then they begin to flap those big wings and they could kill ya. >> then they kick. >> and these feet are enormous, with huge-- they have three toes, each one has a huge nail, a claw coming out of it, and they go after ya like that, and then they strike like a snake with that long neck. [ laughter ] >> you know, you do a very nice ostrich. [ laughter ] and if you get near them that head comes at ya, and they go for ya and they make that terrible noise. that mouth opens and you can... it's really disgusting. >> you don't care for them, huh? >> no, and that's not the worst thing they do. >> i don't wanna hear the rest of it. i can-- >> they do one thing all the time, more than a horse or cow does. yeah. and we had four little kids, really great kids who played my children, i play motley, my name is motley, and these kids were so bright, and they made up anything good was "motley power", but anything they didn't like they called "os." >> ostrich? >> yeah. [ laughter ] >> okay, i think we got that all right. you crossword puzzle fans i'm sure will be able to figure that out. two letter word, ostrich is the first one. >> yeah, they're hip now days. let's see the film clip. >> well, this is a scene-- i haven't seen any of this, but this is a scene where i have to get a medicine ball, that's one of the items on my list. >> okay, yep. watch this little excerpt from "the scavenger hunt." [ tapping ] >> okay, team. now, we all know what we're looking for, right? >> right! >> i'm going in the gym to try and find a medicine ball. we'll meet back here at the car in ten minutes. let's go. >> hello. >> hello. >> welcome to the gym. >> thank you. my name is motley. >> i'm lars, i'm the instructor here. >> yes, yes, healthy. >> thank you. >> i tell ya, i have a little problem. >> well, that's what we're here for, we take care of problems. >> uh-huh. >> yes, and, uh, you have a problem. how did you get that? we'll take care of your back, we'll straighten you out all the way. you may get something out of this gymnasium. >> what i need is a medicine ball. >> no medicine, we don't deal with medicine here. we deal with just absolute nutrition, food supplements. that's what's wrong with america. we'll make a real man out of you. >> i can't stop! i can't stop! >> no pain, no gain. >> make it stop! i can't. >> atta boy. how do you feel? >> all i want is a medicine ball. >> a medicine ball? >> yeah. >> hey, you're getting the spirit. i guess i underestimated you, motley. here. [ grunting ] [ applause ] that's pretty funny. >> yeah. >> you had, uh-- the gym instructor, of course, is arnold schwarzenegger, he was on the show the other night. >> and he was good. >> he's got a good sense of, uh, fun about himself. >> he ad libbed all those lines. >> yeah, he's a bright guy, i like him. >> well, we stood on the set saying, "what are we gonna do with this, it doesn't seem to work?" and he fixed it. he said, "oh, don't worry, i know what to do. i'll fix it." >> just started talkin' or what? >> he just began talkin', he did the whole thing. we just went along with him. >> looks good. >> yeah. i >> yeah, it's good. >> i'll tell ya a story later about a scavenger hunt that was held some years ago. maybe i've got time to tell it quickly. it's about ex wives. we held it in new york, and a couple of the people are no longer with us, rosalind russell. people had to go out and one of the things was a nude doll. now, most people went to the toy store. >> you're not allowed to buy anything. >> no, they went out and picked it up and they were gonna get a little nude dolly, and they'd take the clothes off of it, or they'd go to a second hand store. so, where i was living in new york at the time, and when i became part of one of the teams, and from the second floor walks this person. >> a regular doll. >> a beautiful young lady, and truman capote was keeping score, and nobody would finally admit what team did this. this young lady descended in front of this entire group wearing zip, but with great style walked down, turned around, walked back up the stairs, and nobody took a beat. and truman capote said, "one nude doll." and that was it, and went right back. and to this day, nobody would admit who did it. we'll be right back. [ music ] >> aren't you going to congratulate me? >> now, what do you want me to congratulate you about? >> for intimidating you. >> intimidating me? >> yes. you haven't dared smoke while i was out here. i noticed that. >> well, you're a guest. [ applause ] >> first time ever. >> you're a guest. >> all right. >> buddy rich, my next guest, will be appearing at shea theater in buffalo, november the 27th, in new york on december the 11th through the 16th. would you welcome, mr. humble, buddy rich? [ applause ] [ music ] well, how are ya? >> terrific, thank you. >> you're lookin' good. >> this guy was out tonight. >> i had my buddy rich injection. >> you hit it outta there. i think i'll buy a lid from ya, man. where you been, travelin' all over the world? >> yeah, we've been all over the place, as usual, doin' one nighters. >> you're one of the few bands outside of basey, i guess, that still travels. woody herman. >> woody. we just closed at the westbury theater in long island. we were there with mina ferguson's band. there were two bands on the stage. >> but there aren't many anymore, are there? >> no, there's woody, maynard, our band, lawrence welk, and a few others. >> it's true, they do go on. >> yeah. >> but a lot of people think, and it probably won't happen, that those days are comin' back again. >> i donan i like the new things that are going on. >> yeah. >> yeah, much better, much more exciting, the audiences are better, the musicians are better i think, and the attitude. >> where do you find all these young musicians? i don't know guys you have in your band, the average is about 21. >> no, about 23-24, somethin' like that. and most of the guys have been with other bands, they come out of berkley school of music in boston, texas, all around. >> yeah. >> bars. >> you're a tough task master, aren't ya? >> no, i'm very easy. >> oh. >> just work. >> i remember one night-- now, you mellowed out a little bit. we both mellowed, you know, as you get a little older. you're supposed to mellow, right? >> no. >> i saw you some years ago. do you remember this? you called out something like 28, whatever the book was, and one of the guys in the band said, "ugh." he wasn't particularly fond of playing 28 again. i guess he'd had it, you know? >> i fired him? >> you fired him right there as he was sitting there. >> right. >> and you hired him back after the next set. >> and he fired me? "i don't wanna play that, " and you said, "you're fired!" i said, "you're right in the middle of a set." >> yeah. well, you can't have that kind of mutiny in the band, you know? there's only one leader. >> that's right. >> right? >> is that so? [ laughter ] see tommy, how he's got him in his power right there, "is that so?" >> ultra smooth. >> did you hang out mainly with that-- we've known each other a long time, 20 some years. but do you hang out mainly with musicians? >> no, not really. i don't do much hanging out, >> when the job is over, you work very hard, you've traveled 400 miles in a day and then played a couple of hours a night, you don't feel like hanging out too much. >> yeah. what really steams you when you're on the road? >> lately, on the road is really horrendous. the attitude of most of the people in hotels and airlines are just-- forget about it. you're paying top dollar, and you're getting served with-- you order a steak, and you get served on a plastic plate, and you have the knife and it cuts right through the plate. it the plastic plate. you know. little packs of salt and pepper, and it gets all over ya. and they think they're doin' the right thing. it's-- you know, with me it's really tough. i get hysterical. don't send a packet of ketchup, send the bottle up, you know. >> oh, you mean those little things? >> yeah, they squirt all over ya and you look like you just cut yourself in half. [ applause ] >> i wanna find the man who thought of wrapping saltines without taking them and just pounding the whole package and pouring it out just as dust. >> yes, it's really bad, it's really bad. and of course, the 55 mile speed limit doesn't help any when you have 400 miles to go, and everybody's doing 70 anyhow. you know, the whole thing is insane. >> yeah, the other day i was out trying to make a big social point here, but i was driving in from the ventura freeway, so i figured i just want to find out what's going on, and i got in the left hand lane-- if you're gonna get in the left hand lane, folks, and drive 55, you are going to be screamed at, from their car at you if you don't get over. >> it's really nuts. >> so, finally, i was up to 65, which was the speed limit a few years ago, and people were still goin' by in the left hand lane, and finally i got the hell over to the right. >> well, we played disneyland a few months ago. we were doin' 70 on the highway, you know, cops passin' by waving. over-- a wave like this, you know, move over. but i find that really tough to take. the bus has to go at 55, we have to drive at 55, you know? and you get to the job and everybody's like busted out, everybody sounds like doc. >> only tonight. >> yeah, what is it, doc? >> what is what? >> besides the stuffing in the turkey, what are you doing? >> he was just reminiscing things. >> i'm gonna have smoked turkey tomorrow, boy. >> i'll come over and smoke it with you. yeah. >> i just can't figure out how to keep it lit. >> smoke one for me. >> you light both ends. that's how you do it, man. smoke with all of 'em. >> you get on one end, i'll get on the other. >> that's gonna be a happy thanksgiving tomorrow in our home, i can tell ya. we'll take a break, we're comin' back. you gonna play somethin' for us tonight? do you feel in the mood? >> sure, i'll play some drums [ music ] i think eddie shaughnessy has lent buddy the drums. whatever. [ applause ] [ music ] >> yeah, yeah, yeah. [ cheering and applause ] and we'll be back in a moment with kelly monteith, tommy thompson, >> the place we were just talkin' about, are you going to or did you just finish that? >> no, we just played a place in albany called j.b.' s and it's just a dynamite place. other bands who may be going to albany, be sure you play that club. >> is it cold up there now? >> no, as a matter of fact, new york weather is beautiful. it was 68 when i left there yesterday. >> oh, that's gorgeous. >> it was really great. >> here's a good friend of ours. he's been on the show many times, very funny guy, and he's gonna be appearing in carbondale, illinois, november the-- december the 10th. not november 10th, that was sometime ago. and he opens at the aladdin hotel in las veg through the 19th. would you welcome kelly monteith? [ applause ] >> thank you. carbondale, huh? we have some people-- i didn't think we'd have anybody from carbondale. i don't know where i'll be there, but i'm gonna be in carbondale. nice to have you all here on thanksgiving. big day tomorrow, huh? it's when all the families, and mom and pop and the kids college kids don't mind comin' home stoned for. [ applause ] see, they're not paranoid because they know none of their relatives are gonna notice, you know? because their relatives are there goin', "look at wally eat! he's like a man possessed. it's his third turkey." [ sparse laughter ] christmas is comin' up, right around the corner, christmas is. actually, you know, that's when television really comes in handy because it parades all this merchandise in front of ya, and it's really kind of nice because it gives you a chance to sit back at your house. i do that, and i kind of assess the products that i'm gonna buy. like this one watch commercial that they always have on. you know, the watch keeps on ticking. you know the ones where they have all the testimonials from all the people. "well, i was out plowin' my field one day, i looked down in the farrow and i found my timex watch i lost a year and a half ago and it was still tickin'." "i was workin' in my garden and i hit somethin' metal with a trowel, and it was a timex watch and it was still tickin'." "i was out fishin' one afternoon, i saw somethin' shiny in the stream and i picked it up and it was a timex watch and it was still tickin'." which leads me to believe they make great watches, but real crappy watch bands. [ applause ] i mean, what the hell's the use of havin' a good watch if the sucker keepll you know. "hey, check out my watch-- my watch! what happened to my watch? i had it this morning when i plowed. what happened." [ sparse laughter ] i like to spend holidays at home, though. it's a treat for me to spend holidays with my family because for years i used to travel by myself and spend a lot of time alone, boy, on christmas and thanksgiving, which you get used to. you know, i guess i'd be classified as a loner. it's not always a word i like to use about myself, though. a loner. that always fits the description you know? every time i ever read about one guy on the loose, he's white, late 20s to early 30s, light brown hair, and a loner. and i'm always just close enough to that artist conception, you know? "oh, that's me, boy!" some civic minded nut will be out there, "there he is." "what'd you shoot him for?" "he was alone, that guy." [ laughter and applause ] then they'd print my middle name, see, because they always do that with criminals. you ever notice that? somethin' about three names that denotes trouble to me, and i don't think i'm too far off base because i look at all of those infamous people we know by three names. guys like james earl ray, lee harvey oswald, jack the ripper. [ laughter ] it's always three names, but on the other hand it seems like the more contribution you make to society, the less names you need to be known by, see? because i look at all those heavy weight people we know by one name. you know, edison, roosevelt, churchill. one name. "hey, who shot lincoln?" "john wilkes booth." [ laughter ] "what'd he look like?" "white, late 20s to early 30s, light brown hair, and a loner." [ laughter ] but it's funny how we honor the heroes that we have. you see, what we do, we'll name like a street or a building or a square after 'em. i never thought that was much of an honor, you know? it might be at the time. you know, they say, "we really like what you did, you're really a hero here, so we're gonna name thit after ya, ya see?" and it's a real nice square at the time, but after a while years go by and pretty soon the neighborhood starts to decay and go downhill, and then the seedy element moves in and shady characters are hangin' around and bums and winos, see? and the next thing you know, people don't even remember your name for what you did, you know, they just associate your name for some god awful part of town. terrible way to be remembered, you know? "hey, how do i get to monteith square?" "monteith square? well, you go down there about-- it's the only people that come out of there alive. go down there about 10, 15 blocks. you'll know you're gettin' close when you start hearin' gunfire. [ laughter ] that's why people don't wanna be heroes today, i guess. because i keep readin' there's a scarcity of contemporary heroes, which is really important to have, you know? i remember in school they would always emphasize the heroes from the past, but the trouble with that was that you never really saw them as human beings. you know, they portrayed them almost as gods, so that when you found o some human failing, you know, it would just be devastating, you'd be crushed, you know? 'cause here's some guy that you idolize 'cause he did this and designed that and built this and sculpted those and painted this and wrote that book and invented that. you think, "my god, this guy was a genius, he was a god, he must've died of overwork." "naw, drank himself to death." "what?" "well, if the booze hadn't of got him, the syphilis would have." [ laughter ] "he had syphilis?" "caught it in prison." [ laughter ] you mean he did time?" "oh, yeah, beat up a blind man real bad one day." "beat up a blind man?" "well, it wouldn't have happened if the man would have just let go of the cup, but he just insisted--" "cup? he was a thief?" "well, he needed money to support his habits." "habit? he was a junkee." "well, now, wouldn't you be if you married your mother?" [ laughter ] "god, he was my hero." "well, he might have been a hero to you, but he was a real ass to his neighbors. they tried to hang him the night before he died." that's what i felt when i found out thomas jefferson had slaves. i couldn't believe that, i thought, "now, wait a second." here's a man that sat down and wrote all men are created equal. how could he possibly have slaves? i still can't understand that. people say, "well, he freed 'em when he died, " but hell, he died at 83. [ laughter ] slaves had to be pretty old. "mr. jefferson just died and said you're all free." that's mighty kind of the masta. i'm 65 year ol' and i've got no job, i got no money, and now i got no hot damn place to live." [ laughter and applause ] of course, now, he wasn't the only one. george washington, also possessed slaves, and he also grew marijuana, which is real interesting. i don't know how many people know that. i read in the paper they found a voucher in mount vernon, and sure enough he gma of course, it's a hemp plant, you know, and they used it to make rope. bet me the slaves didn't know what it was for, you know? "well, judge, we got a good lookin' crop of hemp this year." "yes, sir, masa george. let's go make some fine rope." [ laughter and applause ] thank you. >> very funny. >> that's nice stuff. funny stuff, kelly. we're gonna take a short break, we're comin' right back. [ music ] >> we're back. we're talkin' with y tony randall. we were just talkin' about television in england. you said you were over there and did some shows, and i asked whether it was itv, which is the commercial channel. there's bbc1 and bbc2, right? >> correct, i was on two. >> yeah. >> they have no money. that's the one with no money. that's the one that likes me. >> what kind of a show you do for 'em? >> it was, uh-- well, it was kinda hard to explain. i play myself in it, and it's based on kind of a situational comedy structure, but i play kelly monteith it gives me a chance to do monologues in the little room that i work in, i got my monologues so i can talk to the audience that way. and i've got the television utilized to show-- to illustrate what i'm talkin' about or to expand on it, and i've got sketches. i've got a lot of freedom with the show, so i've moved a lot of different ways. it worked real well. the first one went on last thursday, and i understand the reception was quite good. so i'm really interested to see what's gonna happen. >> england has such a strange sense of humor. we think we're so closely parallel, and we're not very often that they bring over here, some of it is very good and some of it some people just stare at. >> yeah, right. >> it doesn't seem to travel to well sometimes. >> no, i imagine some of the humor that we have would be the same thing, like ethnic humor or maybe like a southern humor or different parts of the country because they'll have comedians from the north and i have absolutely no idea what they're saying. they're talking and i have no idea, like can't understand a word they're sayin'. >> i like the routine on the early americans though especially. it's always true in the paper when they pick one of these people up who's-- i thought about it because tommy thompson's they always describe the fellow as a loner or "he kept to himself a lot." you know what i'm sayin'? >> uh-huh. >> you didn't have many visitors, but he helped me in one day with the groceries." >> it's always those people that live next door to the guy they caught, you know? >> that's right, and they never see anything at all, and then all of a sudden he does the city council in one day with an axe, just like this. >> it snaps in. >> "he was kinda quiet." >> "i saw him walkin' downtown with an m16 and he looks ticked off." >> yeah. "somethin' was botherin' him, >> "morning." [ laughing ] "what's the matter with him?" [ laughing ] >> it's gettin' a little strange out there nowadays, isn't it? >> oh, it sure is. but it is interesting about this historical figures, you know? to find out-- i still can't figure that out. i try and judge a man by his time, you know, because i realize it does shape a person. you know, the time element that you're in, you know, if you're thrust in the future or back in the past, you wouldn't feel comfortable. >> well, things are now coming out. i think it takes a lot of time sometimes. was seeing lucy mercer for many years. you know, there was kind of a love affair, and that comes historically, but at the time you don't think about it. we kind of tend to put our presidents up on a pedestal, or something, and we find out they're just humans. >> i see that with my folks, how time shaped my folks because they went through the depression, see. so, that left a definite mark on people. they still don't throw anything away at the house. my mom says, "don't throw those grapefruit rinds away, i'll make casserole." >> that's right. he can't get used to restaurant prices, i tell ya. i say, "dad, this is my treat, order whatever you want." "okay, i'll have a steak, that looks-- oh, good god almighty. you could buy a house for that in 35. chicken, i'll have somethin' cheap. chicken, my butt i'll have chicken. some tomato soup and some coffee," or whatever. and i still get that way. i think if i was a billionaire i'd still have a glass that used to be a jelly jar some place in my cabinet. and you keep the jelly jars. >> girls couldn't figure it out, "that's nice crystal, what is this?" >> "that's welches, 1920." >> "that's smuckers." [ laughing ] >> you got it. we'll be right back, stay where you are. [ music ] >> we are back. my next guest-- [ applause ] thomas thompson's he has a most impressive background as a journalist and a writer, he was an editor for "life" magazine at one time, author of the bestseller "blood and money, " and his latest book is a fascinating book, it's called "serpentine." we'll talk about it because i finished it the other night and it is some kind of book. would you welcome, please, tommy thompson? thomas? [ music ] reading this book. it is one of those books, it's almost such a cliche to say, "you don't put it down" but kelly was saying when you start to read "blood and money" you get so engrossed in it, you wanna stay and you wanna see what's gonna happen, and about at 3:30 or four in the morning, you really can't function anymore. >> it's been about three years up 'til about three or four o'clock in the morning, the same way. yeah. >> it is really an amazing book. >> you can't improve on what happens in real life. i don't have to make 'em up because they're just out there waiting to be found. >> now, i want to ask you a question. kelly just asked me, he says, or is this fiction?" now, i was reading this and my sister-in-law was reading it, and she says, "is this a real story?" >> did you both buy copies, by the way? >> oh, yes, yes. >> retail? >> no, no, we hustled. this guy on the street came up and threw it out of a '48 pontiac, and we picked it up for three bucks, i think. but she says, "is it fiction?" and i said, "y--" and i said, "no--" now, wait a minute. i says, "no, this is based, this is, uh--" i said, "the names in here are real, but it's not a case that people were aware of they're all familiar with the charles manson's, they're all familiar with the charles starkweather's, and the hillside strangler, but it is true. >> i'm always offered by publishing companies, the opportunity to write the charles manson's and the hillside. two weeks ago the hillside strangler copped a plea one morning, and in the same afternoon his lawyer called my agent and said would i like to write his memoirs. the answer is no, i don't want to do those front page stories because they've been overdone, they've been slain by the media. so i look in the back of the paper, you know, the fillers down at the bottom of t you know what a filler is. when they run out of space, either they'll run the world's biggest watermelon or the world's tallest man, and i saw this little item about this man in the far east who had killed a bunch of tourists, and it turned me on. i don't know why, but it was a little article that said in two paragraphs, "a mesmerizing young man has been arrested in new delhi with his female accomplice, a canadian nurse, on charges of having killed a bunch of tourists." it climaxed the biggest manhunt >> and so it raised a lot of questions in my head. who was this guy? who was his canadian nurse friend? who were the tourists? why did he kill tourists, and how did their lives collide? >> that's the really interesting part, and the way you write this, you start off and then you pick up somebody here. you talk about coincidence and how they all happen to meet all throughout asia. they've sent in asians from thailand and vietnam and hong kong. >> it's all over the world. it happened in los angeles. i don't know why the story never caught on in this country, but i'm glad it didn't my number one requirement, which is to give ya a surprise. you know, there are like 45, 000 books a year in this country, and maybe 100 will get on the bestseller list. the competition is pretty fierce. i was feelin' pretty cocky, but now henry kissinger and erma bombeck have made their debuts, and i'm never gonna knock off them and dr. pritikin and dr. scarsdale. >> when you read about this guy, is his name pronounced, sobhraj? >> charles sobhraj. >> sobhraj, s-o-b-j-- >> it's s-o-b-h-r-a-j. he's in prison now-- >> in new delhi. >> i'm not gonna give-- well, you can't really give the book away. you really have to read the book because it's a fascinating complex kind of a serpentine thing. did they let you talk to him when you went there? >> well, it's very interesting. after "blood and money" was successful, i was looking around for a subject to do my next one on, and i saw this item and i asked my editor at my publishing company, "can i go to new delhi and check this out?" and they said, "sure." they woulda let me dramatize the fort worth my hometown. and so, i flew to new delhi and got off the plane and got into a taxi and i said to the driver, "take me to the jail." and i went to the jail, and you drop a few rupees in a few outstretched hands, which is the asian way. >> yeah, you bring that up constantly throughout the book. >> i was watching them to see-- >> yeah, but no matter what country this takes place, whether it's in the hong kong or thailand or vietnam. >> that's a wonderful word, backshish. >> yeah, you say you dropped a few rupees and almost anything you can get done over there. >> i think that's a worldwide language. the prison and into a courtyard, and here in a very dusty indian courtyard in the middle of a jail. you can't imagine the hell of an indian jail, but try to. here was 40 or 50 police carrying rifles and bayonets, and in the middle was this little man. and the waves parted and i walked up to him, and he struggled to stand up because he was chained at the arms and legs, but he was wearing a pierre cardin suit and and tinted glasses, and there was a little sparkle in his smile, and i learned later it was not due to any good humor because he's a wretched man. but he has at any given moment 70 or 80 carats of sapphires and rubies concealed in his mouth, even in jail. and when he needs a favor done, he would just pull out a little sapphire and hand it to a guard. but he said to me, "hello, mr. thompson." and i said, "hello." you gotta understand, i went there anonymously. nobody knew i was coming. or anything. and that shook me up right away, that he knew my name, and then he said, "i understand that 'blood and money' was number four last week on the times bestseller list, " which it was. and then he said, "how are your two kids?" and i realized right away that i was up against a pro. >> yeah, as the book develops, this character is absolutely-- >> well, he simply knows everything about everybody but the slightest public posture, and he terrified me and he was very seductive and he's a very devilish man, and that was the way he operated. you know, if you were traveling the far east, for example, or traveling anywhere in the world, one of the nice things about travel is to meet somebody, right? that's interesting. >> he would all of a sudden be there, a group of french tourists would be over there, and all of a sudden they would meet this-- at that time his name was, alan gauthier, i believe. >> oh, yeah, he changed his name every hour. >> he would be alan gauthier or alan something this, and he would all of a sudden fall in with these tourists and tell them where the fine restaurants were, and all of a sudden >> he spoke eight or ten languages. >> yeah, vietnamese and he spoke a little spanish, english, french. >> whatever. >> he would fall in with these tourists, and all of a sudden later on a couple of the tourists found out on the countryside sans head, on fire. >> well, for quite a few years, interpol called him a drug and rob man. i didn't know there was a category of crime called drug and rob, but there is. i guess it goes back to the bad samaritan. >> he would pour a little something in the drink-- >> he'd give you a little something, and usually he just knocked ya out and took your passport and your jewels d but later on his life became very complex and a lot of forces began to stir within him, and he had also collected an entourage of people around him. it's not unlike-- it's got a little bonny and clyde, it's got a little manson case, but it's a little more exotic and much more glamorous. and he had a lot of pressures and then he began killing people, and killing people in very hideous ways. >> did you find that ambivalent feeling yourself, that apparently all of these tourists found with him. you knew there was something inherently underneath not right or a little bit evil, but the attraction overcomes that. >> it's kinda like a car wreck. you know, you don't want to watch it but you're compelled to look at it. right. people told me that over and over again, some of the people who escaped from him-- >> especially the women. he treated women shabbily because of his upbringing with his own mother, who was rejected by his own father, and he was shifted back and forth, and country to country, and so forth. they would alternately fall in love with him and despise him, but still the attraction-- >> and nobody got much out of him. i mean, none of the women got access to his most private areas. he was a great tease, as you might say. >> one of the girls described him as a cross-- how are you gonna cast this if they make a movie? because this is very unusual casting because you start when he was a young boy, a child. >> yeah. >> and at the end of this he's not much more than, what, 30? >> thirty-five, thereabouts. it's impossible to cast. they just sold it for the films last week. >> because it has an oriental cast, and yet at the same time not speaking languages, >> alan delone and sabu. >> where's teran bay now that we need him? >> yeah, that's gonna be a very difficult-- >> the fascinating thing about the book, though, and the violence is there but i get over the violence quick. it's the anticipation of terror at the end, the feeling that something terrible is gonna happen. >> well, that's much more-- >> it's a much more solidifying point. i wanna show people that i jump over fast and move on. but what really lured me to the story was fate. i've always been interested in why people are in the wrong place at the wrong time. in a hindu temple in india. >> by coincidence? >> it says simply, "coincidence, if traced far enough back, becomes inevitable, " which means there is no such thing as a random happening, that maybe the fact that i'm sitting here on this sofa tonight, and the forces that brought me here started generations, if not lives, past. it's a strange thing for me to understand being a protestant kid from texas. >> it does become a philosophical point of view. >> well, when you study all the lives of the victims, particularly, and as-- kids as diverse as the little girl from los angeles, the girl from upstate new york, a dutch couple, and they wound their serpentine ways to the far east on various missions. one girl wanted to be a buddhist nun, some kids were just on tour for business. but it seemed like there was an inexorable end to their life script. like they couldn't avoid it, like somebody was waiting for them. the killer didn't know he was going to kill them, and they didn't know they were going to get killed, obviously, until their lives cros >> it's kinda strange when they finally did catch up with him. from all of the things that he apparently committed all over asia, they only nailed him for, what, eight years? >> seven years, but he'd been doing pretty good knocking off one person or two persons at a time, but they finally caught him when he tried to knock off 60 french tourists in a whole swoop. one foul swoop. >> unfortunately, they all fell unconscious in the lobby, the timing was off. >> yeah. >> tommy, thanks for being here. fascinating. thank you, kelly. thank you, buddy. thank you, tony. thank you. goodnight. [ music ] [theme music] hitchcock: good evening, students of the macabre. this evening's lecture has as its text the short story, de mortuis, translated from the latin. this means, about the dead. at the risk of being facetious, i would like to point out that latin is a dead rewarding to know that there are still a few students interested in achieving high marks. if you can't hear me in the back of the room, please raise your hand and adjust the volume control. regrettably, the author wrote only his title in latin and did the story in english. writers are always compromising to commercial success. i shall leave it to your judgment as to whether or not it would have sounded better in latin. oh yes, this class, like gaul, is divided into three parts. my lecture constitutes one part, de mortuis another, and here is [birds chirping] - anybody home? hey, paul? paul fisher, buddy boy! you in here? guess he's not home. - well, i told you. car's not in the garage. - coffee's percolating. he'll probably be back in a minute or two. want to wait? - sure. maybe just enough time for a couple of minutes. - let's have a cup of coffee. - that irene ain't much of a housekeeper is she? - [chuckles] i'll say. wonder where she is. - that's a good question. you know something? he's going to find out about her sometime. somebody's going to tell him. - sure... i wonder what he'll do. - i don't know. he seems even if he did, he probably wouldn't do anything to him. - probably not. where's the sugar? - here. - look. well, it's just a shame he ever married that dame to start out with, you know that. i wonder how come. - well, she comes from a good family and all that. can't say she ain't a dish. nobody told him. him until after he married her. oh, he used to come into the bank into my window a couple of times in fact, but you couldn't say i knew him. you sold him his house, didn't you? - oh, that's right. - well why didn't you tell him? - i don't know. i just didn't. thought about it a couple of times, but you know how it is. - yeah. it's a funny thing. you know a fella's going to get stuck in a business deal, you him, i doubt it would have done much good. - how long they been married? - well he came at the college two years ago, so about a year and a half now. - well, it was last week i saw her. no, it was the week before. anyway, school was out and the prof was down at columbus for the convention. - that was week a benny's to get a bite to eat... - he's batting 3 and 42. can't do any better than that. - yeah, but wait until the series with the giants. they got a pitcher he can't hit. it'll bring him way down. - benny? - yea? - let me have a package of cigarettes, will you? - sure. - and she came in. this truck driver came in right behind her. i have to admit he was a good-looking guy. - let me have a beer, will you? - sure. - uh, benny, let me have a cup of coffee, will you? this town? i'm supposed to pull out here at four o'clock. they haven't even started loading my truck yet. looks like i'm stuck here with nothing to do. - well, there's a ballgame on saturday. only this ain't saturday. - oh, thank you. - what does a guy do in this town? season. - he'll never do it. but i wouldn't want to bet nothing on it. [door closes] - well... - prof. never did find out about it. ... it must've been about four years ago. yea, it was just before marge and me got married. a bunch of us were going on down to fowler's camp on the river, see, and irene had a date with harry bell. but something came up, you know, he couldn't get there and there she was, irene without any date. - oh i'll bet that buggedhe wives and the other gals some. - they never had it so good. they couldn't do enough for us. anyway, it was the last night there. i woke up about three o'clock in the morning, starving. so i eased into the kitchen to see what i could find. - hi! - i'm starved. - hmmm, now let's see. what do we have in here? - well, there's cheese. you want some cheese and milk? - no, i don't think so. - i guess i'll have a sandwich. - oh, maybe i will have a glass of milk. it? - why don't we go outside and have a cigarette? - sure. i don't have any cigarettes. i'd better get some. - i'll wait for you on the porch. - i won't. - well? well? - oh, i never went out. i just went back to bed. well, i got nervous with marge there and everything. - let's get out of here. he'll never show up. for him. - that's an idea. [crashing sound] - prof! hey, prof! you down there? - yes. - hey wally, here he is. he's in the cellar. he's been there all the whole time. hey, we've been waiting for you up there. did you hear us yell? - no. i was busy with this work. i just didn't hear anyone come in, sorry. - hey, prof. what are you doing here? - some water was coming up around the place and filled it up with cement. - water? there can't be any water. this is the best subsoil around here. it's perfect drainage. i looked it up on the map before i sold you the place. - water? well maybe some underground spring opened up. i expect this will stop it though. afraid i should've called in a professional though. i'll bet i'm sore tomorrow. i think i did a nice job though, don't you? - yep, sure is. - spring? never been one in this section before. - well what are you worried about? you sold him the place already, didn't you? - hey prof, we came to take you fishing. roy jackson was out yesterday and he says the fish were clawing at each other trying to get to the hook first. - i better not today. i have some things to do around here. fact, she isn't even here today. she's gone visiting, to evanston. she's catching the 11 o'clock train. - to evanston? - what's the matter with me? i didn't mean evanston. it's franklin. - oh? friends there? - mrs. slater. she used to live next door to her when she was a kid over on sycamore street. - oh yeah, she was telling me about her last night. seems mrs. slater looked after her mother when she was in the hospital one time. - i don't remember anybody named slater. - not next door to irene. - it was a good many years ago. - there was nobody next door named slater. - oh? well maybe this woman married again. maybe it was a different name then. - maybe so. - time to feed the animals. now be getting on. - well you're not going to catch any fish down here. - say prof, what do you got over there? - it's a new experiment of mine. - with rats? - well it's very interesting. see, what i'm trying to do is find out if there is a relation between disposition and nutrition, in particular certain enzyme factors. now this is my control pen here. they're getting a normal diet. all the rats in the experiment are from the same strain, of course. - well, what does irene think about them? don't they bother her? - no, no. well, they did at first, but they don't anymore. - what'd you find out, prof? did you get any results? - yes, rather spectacular in fact. it's very exciting. what i have done is withhold or add some of these different enzymes factors. you'll notice some effect on growth too, of course, but it's more than that. now here you see a whole family, three generations, all seem to be quite fond of each other and like living in a group. now these are very timid, very retiring, non- aggressive. they're frightened by anything, noise, light, sudden movement. - is that a fact? say, they do look scared, don't they? - yes. but this is the interesting cage. they've become so ferocious that each one must be penned separately. even male and female will attack each other instantly. they're completely vicious. - you mean they try to kill each other? - see, the rats in smaller cages get what you might call more vitamins than those in the balanced diet. it's the addition or lack of the enzymes that makes the difference. - you say irene left just before we got here? - mm-hmm. - we came down main street. we didn't see her. - oh, i expect she took a shortcut across the field. she was walking. the car is in the shop. - that's a tough walk with a suitcase. - oh she just had a couple of things in a bag. [phone rings] oh, pardon me, the phone. can't believe it. - i know. i mean he's... - what're we going to do? - i don't know. i hate to turn him in. - but murder? - i know! - hello? - swanson here at the bank. - yes? - sorry to have to bother you, but i'm afraid your account is overdrawn again. cashed a couple of checks yesterday. - i see. well, i'll bring the money right over to cover it. yes, and thank you very much. - prof, when did you find out? - what? find out? - about irene. - we should have warned you about her, prof, before you ever married her. - i know a lot of people think irene hasn't exactly been a perfect wife. and i'm pretty old for her. i'm 51. she's - not all people want the same things. i'm a sort of a dry fellow. i don't open up very easily and irene, well, you'd say she was sort of carefree, wouldn't you? - look prof, you don't have... we know, see. you don't have to pretend anymore. we found out. and i wish we hadn't. puts us in an awful spot. - darn right. ofou bound to find out sooner or later. remember what we said, right here in this room? while we were waiting for him? and you realize all the time he was down there. - what are you talking about? - we never should've let him marry her in the first place. somebody should have told him. i thought about it and i just never did. - well, like i said, you know a fella's going to get stuck in a business deal... - well i never thought a thing like this could happen. - well, of course not. who did? not with him. - hey prof... who was it you found out about anyhow? was it - oh. neither of them. [train] - listen, prof, the thing is, what are we going to do? this puts us in an awful spot, see, what do we do? - i wish we hadn't come here in the first place. - so do i. - well this business oin - yeah, but he's our friend. we... look prof, we like you. we don't want to see anything happen to you. - well i know we don't want to turn you in. but murder's murder. and there's a law. and if we're accessories... - what are you talking about? - look prof, what happens if somebody gets suspicious? what happens if they go down there and start to dig, what then? you can't be sure they won't. you can't be sure. - are you both insane? what is actually believe that i... that irene... that's fantastic. [chuckling] it's marvelous. that's marvelous! - it's not that we blame you. well, we do, but i anybody had good reason you did, i'll say that. - sure, he knows that. we know it. the whole town knows it. but just try and make a jury believe it. - that's right. and even if you did, they'd only say you should have divorced her that's all, instead of... and you should have. that's the trouble. you shouldn't have done a thing like this. - but i didn't i tell you! come on! go down in the cellar! dig - what am i going to do? - that's right, prof. forget about that down there. that's over. the problem is, what are you going to do? and what are we going to do? wally. i can't turn him in. i can't just see a nice guy like him hang for a dame like irene. - neither can i. listen, maybe we weren't accessories after all. we don't know anything. we don't have any proof. - we don't necessarily have to have noticed anything, figured anything out. - yeah, but that's just us. but it don't help the prof any if somebody starts snooping around down in the the cellar when came up the lane, it was empty, wasn't it? - yeah. and anyhow, nobody knows we went down to the cellar. - right. prof, prof! we never went down the cellar. remember, we came in here, we yelled for you and then we cleared out, but we never went down in the cellar. all you have to say is that irene went for a walk and she never came back. - and don't give them none of that phony stuff about her visiting people in franklin. - an heading out of town with soem fellow in a truck. everybody'll believe that. - okay, we better clear out. and remember now, stick to it. we haven't been in the cellar, and you haven't seen us today. - you better go down and clean up that pile of dirt right away. - yoo-hoo! hoo! i'm back! - irene? you back already? i'm down here. - can you believe it? i missed the train after all. - oh? did you come back across the field? so you could drive me over to the junction. - yes, too bad. did you meet anyone coming back? - no. no, not a soul. aren't you finished with that old job yet? - no, i'm going to have to take - alright, just a second ... well, what is it? hitchcock: and so, just like many a hollywood movie star, irene rankin was immortalized in concrete. but prof. rankin was not so fortunate. he remarried. his crime was later discovered and he paid the supreme penalty. i have asked congratulate him on a splendid performance and i'm sure you do too. he played the most ferocious of the rats, a characterization that was quite a departure for him. offstage, he is entirely different as you can see. he's a family man, never seen in the nightclubs. he's just like the fellow who lives next door to you. thank you. and now, a one minute demonstration of salesmanship, i'm sure no one can continue to hold out against a plea like that. it was irresistible. we have another story, but i'm afraid there isn't time enough to present it. we'll have to do it next week. until then, good night. television fans can be so demonstrative and unpredictable. at the time this happened i was under the impression i was being put on a pedestal. my wife's not going to like this. she's always telling me not to leave my ashes on the little story called "kill with kindess." reception seems to be rather bad tonight. is your screen clouding up? mine is. i think we'd better run a test film first. if you have no difficulty in seeing it, we [music] - katherine. katherine, look at this. here, dear, here. come quick. - what is it, dear? - look. there. i do believe it's a cedar waxwing. - dear, fitz, you and your birds. - there he goes. oh, it's very seldom that you see a cedar waxwing in the park. he comes every day. - oh yes, yes, he's a kind man. he likes birds. anybody who likes birds is kind. - he looks about right, don't you think? well, what about him? - oh yes, i think he'd be an excellent choice. - i'll be back soon, dear. - alright. oh, katherine? - oh yes? - katherine, about my butterfly collection. don't you think we could save just... - now we've been all through that before, haven't we, fitz? - it seems such a shame. - i'm sorry. i know what your butterfly collection means to you, but it will have to go like everything else. it wouldn't look right. you understand that, don't you? - yes, katherine. joy to watch you sort your specimens. - it's very delicate work, you know. - now you're going to try to behave yourself, aren't you? and you're not going to say the wrong things? - oh, i won't, i won't katherine. i promise. - that's a dear boy. [birds chirping] - why, you poor man. - me, ma'am? hungry. - i knew it. i just knew it. you know, i was looking out of my window, my house is across the street, and i said to myself, i said katherine oldham, it would be an act of human kindness if you were to feed that poor, poor man. - you mean you want to gimme something to eat? - well, why not? you know i made a pot of stew for supper tonight and there's still plenty left. it wouldn't take me a minute to hot it up. - well that's very kind of you... - oh hush, don't you go thanking me. as i say, it's only an act come along. - yes, ma'am. - oh, one thing. - oh? - i must warn you about fitzhugh. - fitzhugh? - yes, my brother. oh he's very eccentric. he says the wildest things. but you are not to pay any attention to it. you'll remember that, won't you? - oh yes ma'am, i will remember. - then come along and i'll put some hot food into you right away. poor man was straved. oh, this is my brother, fitzhugh. - yes ma'am. they call me jorgy. - delighted, mr. jorgy. won't you go right in, through that door. he's perfect, perfect. - now you entertain our guest while i heat the stew. fitz, possibly you'd like to show him your butterfly collection. - oh good. - yes. jorgy? - i don't know much about butterflies. - ah, you're missing a great thrill. here, let me show you. oh no, here i am over here. in its final and fully developed state, the butterfly is the most perfect of all lepidopterous insects. and oh so beautiful in flight. here, i'm flies so high. but i lured it into the net with tobacco smoke. are you a stranger in these parts, mr. jorgy? - i guess i'm a stranger in most everywhere. i get around a lot. - oh, no home? no family? - no, sir. no, nothing good ever happens to me. i guess i'm jinxed. - ah well, you mustn't despair. remember, fortune is like a glass. the brighter the glitter, the more easily broken. if you have nothing, you've nothing to - i never thought about it that way. - well that's the only way to think of it. oh please, do sit down. take katherine and me for example. we're impoverished. nothing left except this house and my insurance policy. but do we worry? certainly not. oh, katherine, mr. jorgy is all alone in the world. - oh? haven't you anyone, anybody at all who might be asking after you? - no ma'am, i guess ain't much what happens to you, mr. jorgy. don't we, katherine? - i'll dish up the stew. - well mr. jorgy, come right over here and sit down. my sister will have your supper in just a minute. that's right. now, tell me. how do you like our little town? have you been here long? - no sir, not long. - have you made any friends? - no, people ain't very friendly to me. policemen tell me to be as the police are concerned, you've already left town. ah, here's katherine with your supper now. - now you let mr. jorgy be, fitz, while he eats. plenty of time to talk later. - yes, katherine. - now you go right to it, mr. jorgy. there's plenty more in the kitchen. [birds chirping] - well, it does my heart good stomach i always say. [chuckles] where are you going, fitzhugh? - i, i have to tend to something in the basement. - later, fitz. we'll tend to it together. - don't you think we ought to get started? - later, fitzhugh. oh there's one of those pesky moths again. get the insect spray, will you? there's a dear boy. fitz. kill it. - you wanted me to kill it. - oh, now fitz... - yes you did. how could you ask me to do a thing like that? my sister tried to kill me, you know. - oh, fitz the things you say. remember what i told you, mr. jorgy. - oh yes she did. she tried to kill me. the insurance policy i told you about, well she's the get some money. - oh fitz, the stories you make up! - but what i said to her was that there was no need to kill me. all we had to do was to find a substitute for my corpse and then we could both enjoy the insurance money. - now fitz, you stop talking nonsense. stop it! - there's no reason for you to off me. i... - well your plate is empty. let me get you some more. - no ma'am, i don't think i'd better. - now don't be bashful. - ain't that ma'am, but it's getting late. i think i better this house until you've had some coffee. - no coffee, thanks. - some tea then? - no, nothing. - milk? - milk? - some nice warm milk. oh it makes a body feel so relaxed. fitz? fitz, dear? - yes? - i think it would be an act of human kindness if you were to give mr. jorgy a clean suit of clothes. we can't have him fit him. you're about the same size. that blue one maybe? - oh, alright. - and shoes. - what size do you wear, mr. jorgy? - shoes, i don't know. you mean you're going to give me a new suit and shoes too? maybe my luck's changed. - [laughs] fitz, you take mr. jorgy upstairs and try on a suit of clothes and meanwhile, i'll clear everything off here. job in the basement first. shouldn't i, katherine? - oh alright dear, you tend to it. and i'll take mr. jorgy upstairs. - yes, katherine. thank you, katherine. - there's another one of those pesky moths. little monster. i caught it, i got it! you know, fitz doesn't like me to kill them, but i do when he's out of the room. there, a nice looks as though it's going to rain. mr. jorgy, you'll just have to stay the night. - oh no ma'am, i couldn't do that. - oh nonsense. i insist. now you come along upstairs and try on that suit of clothes. this way. - where is it? where did she put - now you try on the coat. here, i'll help you. - it's a beautiful suit. beautiful. - that's a perfect fit. perfect. why, to look at you anyone would say that you were a man of means. now look in the mirror and see for yourself. - you know, it's very kind of me this suit and feed me and all. - nonsense. it's just a human kindness, that's all. a human kindness. now you try on the rest of the things and i'll see you downstairs. - yes ma'am. - there it is.

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