Top former commanders on the best way to beat Islamic State militants in iraq and syria, plus britais ambassadors on nato, russia, iraq, and scotland. Captioned by y the National Captioning Institute www. Ncicap. Org welcome to defense n news. President obobama ououtlined his strategy to relentless he pursue an defeat militants in iraq and syria, going for a longterm counterterrorism strategy to defeat the group. America wilhelp International Forces with intelligence, air power, and other support. Small numbers of special operors, including cia personnel, will take the fight to the enemy. Troops will join 1200 already on the ground to train and advise iraqi forces. Obama also wants to assemble an International Coalition that includes european and arab nations. Congress will be back monday to vote on whether to help the Syrian Rebels. E to discuss what is next david bar no of the center for new american security, on commanded u. S. And coalition trps in afghahanistan, paul eaton, who trained iraqi troops after the 2003 u. S. Invasion, and paul donnelly, who has advised top military commanders including general david petraeus. Thanks for joining us. Does the president have the right strategy to defeat isis . This is a big move for the prpresident. I think he has put together the best possible strategy, given these incredibly different difficult circumstans. It igoing to be a tough fight. I think he has the right pieces in place. I think he is bringing the counterterrorism game to a counterinsurgency proposition. Isis is much bigger than al qaeda better financed, betr equipped. Anyway you count it. They are out to establish a caliphe. They are out to rule. They have an eansionist ground game and desires. All the wonders of erican air power, it will, at be a possible success, and it wl take a lng time. I am ok with the strategy and the big hand approach. What i have not seen is the economic handlto attack these folks and deny them access to funding electronically, and to drive them back into a cashonly economy. I also have not seen he counter ideology campaign plan, whe alexander congressman hamilton was on n the program te other day. We do have to attack t ideology. They are getting young ladies out of austria. They are attracting people from a number of places. Us talk for a second about whether or not iraqi forces can be rebuilt at this point. The guy never really a maliki nuri allow maliki systematically dismantled what was a formidable regional force, the iraqi army that existed in december 2011. Is it possible to put that army back together . A clearly is. We have fix the leadership that almaliki disassembled. We have to get a telescope into iraqi units. This is somethg g i picked up in afghanistan. 10 man teams in the battalion, reporting back to how the leadership is going those are critical. That is what we need to get into the iraqi units right no u. S. Was the first overall commander rebuilding the iraqi army. Significant parts are going to be broken for the longterm. I think the assessment teams have ented a pretty good actor of what is possible. A number of units are still relatively sound. I do not disagree with that. I think it is goining to be harr this time around than it was the first time, if only because of our own actions in the p past. It is not something that maliki took apart, the iraqi army he inheriteted. Essentially, what amounts to a a shiite republican blog republican guard. We have seen that the shia militias are still it is not a particularly effective force. Rebuilding of the iraqi army will play out within the iraqi political context wi be an interesting proposition. One of the reons the u. S. Pushed maliki down the way for a new leader a new road which is less sectarian. On the ground, the number is up to 1700. The president is no longer lling boots on the grod, because boots on the ground have been boots on the ground from the beginning. How many folks are need to execute this campaignp . You are obviously looking at a far bigger number. Where theylk about stand in iraq at the moment. Paul is quite right. We need guys on the ground directing american flyers. That is a a lot of folks. Those guys are boots on the grnd. I do not care what euphemism you attach to it. Those are boots on the ground. They are going to get shot at. They are going to be in harms way. They need to be protected. They need to be supplied. That is one of the things i would be most worried about, the logistical sustainment of any iraqi campaign. They are exposed to risks of being captured and killed. I do think there is going to be a significantly larger effort requir. Some of it will be in jordan, other places, to train n only perhaps the syrian moderate rebels to be going back into syria they are better trained and equipped with u. S. Supporor. I think the training effort within iraq will be significant and may ke more troops, they be several thousand more americans. My colleagues are spot on. I go back to 10 man per battalion. As you put the leadership in place, 10 man u. S. Team prepared to connect to the enablers, and to advise and assist, and to report back i think that is what youill have. A lot of strategy pends on the International Coalition, the particularly the Syrian Rebels. The Syrian Rebels have been a fo siificantly divided by inteal the general and i re at a conference where we decided how divided where we saw how divided they were. To militants are willing pick batattles later is this too little, tolate to make the Syrian Rebels an effective force . That is a really hard question to follow up. When you saw them they have gone downhl since then. There are fewer of them. I am really skeptical about the ability. The president , not that long ago, was deriding ththese guys s doctors and pharmacists. They are still doctorsrs and pharmacists, those who are still alive. Like the syrian cap of this equation is the harder half. The iraqi have is easier. There are so many rebel grou. Their cabilities arere less than they were six months or a year ago. Iraq will be easy by comparison. I am more interested in getting president alassad to a position of do no harm. That might set the stage for a potical denouement for the syrian political problem, anand help the fsa. We have about 10econ left. Assad is lking for the same thing. The iranians are lking for the same thing w we are. Does theree need to be better coordination between the three . Thats absolutely coordinated. Airspace if nothing else. We really apprecie the leaders of 28 nato nations recentntly met in newpo, wales, to map strategy. Nato agreed to deploy a Rapid Reaction force and impose tough perceptions on moscow. We are joined by the washington a polish tvor network, and someone who attended the summit. George, let me start with you. What did the alliance get right and what did it get wrong . Thenfortunately, i think alliance focused on rhetoric and provided very little substance. We will realize years from now that russias war against ukraine is a defining moment of this generation. Years from now, people are going to point to some of the decisions made at the summit. What was one of the poorer decisions, you think . Article fives on and on protecting and reassuring nato allies collective defense. An attack on one an tack on all. In a way, nato has built a red line across its owown borde, but given russia and moscow a free rn on everything beyond it. A gray area. I think this summit was very closely looked at by poles. For obvious reasons. What is the polish view of nato and the alliance and what is going on . The basic understanding is that finally our voice has been heard. It is finally a step in the right direction. But it is only a step. Theant more, because spearhead, the new Rapid Reaction force, wont be that big. It will be about 5000 soldiers in a few countries. And we have 20,000 russian soldiers on the border with ukraine right now, 1000 in ukraine, plus the spearhead will be operational in what, a year, two years . We need something now. It is a step in the right direction, but only one step. Thoughtf the things i was stunning it did get some publicity. Just after president obama spoke in the capital of estonia, where he stressed this idea of article five collective defense, the Russian Forces appear to have crossed the border, grabbed an estonian intelligence officer, and are Still Holding him. The russians claim he was doing intelligence in russia. There are a lot of russian claims we have seen recently. What es this signify on the eve of the conclusion of the nato conference, russia does such a brazen action . By acting defiantly against obamas security guaranteed against estoa, putin is trying to show the United States and nato cannot fulfill military obligations to their allies. The russians are saying, say whatever you want. These are only words. Talking about article five is only words. This is our action. We are not afraid. We keep laughing at you. They grabbed this officer. He is in moscow, facing 20 years in jail. Your department of state said, you need to return him immediately. That is just words. And putin knows it. What does the sustained longterm strategy toward russia have to be . We want one thing. We want a Permanent Base on polish territory. Two brigades, possibly. Because this is the language that vladimir tin understatands. Sees a huge nato presence right across the border, he may undersrstand. Sanctions they may work. They may not work. We dont know that yet. I believe a successful strategy for russia is based on proportional response. You are depending too much on rhetoric, on just words. Our first step should be to end all military sales to russia. He should ramp out economic sancnction we should seriously consider an econic embargo against russia, so that europe stops paying for bullets and artillery shells that are killing ukrainians. The russians respond by saying, there was an agreement that nato was expanded on the guarantee there would not be Permanent Bases. This agreement was broken by the russians themselves. Our foreign minister said openly, they broke it why should we be observing it . Warsaw is mounting a very big modernization effort. Give us a quick tourf the big elements of that. We want our own missile defense. We will be buying either american patriots or missiles from france. We want utility helicopters. We will be buying the next year. 70 utilitylking about helicopters. Attack helicopters. New missiles from our f16s. We are on a shopping spree. Plus, we are exercising like crazy, because we know we need to be ready. In 2016, we will be officially spending over 2 of our gdp on defense. Sir peter is one of britains most experienced diplomats, having served in iran, turkey, and as ambassador to france. Since early 2012, he has been her majestys ambassador to the United States. He attended the recenent nato summit and joins us with his perspective. Thanks for letting me come to your show. The summit was criticized you sea segment for being bigger on rhetoric than it was on deliverables. You were part of the host nation team. What was your sense . Was it as successful a summit as everybody hoped . This was a very substantial summit. Some months earlier, people were saying, what is this nato summit going to do except look at afghanistan . In the event, it had a very substantial agenda, and we think it achieved a significant amount. But start from the beginning. We had 60 heads of state, 70 foreign ministers, 70 defense ministers. The outcomes were not just about having important discussions. Clearaine, we sent a message to president clinton on what is and is not acceptable. That is occupying parts of ukraine and supporting the separatist movement, and the way russia has been is not acceptable. Up a set of sanctions against russia because of what it has been doing in ukraine. European sanctions coming today. We have said there will be a diplomatic settlement. Toare always making clear the russian authorities that there is an offramp. We would like to have a diplomatic solution. We continue to put up the pressure. We did some important things on nato reform. We achieved important agreements on nato defense spending. Were example, we dont think it is fair that america should continue to pay 70 of the b bil of nato. Up toody else must step the plate. Only 4 nato countries are hitting 2 of gdp defense spending target. We have taken that furtrther forward. We have done important things developing the defense capacity of partners outside the alliance. We moved ahead with a defense covenant, which was an agreement from all Member States to come toward an armed forces agreement, whereby we do more to support and show our belief in the military, their families, wounded veterans. Games going on in london which is an extraordinary lebrion of what wounded veterans can do in sport. And is getting world attention. In terms of russia, as this summit was continuing, apparently Russian Forces across the border from where obama made a spepeech, grabbed an estonian intel officer and went back into russian territory. Russians say the situation was the other way around. Russia will be a persistent challenge. What is the longrange approach, given that putin continuously is testingeven right after the president of the United States of the United States lays down an article . It will remain a challenge. Perhaps because of the summit, there are signs the ceasefire is holding. There are signs the Russian Troops in ukraine have been told that. There have been far fewer casualties from the Ukrainian Army than just a week ago. There are some signs of improvement. Let us see from actions whether this is serious or just what we have seen before. We have to keep the pressure up on russia. Hence the new sanctions, the very clear messaging from ads of government, about what is not acceptable. In the longer term, i think we have to keep up that pressure. We have to show there are costs and consequences to russia of this kind of unacceptable illegal behavior. In the mediumterm, i believe we will have an effective strategy to reduce our dependence on russia for oil and gas, supplies for europe. We will have to squeeze them on the availali of finance technology. Spending the availability of capital abroad from Financial Markets is something we are going to deny to a number of russian banks and companies. We are ratcheting up the cost of this behavior. That is an immediate strategy, but also for the longerterm, as is reducing hydrocarbon reserve requirements. The foreign recruiting in the pipeline there are said to be a number of brits, the britishaccented executioner for both of the american journalists that were killed. His is an issue in the u. K. What is the best longterm strategy that all nations have to use to stem the tide of folks doing this sort of thing and potentially importing terrorism . I think there are several strands. As the president w saying, there needs to be a comprehensive strategy for dealing with this. Heart of it is going to have to be pushing back militarily against the brutal behavior of this group it has taken possession of great chunks of iraqi territory and parts of hostages, anden crcrucified christians, and done all sorts of terrible things. Art of it is going to be supporting with humanitarian relief people who are victims of their behavior. Art of it is Political Support for a less sectarian iraqi government. Heart of it is building a coalition with local governments, not least sunni arab governments, which have every interest in pushing back against this travesty of their faith. Part of it is the sort of thing we are doing in the united kingdom, which is to act against wh we call the foreign fighters. We have taken powers to confiscate passports when necessary, keeping out some people who are coming back, where we believe they have got terrorist intent, or are trying to do some other kind of horrible activity that threatens homeland security. Isone question the u. K. Debating its role in syria and in iraq. Could there be a return of u. K. Forces to that theater . I think we are all clear that nobody is putting combat troops on the ground in iraq or syria. My premised are said at the summit and since then that we are in this together. We have to push back, using all the resources at our disposal. The of the options are off table. We are building the coalition at the moment. We are supporting the iraqi government. Lets see what we have to do, to have an Effective International effort . Is scotland votes for independence, will it have an effect on u. K. Defense . We do not know where it is going to go. If scotland is going to vote for independence, there will be significant changes to the united kingdom. Political leaders of all persuasions have been campaigning for the lets Stay Together campaign. The scots will have the say on their own future. The air force Associations Annual air and space conference and Technology Exposition is the services biggest event of the year that brings together top civilian, military, industry, and thought leaders. Markus with a preview is barrett, a retired air force major general. Thanks for a much for joining us. Thanks for having me. What is the theme of this years afa . Tremendous lineup, over 140 organizations we represesented at the floor. We have several top leaders that will be in, including secretary of defense hagel. Jeh johnson will be there. All the air force leadership. Secretary james, chief of sff of the airorce, and the chief Master Sergeant of the air force. Folks will get a chance to talk to not only industry and other organizations, but also with our air force members. Xd you have a themthis year . Every once in a while, these have a particular theme. Anything thematic going on . Have three key events. We have the spouse and family for him that we started last year i will continue this year. The theme is resiliency. How do we assess air force families a and fos like that, that need some help as we go through these challenging times . We have the nato air chiefs in turn. General breedlove and the y