Transcripts For WHYY PBS NewsHour 20141211

Relationship of trust. Building legitimacy in the eyes of our community. Ifill then, as nations meeting in lima work toward a new Global Climate change treaty, perus indigenous populations call for better protection of their lands from environmental exploitation. This demonstration was set up as a kind of counter to the official Climate Change gathering taking place across town. The idea here was to raise the worlds awareness of increasing and increasingly violent encroachment on tribal areas here in peru and elsewhere around the globe. Woodruff plus, dissecting innocence, true crime and the justice system, week after week in the breakout nonfiction podcast serial. Ifill those are some of the stories were covering on tonights pbs newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by lincoln financial committed to helping you take charge of your life and become youre own chief life officer. Supported by the john d. And catherine t. Macarthur foundation. Committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. More information at macfound. Org and with the ongoing support of these institutions and. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Woodruff the clock ticked down today on the life of the 113th congress and on authorizing enough money to keep the federal government operating. The funds run out at midnight, and House Republican leaders pressed for passage of a spending bill worth 1. 1 trillion. This legislation is a compromise. The product of hard fought negotiations between the house and senate with give and take from both sides. But at the end of the day mr. Speaker it reflects conservative priorities, keeps our spending in line, and reins in Regulatory Overreach that has been hampering our economy. Woodruff the g. O. P. Leaders struggled to corral conservatives who wanted to stop president obamas actions on immigration. On the democratic side, Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said she was enormously disappointed that president obama endorsed the bill. She blasted several key provisions, including a rollback of regulations on big banks. This is a moral hazard. Were being asked to vote for a moral hazard, why is this in an appropriations bill . Because it was the price to pay to get an appropriations bill. I was told we couldnt get all these other things that have been described here so beautifully unless we gave wall street this gift. Woodruff Republican Leaders said whatever happens, they mean to avoid a government shutdown, by at least passing a shortterm spending measure. But the federal office of Personnel Management told the newshour its laying contingency plans, just in case. Ifill a powerful storm walloped the west coast today with up to eight inches of rain, knocking out power, disrupting flights and raising fears of landslides. In northern california, the rain flooded streets and overwhelmed storm sewers near sonoma. And, high winds and waves in San Francisco bay forced cancellations of commuter ferries and other mass transit. The storm was bringing blizzard conditions to the Sierra Nevada mountains, but it could also help droughtstricken farmers. Woodruff a top alqaeda leader in yemen blamed president obama today for the deaths of two hostages last weekend. American luke somers and south african Pierre Korkie were shot to death before a u. S. Special forces raid could rescue them. The alqaeda figure said the u. S. Acted recklessly, instead of negotiating. translated this message is for the American People about the killing of hostages in yemen. After our message we gave obama and his government three days to fulfill demands of the mujahideen, with it was an appeal from an american hostage. Obama made the wrong decision which was accounted as a signature of execution of an american citizen. Woodruff the message said alqaeda wanted to exchange luke somers for detainees at guantanamo. Ifill in hong kong, police cleared most of the main pro democracy protest site today, after a nearly twomonth standoff with demonstrators. John sparks of independent Television News reports reporter when 1,000 policemen turned up in Central Hong Kong this morning. Everybody knew that the final clearance was about to begin. For 75 days prodemocracy activists have occupied this site an eight lane highway in the heart of city. But their demonstration was over the authorities were taking it back. A collection of court bailiffs, opened the proceedings. Were enforcing an injunction said this official. You obstacles will now be removed. And men armed with sharp knives and bolt cutters got to work, tearing the protestors barricades apart. The protestors offered little resistance. Just a final rally in a place they called the main stage. Give us universal suffrage they cried but the territorys government and their masters in beijing have refused to negotiate. For protest leaders, it is a painful retreat. Two months ago, hundreds of thousands congregated in the city center. Representing the biggest challenge to Chinese Authority since the protests in tiananmen square. But the authorities have outlasted their youthful, tech savy opponents. And theyve censored their ideas in the rest of china. Hong kong will get its road back, but life is unlikely to return to normal. In a newly politicized city, there are many here who do not like where its going. Woodruff back in this country, a Justice Department report shed new light on rape and Sexual Assault among collegeage women. According to the findings, only about 20 of campus Sexual Assault victims go to police. One in ten victims say they did not think the incident was important enough to tell the authorities. And the rate of Sexual Assault was far higher for nonstudents than for students. The report spanned the years 1995 to 2013. Ifill on wall street, stocks rallied, then retreated some, as the falling price of oil hurt Energy Stocks again. Oil finished below 60 a barrel in new york trading, down 44 from its peak back in june. That limited the Dow Jones Industrial average to a gain of 63 points, closing at 17,596. The nasdaq rose 24 points to close at 4,708. And the s p 500 added 9, to finish at 2,035. Woodruff sliding Oil Prices Also sent the russian ruble to yet another alltime low. Meanwhile, chinas leaders reaffirmed a goal of slower economic expansion in 2015, in a bid for more sustainable growth. The new target is expected to be seven percent. Woodruff still to come on the newshour. A rare public response from the head of the c. I. A. Building trust between police and communities. Perus Indigenous People fight to preserve their land. Why more people are less hopeful about the American Dream. What you need to know about this years flu season. And, whats behind the success of the podcast serial. Ifill the director of the Central Intelligence agency struck back today at a scathing Senate Report on interrogations in the years after 9 11. John brennan took the highly unusual step of calling reporters to c. I. A. Headquarters, in langley, virginia, to make his case there were no easy answers, and whatever your views are on e. I. T. s, our nation and in particular this agency did a lot of things right during this period of time to keep our nation strong and secure. Ifill brennan was Deputy Director when socalled enhanced interrogation techniques, or e. I. T. s, began. He conceded today there were abuses, but he defended the c. I. A. s overall record. In a limited number of cases, Agency Officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent and rightly should be repudiated by all. It is vitally important to recognize, however, that the overwhelming majority of officers involved in the program at c. I. A. Carried out their responsibilities faithfully and in accordance with the legal policy guidance provided. They did what they were asked to do in the service of our nation. Ifill the Senate Intelligence Committee Report detailed a long list of brutal treatment and did not flinch from calling it torture prisoners stripped naked, beaten, deprived of sleep, waterboarded and subjected to hypothermia. Brennan said the committee was divided along partisan lines and did not interview c. I. A. Officers. He also defended the interrogation tactics, saying in some cases it led to or confirmed important information. Detainees who were subjected to e. I. T. s at some point during their confinement provided information that our experts found to be useful and valuable in our counterterrorism efforts. And the cause and effect relationship between the application of those e. I. T. s and the ultimate provision of information is unknown and unknowable. But for someone to say that there was no intelligence of value, of use that came from those detainees once they were subjected to e. S, i think that lacks any foundation at all. Ifill in the specific case of osama bin laden, the senate findings,reinforced in a Running Series of tweets today by Committee Chairman dianne feinstein, said information gleaned from tortured detainees did not help find him. Brennan, again, disagreed. It is our considered view that the detainees who were subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques provided information that was useful and was used in the ultimate operation to go against bin laden. Ifill on another key point, the c. I. A. Director said Agency Officials did not lie to the white house, congress, the public and the media. The record simply does not support the studys inference that the agency repeatedly, systematically, and intentionally misled others on the effectiveness of the program. Ifill brennans statements and a 136page c. I. A. Rebuttal suggest that Senate Investigators cherrypicked evidence to support pre determined conclusions. The c. I. A. Directors statements also appeared to put him at odds with the white house. Officials there would not say if president obama approved of brennans decision to speak out. But spokesman josh earnest did say he has the president s support. John brennan is a dedicated professional who has dedicated his time in Public Service to protecting the United States of america. That makes him a patriot, and it makes him somebody makes him someone who has the full confidence of the president of the United States. Ifill brennan said he ultimately agreed with the president s 2009 decision to ban torture. And, he said the agency now hopes to set aside the controversy over past behavior and look to the future. We take a closer look at brennans defense, and his agencys strained relations with congress and the white house, with wall street journal reporter Siobhan Gorman. She was at todays News Conference. Siobhan, you had the first question. How unusual was it for the c. I. A. Director to even have a News Conference . It was incredibly unusual. I think the last time it happened was in 2004 when c. I. A. Faced sort of a similar situation which was a scathing Senate Intelligence Committee Report about the iraq intelligence failures. But i dont believe that was one was televised. This stands out, certainly, for the live nature of it. Ifill he seemed to straddle the question about effectiveness. Reporters came at him in a couple of different ways on that question, the effectiveness of torture, in the end saying it was unknowable. How did it shake out to you . Well, hes trying to threat thred this really tough needle where he says, well, detainees who underwent what they called these enhanced interrogation techniques, which are things like waterboarding or slamming detainees against walls or putting them in these coffinlike boxes, that after experiencing those techniques, detainees provided information. But he says that doesnt necessarily mean that the techniques actually produced information. The individuals produced the information. So hes sort of trying to shift the discussion to say, well, the detainees were the sources of the information. We cant actually conclude that the techniques led to them providing that information. Ifill but he did concede sometimes these extreme techniques did result in false information. Yeah. I mean, it was interesting. At the very end of his session, he kind of offered a personal assessment, and he said that in his assessment, when these techniques are applied, oftentimes it will lead to false information, and thats not only unhelpful because its false information, but it creates a higher volume of information some true, some false that the intelligence analysts have to try to sift through and figure out whats what. Ifill c. I. A. Director brennan and other c. I. A. Defenders have been pushing back pretty hard on the Senate Report saying that democrats, in particular, on the committee, cherry picked evidence and ignored others and dint interview staffers. Is that part of an overall strategy of pushback . That i think has been the c. I. A. s argument for a while, and thats also byebye the argument of many republicans on the Senate Intelligence committee. I think that, you know, they director brennan repeated again today this notion of not having interviewed c. I. A. Officials and, you know, noted that, that probably would have been a better way to go. And i think ifill pardon me, i have to ask you, what is the what is the Senate Democrats response to that. Why didnt they . Right. What they say is that the Justice Department had an Ongoing Investigation through much of the same time period the senate was doing the investigation, and it didnt want to impede it. What the c. I. A. Says is that there was a sixmonth period after the Justice Department investigations ended and when the Senate Investigation ended, and so they say that they should have interviewed people during that time. Ifill the Intelligence Community is pretty tight in washington and around the world. Has this disagreement poisoned the relationship between the c. I. A. And the senate or the Senate Democrats will at least, or strained relations with the white house . Well, its certainly poisoned the relationship with Senate Democrats. We had mark udall, outgoing senator from colorado, who is on the Senate Intelligence committee, yesterday sort of reupping his call for mr. Brennans resignation. But something very interesting came in after director brennans speech today. It was the statement from senator feinstein. And you had mentioned, i think, the tweets that were going on from her account during the speech, which seemed still pretty critical, and yet she put out a statement this afternoon that suggested that he had persuaded her on not persuaded but kind of that they had reached agreement on a number of point. She seemed particularly happy that director brennan said the c. I. A. Had not concluded that these enhanced interrogation techniques, as they call them, did produce valuable intelligence. And, again, this is the distinction that director brennan is drawing between the individuals and the techniques producing the information. Ifill director brennan also said that the c. I. A. Fell short in its responsibility to punish some of the people who had done these things some years ago. So what is happening now. What has changed . Is the reform under way . Can we just say okay that was then and this is now . Well, he did point to changes they had made in accountability mechanisms, and he did say they should have held some officers accountable. What he didnt say was they were going to hold some of those officers accountable, and its hard to know how many of them are still there. However, a former c. I. A. Official told me yesterday that he would estimate that maybe 30 to 50 of the officials who are cited in the Senate Report are still working there, and the American Civil Liberties union about put out a response today to director brennans speech saying he still needs to hold people accountable. Ifill and finally, siobhan, is the word torture now a term of art in this discussion, where you hear people like director brennan using the term e. I. T. And the senate and the folks in the white house are using the word torture. That has been a point of tension between the c. I. A. And the white house for some time, and this is because president obama has a number of times, certainly, called these techniques torture. And director brennan is in a tough position. I, obviously, dont know what term he would prefer to use. But c. I. A. Directors i dont think director panetta, leon panetta used it, either, and i dont know if director petraeus confronted these issues all that much. But c. I. A. Sort of has legal liability if they start saying that their officers conducted torture. So the director is in a kind of a tough position when it comes to that characterization. And again today, director brennan kind of sidestepped that question. Ifill Siobhan Gorman of the wall street journal, thank you. Thank you. Woodruff protesters continue to take to the streets around the country following the Fatal Police Shootings in ferguson, missouri, and cleveland, as well as the death of eric garner in new york city. These incidents have raised i spoke earlier this week with three people who have thought a lot about this subject. Dean esserman is the chief of police in new haven, connecticut, David Klinger is a professor of criminology and criminal justice at the university of missouri. Hes also a former Los Angeles Police officer. And ronald hampton, a former 23 Year Community Relations Officer in washington, d. C. We welcome you all to the newshour. Chief esserman, let me begin with you. Lets talk first about how Police Officers evaluate a threat. How is there a universal training that officers learn on how to do that . Were trained in similar wa ways, different priorities. But Police Officers are trained to go and to serve and to protect. And sometimes that means using force, and sometimes that means slowing down the tempo and using what we know how to use best, which is a conversation. Woodruff and professor klinger, as someone, as we just said, is a former Police Officer, how do you strike that balance between a time to to be prepared to use force it if necessary, and on the other hand, its a time to calm things down . Well, i think youre always prepared to use force, and thats the key. Is you have to understand that these things can escalate quickly. But as the chief indicated, our best tactic is to create some time and talk to people. The vast majority of the time were going to be able to talk people into jail. The vast majority of time when people are upset we can calm them down, but there are times and places where we cant. And if it doesnt get to that point, the person remains anlitated and a threat emerges, either to an officer or to a civilian, then the police have to move for a forceful action. Unfortunately, sometimes the first moment an officer arrives on scene, thats a moment where theres a threat, and the officer has to take physical force as the first option, essentially. Woodruff ronald hampton, in your experience, how do officers how are you trained to think about that . Well, i think we were trained in in the method that the job of being a Police Officer is to deescalate escalating situations. So we dont really make, i dont think, splitsecond decisions because we are sort of impacted by other kinds of things in terms of training and whatnot. But also our knowledge in terms of working in the communities. I was fortunate to walk a foot beat and work in the community i lived in, so i knew a lot of things about that community. So i didnt i wasnt afraid. So that that played into the factor. I could talk to people. Being able to talk to people, i think, is the key to being able to deescalate situations, and knowing something about the community and the people you the people in the community you work in. You know, i think thats an important point. This isnt really just a conversation about tactics its a conversation about a philosophy, of the type of policing we do. And what weve discovered over the years is that strangers arent the best way to police. In new haven, were committed to community policing. That means that relationship we hope is built long before a crisis. Thats right. In new haven, every Police Officer upon graduation from the academy walkaise beat for a year and starts to build relationships that penetrate that uniform in both directions. So the conversation here just cant be about the tactics we use. It has to be about the relationships we build, relationships of trust, building legitimacy in the eyes of our community. Woodruff and, David Klinger, is that something that is going to be possible, though, in every community . The capacity is going to be different in terms of the geographic region. We cant put people on foot beats everywhere, but the chief is spot on, as is your other guest, is what you try to do is you try to build up legitimacy. You try to build up communication. You try to understand that the work between the police and the community is an ongoing process. Unfortunately, however, sometimes you dont have that opportunity to know the person that youre about to enter into an interaction with. And in that case, what officers should always try to do is build some type of common Human Element between the officer and the individual. Something as simple as a traffic stop to introduce yourself as a Police Officer, explain to the person why they have been stopped and create a dialogue so the person that you stopped understands. Simple things like that can often lead to the deescalation that my colleagues were talking about, and so i agree with the other guests about this. Its also important to understand that sometimes the person youre dealing with you might not know but theres always an opportunity to at least try to build something there. Woodruff theres always that kind of an opportunity . It is, it is. And that is part of the training, to introduce yourself, to tell them what youre stopping them for, to talk about what happened, to sormt of humanize the whole process of a traffic stop, because sometimes your work can create an edge. And what you want to do is be able to survive the contact and the citizen, also. So in handling those kind of situations, you can bring a sort of human approach to doing it, and that is part of the training, and good Police Training is essentially to highlight those kinds of situations and then Police Officers are out there doing it. The uniform and the authority is just not enough. No, its not. We really have to build a relationship in a community. We are not an army and occupation. Were not a Foreign Police force. Its very clear in new haven that we belong to new haven, that we are embraced by new havenners, that we serve new havenners. Woodruff David Klinger, how much harder is it t what the three of you are talking about when it is a crossracial situation . And i want to just throw this question out there are Police Departments diverse enough in this country . And if theyre not, why arent they . Well, in terms of going crossracially, when i was a young Police Officer i got out of the academy in los angeles and i worked the south end, 77th street precinct in South Central los angeles, and i didnt have an interaction with any white citizens for many, many months, other than maybe a couple of merchants every now and then. And what i found sihad some wise training officers who said, dave, what they told you in the academy is correct. We need to figure out a couple of things that are going to be a little bit different but always treat everybody with respect and dignity, unless and until they demonstrate theyre not going to respond to that. The policing should reflect the makeup of the community, but it has to go way beyond just the numbers. It has to be in terms of policymaking position. It has to be involved in leadership. We need to see ourselves in the leadership roles and sitting at the table when these Public Safety quote, unquote decisions are made in terms of what are we going to do in communities . How are we going to police in communities . And more importantly, our Community People involved in the process as we develop strategies for community policing. Woodruff finally, chief esserman, come back to the question of diversity on police forces. Why arent they more diverse in your view . Plawz because Police Departments are not always as welcoming as we hoped they would be. Were the most diverse Police Department in connecticut. Were the most diverse command staff in connecticut. But i still know many people of color. I know many women who feel uncomfortable taking that first step in joining a Police Department. I know people who just do not like the police. What they fear is the color blue. And the skin color of the person in that uniform doesnt change that opinion. But a relationship over time does. So were proud of our diversity. But were also a department that believes in building relationships throughout the community. We want our Police Officers to treat people with dignity and respect, but we want our officers treated with dignity and respect. Woodruff well, we thank you all three. This is a subject, of course, on the mind of many, and its a conversation were going to continue to have. But we thank each one of you. Chief dean esserman, professor David Klinger, ronald hampton. Thank you. Thank you. Ifill International Delegates have gathered for Climate Change talks in lima, peru this week, hoping to build the framework of a plan to cut the worlds heattrapping gas emissions. Secretary of state john kerry arrived there today to help with that new accord. But for many peruvians, the focus is local, as mining and timber operations encroach into once pristine areas inhabited by indigenous tribes. Jeffrey brown is in lima, and has this report, part of his series on culture at risk. Brown there were dancers and drummers, banners and chants, traditional clothing of all kinds. A march of thousands, many of them tribal people, that shut down part of Downtown Lima for several hours. Demanding better protection of their lands and their cultures. They came from near and far, some very far, this group from the ucayali region in eastern peru had traveled for several days, by boat, plane and bus, to get here from their remote homes. translated for us as an indigenous population its important to be here because we want to stop Climate Change. We used to have regular seasons, summer and winter during which we planted our seeds. But now, with the climate changing we can work the land but sometimes we cannot plant seeds, there is no production. This demonstration was set up as a kind of counter to the official Climate Change gathering taking place across town. The idea here was to raise the worlds awareness of increasing and increasingly violent encroachment on tribal areas here in peru and elsewhere around the globe. Throughout the crowd, portraits of one of the martyrs of this movement, edwin chota, a peruvian environmental activist from the Ashaninka Indian tribe whod spent years fighting illegal logging on his communitys lands. In september, chota and three others from the village of saweto were shot and killed near the brazilian border. In the vast amazon basin thats home to about half of perus more than 1,500 indigenous communities, with some 300 thousand people. Chota had spoken of threats he received as he fought to gain official title to his lands and keep loggers at bay. translated it is a risk of life or death for us because they are loggers, they have arms, they have everything and they are never going to Pay Attention to us. So we need the support of government institutions to protect the region at the border. Brown chotas remains were found by a river near his home. Two loggers have been charged with his murder. We all accounts illegal logging, mining, and Drug Trafficking have been on the rise in this area. The world bank. In lima this week, the vice culture minister who overseas indigenous relations, said the government is working to resolve Land Ownership disputes but that administrations past and present have struggled to ensure legal rights and safety in these distant communities. translated these are remote areas with very little government presence because these are remote areas with very little government presence because of geographical barriers. For example, from the capital of pucallpa region to the community of saweto it takes six to eight days by boat. That is why the most important issue is to assure the governments presence, not only in terms of a military or Police Presence but also in what a government should provide to its indigenous populations health, education, social services, and security. Brown encroachment deep into amazon forests may also be behind scenes like this, as previously isolated or un contacted tribes come into the open. Last year, more than 100 members of the maschopiro tribe appeared at a river in southeast peru. Anthropologist Beatriz Huertas studies groups like this whove chosen to live apart from civilization. She thinks she knows why more are now making contact. I think that first of all its owed to the great pressures on their lands and natural resources, and that those are forcing these isolated peoples to alter their ways and are leading to their displacement. Brown there are more such tribes than you might think. The Advocacy Group Survival International estimates there are 15 in peru alone, and at least 100 around the globe. The highest concentration is here in the amazon. Citing the threat of contagious disease and other problems that have decimated previously uncontacted tribes, Beatriz Huertas says the government needs to take immediate action. To protect them its necessary to officially recognize their lands and to establish a series of protection mechanisms to guarantee their lives, their health and the right of these populations to decide for themselves what lives they want to live. J. B. i asked vice minister balbuena the overarching question, how peru can foster investment and growth, while also protecting Vulnerable People and cultures. I think we always feel we need to do more. I think the demands of the Indigenous Peoples require us to act faster. And we cant advance a Peaceful Society if we dont find a balancing point between growth on the one hand and respect and protection of rights on the other. Brown achieving a balance has also, of course, been on the minds of attendees at the Climate Change summit this week in lima. After years of setbacks and sidesteps. The goal here is for nations to commit, or at least commit to committing to specific domestic emissions cuts. The grand hope, a new global treaty to be signed at next years meeting in paris. The effort got a boost last month with an important agreement between china and the u. S. , the Worlds Largest economies and polluters, to limit their Greenhouse Gas emissions over the next two decades. In pavilions open to the public, peruvians of all ages took in exhibitions that explained the tangible effects of Climate Change. There, Conference Attendee chris field told me he felt encouraged by what hed heard so far at the meetings, but that huge challenges remained and that, the big challenge is ambition of mitigation, how much we decrease the emissions of heat trapping gases. Ambition of adaption, how much we invest in helping people cope with the Climate Changes that cant be avoided, and how tightly those two things she be connected. Brown getting individual countries to actually make commitments. Well, what you find is that, theres kind of constitutionally a difference between the perspective that the developed countries take, which is really focused on mitigation aspects, and the developing ones who want to see much more of a inter linkage between investments in decreasing amounts of heat trapping gases and increases in helping people cope. Brown case in point, of course, is the host country itself which faces many long term environmental threats and as tribal demonstrators shouted in the streets, immediate, urgent ones that demand answers and actions. Im jeffrey brown, reporting from lima for the pbs newshour. Woodruff by many measures, the u. S. Economy seems to have picked up steam this year. And the most recent jobs report was the best month since january 2012. But Many Americans are still doubtful about Economic Opportunity and the ability to move up the ladder. In fact, a new poll by the New York Times found the public is more pessimistic than it was after the financial crisis. Just 64 of those surveyed said they still believed it was possible to become wealthy if they started out poor. A pronounced drop from 2009 and the lowest level in two decades. The poll also sampled opinions with some surprising answers on a range of economic issues. Andrew ross sorkin of the New York Times joins us now. Welcome back to the newshour. You know, weve been seeing, i guess, coming off the midterm elections, that americans dont feel good about the economy, despite the statistics that say otherwise. But this poll that the time has done suggests a much deeper, longterm kind of pessimism. How do you explain it . Well, you know, we wanted to try to look at this concept of the American Dream, this concept of mobility of starting poor and really becoming rich. We also asked people what they thought rich meant, and i would tell you we thought some of those answers were quite surprising. You dont need to be a millionaire in this country to be considered rich. About 25 , 26 of the respondents said if you can make 100,000 or 200,000, that was very wealthy, in this country. But we wanted to look at that mobility issue, and so many people repeatedly said they didnt think that mobility existed in the same way that they thought it might have existed before. And, frankly, what was most surprising about it was that people thought that they had a better shot, even three years ago after the financial crise, and i think that its really a demonstration of the tale of two countries, if you will, when it comes to the economy weve seen over the past years, which really goes to this larger issue of inequality. Woodruff well, in fact, one of the questions that to me stood out was you asked people whether they think the u. S. Economic system is fair in other words, that all americans have an equal opportunity to succeed or basically unfair, that not everybody has an equal opportunity. What did you find there . Well, a slim majority, 52 thought it was fair. So we live, again, in a country where half the country thinks its fair, half the country doesnt. The most interesting and perhaps telling piece of that, though, is we also looked at what your own income was when you answered that question. And if you were considered i dont even were even necessarily rich, but the more money that you earned in any given year, the more likely you were, as you might imagine, to think that it was fair. One note on the American Dream, though. There are two you know, we always talk about this idea of the American Dream. There might actually be two American Dreams. Theres the Mark Zuckerberg American Dream that anyone can start or horr, aio alger you can start in your garage and shoot moon. And i got the sense from the interviews we did that, that American Dream is still very much alive and well, that thats possible. But whats less possible is this other American Dream which was if you worked hard and you got an education, that youre going to get a jock, that youre going to get a house, you will get married and two kids, the leave it to beaver American Dream and i think that is the American Dream people feel today is so challenged. Woodruff and there were so many. That was interesting. And at the other end of the spruct rum, i was struck that you asked people whether they think it was a problem that theres too much regulation by government slowing down business or not enough. And it looks like, as we see here, they worry about overregulation. That also was very surprising, given this issue that people so many people in the country thought it was unfair, at the same time, they are worried about overregulation. They are worried about the economy, and they want the economy i think just from our interviews so desperately to grow and to the extent that theyre worried that regulation could be holding that back, which is surprising because on the flip side, theres a lot of people who say too little regulation is what has created this inequality in the country. Having said all of that, ill tell you we did an interview today with paul singer, the investor, Large Hedge Fund investor, and he made a persuasive argument that so much of this is not just the politics in washington but what has happened at the Federal Reserve, which is to say with all these low interest rates, the great beneficiaries have been those who own assets. If they own a home or you already own stocks in the stock market, you have benefitted. If you have not had that opportunity, its it has exacerbated the schism between these groups. Woodruff injecting the Federal Reserve in there. Finally, andrew ross sorkin, you were at this conference today, you talk to Smart Business people all the time. Are they seeing anything out there thats going to change this trend, that can give people hope, that wages are going to grow, opportunity is going to grow . I will tell you, actually, this was a very helpful group, perhaps much more surprisingly so than where we were with the poll. And the issue came back over and over again to energy in this country. And weve seen Oil Prices Drop in this country, and that is the equivalent almost of a tax savings for americans of all stripes, and that money is going to go back into peoples pocket and hopefully ends up getting spent in a meaningful way. Everybody we spoke to today thinks that oil prices are going to continue to go lower. That can create all sorts of other geopolitical issues and risks for countries like russia and venezuela and the meef the e east and elsewhere but at least here people were very optimistic. Woodruff a lot to pick over here. Andrew ross sorkin we thank you. Thank you. Ifill flu season has arrived, and doctors are warning it could be more severe than they thought. Thats partially because a strain of this years most common virus is not responding to this years vaccine. Which could result in more hospitalizations and deaths. So far, the flu is only widespread in half a dozen states, but its picking up. L. J. Tan is with the immunization action coalition. Hes a former member of the Governments National vaccine advisory committee. Thank you for joining us. So help me with this. Is the vaccine less effective or is the flu more virulent this year . Thank you very much for this opportunity. The vaccine actually is leseffective, and i think its important to just kind of keep in mind that when we talk about influenza, the only thing predictable about influenza is its unpredictablability. This is what we do know now. We know when there is an influenza season dominated by h3, or hthree n 2, those tend to be more severe in terms of hospitalization, in terms of morbit biddity. We know with the flu vaccine, there are three to four strains that protect us against untherensa, and one is the h3n2 strain. With the Upcoming Season we are getting a predominance of h3n2. That means we might have a more severe season. Not only that, were also seeing that the h3n2 that were seeing is not the strain thats in the vaccine. So in other words, the strain has drifted. So about 58 of what is circulating right now is not matching whats in the vaccine. So you have the h3, you have the drift, and so, therefore, the predictions for the federal government is that it could be a little bit of a rocky ride coming down the pike. Ifill heres the question everyone is asking right now, including me. I had a flu shot this year. Was that a waste of time . No, not at all. Because, remember, the flu vaccine contains three or four vaccine strains, and so while the h3 may have drifted and we are only getting maybe about half protection, remember, theres stilling the other two or three strains that are in the vaccine that youll still be protected against. Absolutely, flu vaccine remains the best way to prevent yourself from getting flu. That being said, i think we have to also keep in mind because we are predicting a slightly more severe flu season and because we do have this drifted strain, for people who have high risks of complications from influenza, they need to go see their physicians if they think theyre coming down with flu symptoms because there are treatment options, what we call antivirals. Ifill lets stop there for a moment. Antiviral. What is that . How do we commonly recognize that . With the flu vaccine were preventing flu, and the antiviral, as we know unfluenza is causeed by a virus, the antivirals prevent the virus from reproducing itself when theyre inside your body. With people who have high risk from flu, if we can get them treatment, we can probably amellorrate the symptoms a little bit so they dont get as sick, they dont end up going to the hospital and it may even prevent death so i think that is a reason we want to make sure people seek treatment. Ifill when you say high risk, you mean very old, very young, or everybody . Obviously, i think its good for everybody, if youre coming down with flu symptoms to go see your doctor, but i think in particular the high risk, the very young, the very old, people with asthma, pregnant women in particular, you know, people with lung disease, people with cardiovascular disease. Those are the groups we really want them to be paying attention and say i have flu symptoms. I should be going in. Ifill l. J. Tan of the ammunization action coalition, thanks. Thank you very much. Woodruff finally tonight, the podcast rises again. Business is booming as technology has made it easier to listen, and one program in particular has turned into an unexpected phenomenon in recent weeks. Hari sreenivasan gets the low down on the big surge in downloads. For the past year i have been spending time trying to figure out where a High School Kid was after School Every Day in 1999. Sreenivasan thats just part of the hook of a weekly podcast called serial thats riveted millions with its exploration of a true murder case and a felons potential innocence. This is serial podcast , a story told week by week. Im sarah koenig. Sreenivasan first released in october, serial is a spin off of the Public Radio Program this american life. Each week, the programs investigation of the case seems to unfold along with the viewer. The focus the 1999 conviction of a high school senior, anan syed, who was charged with murder of his exgirlfriend, hae min lee. Serial host and creator sarah koenig, takes listeners through an extensive reexamination of the alibis, testimony, work of the defense attorney done back then asking whether syed really was guilty. What grabbed me about this story is that a friend of the family came to me and said, we believe this guy is innocent. There are holes in this case. Can you take a look . Sreenivasan its a huge hit in the world of podcasting, garnering five million downloads on itunes, far more than any other podcast in history. But the idea of a serial is as old as Charles Dickens who experienced wild success with the pickwick papers in the mid 1800s. It is also often the most sreenivasan the notion of podcasting stories has gained steam in recent years with popular ones such as this american life, which has about one million downloads a weekand planet money. Lesswellknown ones draw smaller audiences but still have substantial followings. In fact, last year, apple reported that subscriptions of podcasts through itunes reached one billion. Raw voice, which tracks 20,000 shows, said the number of unique montly podcast listeners has tripled to 75 million from 25 million just five years ago. Weve only scratched the surface of the obsession some have with serial. Its inspired fan clubs, academic and legal inquiries, blogs and, yes, more podcasts about the podcast. David haglund is a Senior Editor at slate who edits its culture blog and is a regular panelist on slates podcast about serial. So now we are having a tv conversation with a man who has a podcast about a podcast. So why is there this fascination with just one story . Well, the story itself is gripping, obviously. You know, any time a murder goes not unsolved, but raises questions about who actually did it, you know, people get interested. You get interested right away. The fact that it was a young woman, supposedly killed by an exboyfriend. I mean, there are sensational details that grip you. But then, on top of that, podcasting is a very intimate form, and the producers of serial and its hosts, sarah kanig are masters tat. And when you listen to them you feel like youre listening to a friend talk to you in great detail about the case, and thats just gripping. That brings it to you in a way a tv show or book might now. Sreenivasan when you said intimacy, you made me think of the fact that a lot of us are consuming odd ye here, maybe not even in the big room, or perhaps the car, which is also a semiintimate space. Youre by yourself. Does that play into why podcasting seems to be making a little bit of a comeback . It definitely does. For me, i listen on my commute into manhattan on the subway. I have my headfoandz in and i see other people with their headphones in, and with serial, given its popularity, im sure some of them are listening to the same thing i am, but were each having our own solitary experience and communing with the story. Sreenivasan podcasting has been around for quite some time. What is it that has recently made it more popular . Apple said something about, what, a billion downloads of podcasts . Well, its getting easier and easier to download them. There are more apps. Just about everybody has a smartphone now. So you can get a podcast easily. Its becoming easier and easier to listen to podcasts in your car, and i think thats the next big wave. Not only are podcasts growing in popularity now but theres a huge surge in the near future, i would say. Sreenivasan so theyre replacing commercial radio as we know it in the car, especially for the people commuting every morning or every evening. For a lot of people. I wouldnt want to overstate it yet. More people listen to terrestrial programs. Sreenivasan what podcasts are more successful than others if you had to look across the spectrum . Lately, podcasts like serial, intensely produced story podcasts are becoming more and more popular. Prior to, that comedy podcasts were huge. And i think the reason they hit first is because podcasting is a very loose form. It doesnt have to abide by time limits in the way that most radio shows do. And so you can kind of let yourself go. And a lot of panel shows are very popular as well for similar reasons. You can talk and talk, you know, as far as the conversation takes you, and then stop. And because it feels so intimate, the people who are listening feel like theyre part of the conversation. Sreenivasan speaking of the part of the conversation, especially around serial, there is lots and loss of conversations in different online forums, conspiracy theories galore, everybody has a theor bewho did it . Was there misconduct by this person or that person . Why do we get so into this narrative, almost like an interactive fashion . I think nowadays when you can go online and go to a place like reddit, for instance, and commune with other people who are discussing the case, you start to feel as though youll get to the bottom of it. And a lot of documents related to the case are also Available Online so you can actually pore over the very things that the producers themselves are looking at not all of them but enough of them to make you think maybe if i look some more ill finally find the clue that theyve missed. Sreenivasan is this leading to people discovering other podcasts . I think it is. I was home for thanksgiving recently, and my younger brother told me he had just listened to a podcast for the first time, and, of course, it was serial. And now that hes listened to that worng maybe hell download another one and get into the habit. I think thats happening for a lot of people. Sreenivasan david haglund, thank you. Woodruff thats a cue if i ever heard one to alert you to the newshours own podcasts. You can listen to the full program, or download segments like shields and brooks. Simply to to itunes and subscribe. Ifill again, the major developments of the day. C. I. A. Director john brennan defended his agency against claims of torture. But he also said the ultimate value of the tactics used on terror suspects is unknowable. And a midnight deadline neared for avoiding another government shutdown. House Republican Leaders, and president obama, worked to overcome opposition to a 1. 1 trillion spending bill. Woodruff on the newshour online, we continue our 12 days of giftgiving. Yesterday we gave you a special holiday recipe, and today, weve prepared your very own newshour voicemail that you can download onto your phone. Find that gift, and all the others, on our homepage. All that and more is on our web site, pbs. Org newshour. Ifill and thats the newshour for tonight. On friday, we explore drinking on college campuses, and its link to sexual assualts, injuries and deaths. Im gwen ifill. Woodruff and im judy woodruff. Well see you online, and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks. For all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by moving our economy for 160 years. Bnsf, the engine that connects us. Lincoln financial committed to helping you take charge of your life and become youre own chief life officer. And with the ongoing support of these institutions this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Captioning sponsored by Macneil Lehrer productions captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org this is nightly Business Report with Tyler Mathisen and susie gharib. Funded in part by this is nightly Business Report with tyleasa susieh nd t thesteonce plus where jim creelw portfolimshei share their investment strategies, stock picks and market insights. You can learn more at thestreet. Com nbr. Shop until you drop. Americans spent like crazy last month thanks to fuel prices and uo consumers hold the key to Economic Growth . Oil prices to 60 a barrel and those falling prices arent going unnoticed by some of the biggest names in the world of investing and government