Transcripts For WHYY PBS NewsHour 20140826

College, and now ive got a 25 year obligation. Ifill those are just some of the stories were covering on tonights pbs newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by at bae systems, our pride and dedication show in everything we do; from Electronics Systems to intelligence analysis and cyber operations; from combat vehicles and weapons to the maintenance and modernization of ships, aircraft, and critical infrastructure. Knowing our work makes a difference inspires us everyday. Thats bae systems. Thats inspired work. Ive been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. The ones getting involved, staying engaged. They are not afraid to question the path theyre on. Because the one question they never want to ask is, how did i end up here . I started schwab with those people. People who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. And the william and flora hewlett foundation, helping people build immeasurably better lives. And with the ongoing support of these institutions and. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Ifill the leaders of russia and ukraine came face to face today. They agreed to have their Border Guards consult, but otherwise there was little sign of progress. The meeting unfolded as kiev claimed new proof that Russian Troops are inside ukraine. Ifill it was the First Encounter between russian president Vladimir Putin and ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko since june. They joined other european leaders at a summit in belarus. translated today in minsk, without any doubt, the fate of europe and the fate of the world is being decided. We should together find the only correct solution upon which nothing less than peace on the continent depends. Ifill poroshenko called for imposing stronger controls on the border with russia, and for cutting off arms supplies to prorussian rebels. On the russian side, president putin said the crisis cannot be resolved without peaceful dialogue. translated id like to stress that we are ready to discuss any variants of our cooperation based on consideration for each others interests. We are ready to Exchange Opinions on the current acute crisis in ukraine which im sure cannot be solved by further escalation of military actions, ifill the oneonone meeting of putin and poroshenko finally took place late at night, hosted by the president of belarus. translated talks were not easy, but the dialogue was substantive and extremely frank. It is already valuable and important that this dialogue took place. Ifill but military action only intensified in southeastern ukraine. It was the second day of fighting around novoazovsk, which lies close to the major port of mariupol, and on the same road that leads to the russianannexed crimea peninsula. Ukraine also charged that a russian helicopter attacked a border post yesterday, killing four guards. And kiev released sound and video of what it said were 10 captured russian soldiers. Several complained about their governments actions. translated stop sending the men here, stop it, it shouldnt be happening. Why is this being done, its not our war . Its not our war and if we werent here then none of this would be happening. They would have sorted out their state and their own problems by themselves. Ifill moscow said the soldiers accidentally strayed across the border. Ifill the Obama Administration would not confirm reports today that us planes are conducting surveillance flights over syria. They could set the stage for air strikes on Islamic State militants there. The pentagons main spokesman, rear admiral john kirby, declined to say directly if the flights are under way. He did acknowledge theres a lot to learn about the group. We recognize that their development, their growth, the increase in their capabilities, it hasnt happened overnight, and it has happened regionally, that they operate pretty much freely between iraq and syria. Do we have perfect information about them and their capabilities whether its on the syrian side or the iraqi side o the border, no, we dont. Ifill president obama made no mention of surveillance flights in his speech today, but he cautioned that rooting out the Islamic State group will not be easy. He also vowed the killers of journalist james foley will be brought to justice. He said, america does not forget. Theres also word the persian gulf state of qatar is working to secure the release of four more american hostages in syria. The Reuters News Service reported that development today, citing an unnamed source in the gulf. Qatar helped free american journalist Peter Theo Curtis on sunday. Hed been a hostage in syria for two years. In afghanistan, president ial candidate Abdullah Abdullah threatened to pull out of a u. N. Supervised audit of the disputed runoff election. His camp said none of the fraudulent votes are being thrown out. Abdullah led in the initial voting, but former finance minister ashraf ghani finished first in the runoff. The scandal at the department of Veterans Affairs brought a new president ial pledge today. The agency has faced disclosures of lengthy wait times for health care, and of falsified records. President obama defended his response to the scandal. But, at the American Legion convention, in charlotte, north carolina, he said theres much more to do. We are very clear about the problems that are still there, and those problems require us to regain the trust of our veterans and live up to our vision of a v. A. That is more effective and more efficient and that truly puts veterans first, and i will not be satisfied until that happens. Ifill the president also announced steps to improve access to Mental Health care for activeduty troops and veterans. Separately, v. A. Officials said an investigation found no proof that delays in care at its phoenix hospital caused any deaths. The World Health Organization is now officially targeting electronic cigarettes. Close at 4,570. And the sandp 500 added two points, to finish above 2 for the first time. Still to come on the newshour hamas and israel reach a ceasefire deal; why burger king and other companies are relocating outside the u. S; the high cost of college means more students with substantial debt; Margaret Warner reports on the prospects for political reconciliation among iraqs sunnis, shiites and kurds; and, an arizona ranchers take on the border crisis. Ifill in the middle east the bloody battle between israel and hamas which took thousands of lives this summer appears to be ending. A new ceasefire was announced this afternoon. Ifill celebratory gunfire rang out in gaza city, where people poured into the streets on news that seven weeks of war might finally be over. The formal announcement came from egypt, which mediated talks, on and off, for weeks. In its essentials, the statement said israel and hamas accepted what they called an openended truce. And israel agreed to open more border crossings, allowing humanitarian aid and Construction Materials into gaza. Palestinian Authority President mahmoud abbas, who lost control of gaza to hamas in 2007, is expected to take over administering gazas borders. translated we hope that this will fulfill the demands and needs of our people in gaza and provide all their food and medical requirements and to begin the rebuilding of all that had been destroyed. Ifill if the ceasefire holds, new talks on other issues would begin in a month. Those issues could range from hamas demands to rebuild gazas bombedout airport and construct a seaport, to israels demand that hamas disarm. The terms of the cease fire deal contained no major concession by the israelis. But hamas said theres no doubt who won this latest war. We are here today, after achieving an agreement between the two sides, to announce the victory of resistance. We are here today to announce the victory of gaza. Ifill on the israeli side, a spokesman for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu painted the outcome differently. Israel has accepted the egyptian ceasefire proposal, we hope that this time the cease fire will stick, and i think now that as the dust will begin to clear, many people will be asking, why is it that today hamas accepted the very same egyptian framework that it rejected a month ago, ultimately so much bloodshed could have been avoided. Ifill the ceasefire followed another night of israeli air strikes on highrise buildings in gaza. They leveled a 15story apartment and Office Complex and severely damaged another. By day, palestinians viewed the destruction that left 25 people wounded. The buildings had largely been evacuated before the bombings, after israeli warnings. The final hours of fighting also saw more rockets hit southern israel. One struck a home in ashkelon, injuring a dozen people. And, a mortar strike killed one israeli. In washington, the state department cautiously welcomed the prospect of an end to the killing. Spokeswoman jen psaki. We view this as an opportunity, not a certainty. Todays agreement comes after many hours and days of negotiations and discussions, but, certainly, theres a long road ahead and were aware of that, and were going into this eyes wide open. Ifill gazan Officials Say more than 2,100 palestinians died during the conflict, with half a million displaced. On the israeli side, 69 were killed, all but five of them soldiers. Ifill for more on where things go from here, im joined by dennis ross, a longtime u. S. Diplomat and middle east envoy, who served in the george h. W. Bush, clinton and Obama Administrations. Hes now a counselor at the Washington Institute for near east policy. And shibley telhami, the anwar sadat professor of peace and development at the university of maryland, senior fellow at the brookings institution, and author of the book the world through arab eyes. Gentlemen, welcome back to the newshour. Pleasure. Ifill so we have talked about this before. Dennis ross, youve certainly been on the other side of the negotiating table before. Does this cease fire seem real to you . It does seem real to me because i think both sides really want this to be over. Neither side knew, at this point, that there was much more that could be gained and they each saw the price they were paying was one that was going to continue to go up. We can look at it as a price not being equal to the two sides but how does each side evaluate those costs . I think for the israelis, they had destroyed the tunnels. If they band to go in and stop the mortars, they would have to go in on the ground again and take over gaza, which was too high a price to pay. They achieved what they were going to achieve militarily. For hamas, if you look at the rockets they had left, if they kept firing, they would deplete the arsenal and the price in gaza was going up. So each was looking for a way out and this gives them a chance to sustain something. Ifill shibley telhami, you married iyou you heard in the he didnt understand why hamas didnt take the deal. The israelis got more out of it in some ways but obviously the immediate opening of the passages, the crossings providing relief is something to get out of it, but they didnt get everything they were asking for, especially not the ports. But i want to go back to the question you asked will the cease fire hold. I agree with dennis that the incentives for both of them to keep it and respect it is very high. They dont have much incentive to break it. They have very little to achieve in the short term. But heres the thing, i believe from the outset neither side wanted the escalation and they ended up with an escalation. It was very volatile. There was a lot of negotiations at stake coming up. Politically, there are some gains and losses. The Prime Minister started off the 82 approval rating, the latest poll is 38 approval rating. Theres a political problem for each one and much to gain. So i dont think its over, even though i think its a different strategic decision right now, both sides dont want to reengage in conflict. Brown is the Palestinian Authority going with this . Has Benjamin Netanyahu been weakened . I dont believe so. Netanyahu is much more careful in terms of how he frames the objectives. His objectives were to destroy the tunnels and restore quiet. The threat ofmas is still there, the military weakened but the threat is still there, and for those on the right hell be challenged. The numbers of support 82 were unrealistic and werent sustainable anyway, so he will have to contend with explaining where you go from here, and i think simply having the status quo ante is sno not something that will necessarily be acceptable. I think hamas is also, in the near term, you know, with the sense they stood up is one thing, but as the dust settles, i think there there be wil thera lot of questions in terms of where to go from here, and in terms of authority, they want to show theyre back in gaza. Hamas will want to demonstrate whos in control and thats an issue for us to watch. Ifill how different is the role egypt played this time around and how different was the role the u. S. Played . Oh, very different, because i think, obviously, in some ways, egypt is essential, partly because, of course, egypt has a stake in gaza, its right there and cares about what happens in gaza for multiple reasons a for the palestinian cause but b because they see hamas as the threat in all eyes of the muslim brotherhood. But what made them more valuable this time for the israelis was they were closer to israel on hamas in many ways. Thats one reason israel is in some ways preferred egyptian to american mediation, whereas oddly enough the palestinians actually preferred american to egyptian mediation. This is the oddity of all this. Ifill were going to talk about the u. S. s role in this. Did it help to step back from the table a little bit . Yes, i think it did because, at the end of the day, the egyptians had the leverage. Shibley was right, you had a conversion between egypt and israel. Egypt in some ways was harder on hamas than the israelis were. Theyre the ones and probably the deal is the reopening of raffa. Only they could do that. Ifill right, the checkpoint in egypt. Yes. From an american standpoint, we looked at egypt and wondered are they active enough to make something happen . And that probably had us look at turkey and qatar but in a way that was unlikely to produce the egyptians. Help, number one. But number two, different if last time, this time the egyptians didnt want it to appear as if they needed the u. S. To come in and do this and because of that i think we were still active but at a much more low visibility fashion. inaudible if so, what is it those things are likely to happen . The reality is we can say both lost and political stalemate or whatever, but gaza was in horrible shape before the war started. Before the war, guess what, not only do we have. 8 population in debt and a quarter homeless, but the damage to property is many times its g. D. P. And no one can do that from the inside so even to get back to where they were which is horrible is going to take an enormous amount, billions of dollars, and, two, i think when you look at it nobody really can do this over and over again. There was a war in 2008, 2009 that was devastating, there was a war in 2012 just two or three years later. Theres a war now, and some israelis are saying this is not for the unfinished business, we need to do this again. Ifill has this evolved into a war of attrition that this was is only way out . Yes, i think that helps to explain why were seeing this end right now. The price did become too high and the gains grew increasingly suspect. So that produced a reality of where we are right now. But i think it will create an incentive on each side not to see it on each end. One element of the reconstruction is the p. A. Is at the border crossing, the Palestinian Authority, so they can be in a position where they can take some credit for this, but also the more you begin to have reconstruction assuming there are safeguards so hamas cant misuse the material to rebuild the tunnels and rockets, the more it will be hard to go back to conflict because to begin to restore life again in gaza will create a strong incentive not to put that at risk. If i may say, the gaza war was the symptom not the source of the problem. Before we were talking about the possibility of the two states of israel coming to an end, collapse of hope. So even if you fix gaza, meaning what has happened, all the tragedy that has happened, thats not going to fix it and i think one thing that they will do historically is create opportunities, reshuffle the deck. It can cut both ways. People can say im going to fight again or they can say this is not tenable. The diplomatic effort should focus on turning this into doing something more comprehensive. Ifill well be watching. Shibley telhami, dennis ross, thank you both very much. Pleasure. Ifill now, when is an American Company not an American Company . Jeffrey brown has our look at a growing controversy over Corporate Taxes. Brown in recent years, a number of American Companies, as many as 22 since 2011, have relocated outside u. S. Borders, usually through mergers with or purchases of a Foreign Company. One impact of changing their business addresses theyre no longer subject to u. S. Corporate taxes. Its a process commonly known as a tax inversion. And burger king appears to be the latest example. Today it announced plans to pay some 11 billion for the canadian restaurant chain, tim hortons. Burger king will effectively become a Canadian Company for tax purposes, though the Company Denies that was the motive for the move. Here to tell us about all this is economist roberton williams, senior fellow at the non partisan tax policy center, a joint venture of the urban institute and the brookings institution. And welcome to a tax inversion. Maybe a phrase only an economist could like. What exactly is it and are we actually seeing more of them . An inversion occurs when an American Company merges with a Foreign Company and becomes the Foreign Company. Thats the important part. You have to become a foreign entity to avoid u. S. Corporate taxes. Brown are we seeing more of them . We, are for a couple of reasons. People are seeing high Corporate Tax rates and trying to avoid that. Secondly, appears congress is thinking about way to have stopping inversions. People are trying to get in ahead of that kind of change, make the inversion now so you can take advantage of it before the door closes. Brown i see, so theyre taking preemptive action in some cases. As i said, burger king says this is not why they did it. What do Companies Say about the tax structure, about why they might want to become Foreign Companies for tax purposes . Theyre not going to use taxes as an excuse for merging. That doesnt sell well to the American Public or stockholders. What they sell it as is an advantageous melding of two different kinds of activities. In the case of burger king, theyre saying were getting the breakfast activities of tim hortons plant. So theyre pling things together and making a Larger Company to bring benefit to stockholders. The tax savings are just an added benefit, they say. Brown they say. How does the u. S. Corporate tax structure compare to others . I mean, what is the argument for that kind of move . The United States taxes corporations differently than most other developed countries. We tax corporations based on all the profits they make worldwide as opposed to the profits they make at home. Most countries are viewed as a territorial system. You tax on the business that goes on in your own country. Thats a very different thing. For us, we also have the very highest tax rate. Our tax rate is in excess of 35 , higher than any other developed country in the world. We have a lot of tax rates that bring the rates down we have a lot of tax breaks to bring the rates down and you can take advantage of the loopholes. If you earn money overseas, you dont pay taxes until until you bring the moneys home. Theres about 2 trillion of American Companies profits sitting oversees because companies dont want to bring them home and pay americans taxons them. Theyre hoping for a tax holiday, a lower or zero rate to bring the moneys home and while theyre waiting for it to happen theyre doing what would look like as silly things. For example, apple has billions of dollars of profit sitting overseas yet they borrowed 30 billion at home. Why borrow the money at home while you have money overseas . Taxes. And you can deduct the interest you pay at home so youre doing okay on the home taxes. Brown so for the critics of the company and many people looking at this just as an example, it looks inefficient, it looks unpatriotic, as unpatriotic corporate citizens. The president certainly looks at it that way and a number of congressmen say this is not fair. On the other hand, theres nothing wrong with trying to minimize your tax bill. You and i do it, i hope. Brown but you mentioned the president. He said he sort of called out the companies. He also, though, said he didnt know how much authority, if he had that much authority to take action. Where does that stand in terms of what the president or Congress Might do . The treasury is looking to see if there are ways they can close down some of the benefits for inverting. One of the Things Companies that invert do is loan money from the Foreign Company to the american part of the company. The americans pay interest to the foreign part of the company, that interest is deductible against the american profits and reduces taxes paid by the corporation in the United States, and the interest is not taxable in other countries. So its a winwin situation on the tax side. Its a way of not only getting out from under the Corporate Tax for your moneys earned outside the United States but minimizing the tax you pay on profits made inside the United States. Brown i know youre not a political scientist but you watch. This where do you see the kind of sentiment and politics that calls for change . I mean, even today with burger king, who is a very prominent company, right, with a name brand, calls for boycotts. So how much public sentiment do you see that might be pushing the president and congress to take action to stop these kinds of moves . I dont know how far that will go, people will call for the boycotts, and whether they actually give up their burger king hamburgers or tim hortons donuts in the morning, i dont know. What i know is we need the revenues, were running large deficits, still, and whatever things using up the revenues are things not good for the u. S. Treasury. The treasury will look for as many ways as they can to stop it. Whether theyre successful or Congress Steps in is another question. Brown roberton williams, thanks very much. Youre welcome. Ifill now, we continue this weeks series rethinking college. As states cut funding for Public Institutions, students are taking on bigger debt to pay for their education. More than 70 of last Years College graduates had Student Loans, averaging almost 30,000 each. Hari sreenivasan has our report. Sreenivasan it was a great day for ann degarmo, who joined 6,400 students for graduation at the university of wisconsin in madison last may. The milestone marked the beginning of her life after college. Oh my god, oh my god, its happening, its happening. Sreenivasan it also marked the beginning of payments on 58,000 of Student Loans. The heavy debt load carried by students like ann degarmo has sparked a National Dialogue among policy makers. And its easy to see why. Seven of ten graduating students left college last year in debt. The average debt load is 26,000. One in ten owes more than 40,000. Behind home mortgages, Student Loans are the second largest source of personal debt, more than credit cards, more than auto loans. The total bill due for students in america tops one trillion dollars. Throughout college, ann degarmo held a job. Even so, she took on private and federal loans to make ends meet. I couldnt work enough hours with going to School Full Time and be able to afford to pay my rent in full. Sreenivasan now, the reality of paying down debt for years has her worried. Its hard, its really hard, and its really scary. Sreenivasan why are you scared . This education is going to cost me, you know, a car, a house potentially. 58,000 isnt change, its definitely not pocket change, its going to cost me the ability to start a family when i want to, potentially, depending how fast i can pay it back. Sreenivasan degarmo brought her concerns to a town hall meeting in madison. The gathering was organized by an Advocacy Group called one wisconsin now. Scott ross is the groups executive director. Weve traveled around wisconsin, and weve talked to people of all ages about their student loan debt, and its soul crushing for them, theyre saying all i want to do is go to college, and now ive got a 25 year obligation sreenivasan student saul newton, from northern wisconsin, described the difficult time he had affording college. Over the course of two years i saw my tuition skyrocket, i was working multiple jobs trying to keep my head above water, but i was drowning. Sreenivasan newton says he joined the army to avoid serious debt, and was quickly deployed to afghanistan during the military surge in 2007. Im grateful that now i qualify for the gi bill and i can go to college, and i have that opportunity, but i think its very indicative of the types of choices that students have to make now, that i had to make the choice to go to war in order to afford a college education. Sreenivasan congressman mark pocan, a democrat who represents wisconsins second district, believes student debt is creating a drag on the countrys economic recovery. Coming out of school youre paying a lot of loans, if youre not buying a new car, youre not stimulating the economy. Instead of buying a home, you might rent. So some of the things that really help us at the most base level of trying to bring the economy up and get it going while were still recovering from the recession is held back even further by people having high levels of debt. Sreenivasan so whats causing the problem . With the crash of the entire economy just a few years ago, we really havent seen states put money back into the Public Institutions, so while you still have the cost of education, if its not being covered as it traditionally was, often by the states, its gone and got passed on to students over and over. Sreenivasan in fact, tuition at Public Institutions has risen more than 50 over the last decade. Its a significant number given that 70 of undergraduates in the United States attend Public Institutions. Recently wisconsins Governor Scott walker weighed in on the rising costs of higher education. In announcing his reelection campaign, walker promised to extend a twoyear tuition freeze at the university of wisconsin. More students and more working families can afford to get a great education at one of our many u. W. Campuses all across the state, how about that . Sreenivasan ross welcomes any attention to high College Costs and heavy debt as an Election Year issue. There are forty million student loan debtors out there, they need to get organized, you know. If you think about the amount of time and discussion and debate, and fear that elected officials have to say doing something with social security, well theres sixty five Million People who get social security, now weve got forty Million People with student loan debt, thats forty Million People who, if they get involved in the Public Policy debate, if they get organized, theyre going to be a voting block that people will fear to not act. Sreenivasan this spring, a flurry of bills were introduced by democrats in wisconsin and washington to lower the existing debt burden, so far with little success. One bill, proposed by congressman pocan would allow for refinancing of Student Loans at lower interest rates. In anything else in the world, if youre a small business, if you own a home, you have a car, youre a state or local unit of government, everyones refinancing loans because were at historic lows, and yet with Student Loans its really not allowed. Sreenivasan what about the folks that say, well, wheres personal responsibility, this is the cost of going to school . I think the difference is, you know, when i went to school, i could pay it off in five years. Now, these are people leaving with 26,000, 58,000, and not doing it in five years, but doing it in ten, 20 years. Its difficult to kind of understand as an 18or19year old that, you know, this education that you want, and youre expected to get, at this point in order to get a good job, is going to cost so much money. It is still true that to get the good job, a College Degree is worth the money. Sreenivasan according to the federal reserve, a bachelors degree provides a 75 wage advantage over a high school diploma. Despite the high cost, some studies say the rate of borrowing has remained steady, and the vast majority of graduates are pleased with their education. The College Experience is great, ive had a lovely, a wonderful time in college, but its challenging, and its sometimes very exhausting, but i think in the long run its worth it, its worth it. Sreenivasan degarmo is likely to get some relief on her federal Student Loans from the president s executive order this summer which caps payments to 10 of monthly earnings. Ifill tomorrow, hari looks at the impact that massive open online courses, called moocs, are having on traditional teaching at the university level. And online, you can read about how New Hampshire is experimenting with a tuition freeze at its public colleges to keep its students instate. Plus, join us all week for newshour twitter chats, tomorrows topic what gives a College Degree its value . Ifill we return now to iraq, and the prospects for unity in a greatly fractured country. The Obama Administration has repeatedly stated that it will provide additional military support against the Islamic State group only when iraqis form an inclusive government that can deliver national unity. However, as chief Foreign Affairs correspondent Margaret Warner reports tonight from northern iraq, disaffected sunnis and kurds are saying they dont have much hope in the politics emanating from baghdad. Warner Kurdish Peshmerga soldiers greeted the mayor of the longcontested city of kirkuk sunday as he toured a trench built to stop infiltration from the south of the city. How many of these observation posts are there . Weve built 32 of these and there are another 28 were building. Warner the Iraqi Military helped protect the city too, it fled the socalled Islamic States advance in midjune. Armed forces from the semi autonomous Kurdish Regional government took over. The trench around the city funnels all who seek to enter through clawed checkpoints and many outsiders are turned away. Its a metaphor for the mutual distrust that inflicts the country among the shiites, sunnis and the kurds. Now that the militants captured onethird of iraq, the pressure is on encouraged by the u. S. With the three fashions to reconcile in the capitol. 12 days ago shiite Prime Minister Nouri Almaliki agreed to step aside after eight years. Another shiite figure alabadi faces a september 10 deadline to form a new government with buy inn from disaffected sunnis and kurds. You have two constituencies in the country who feel alienated. Reporter Michael Stephenson says before cooperating both groups have demands. Above all guarantees that malikis heavy handed shiitedominated rule wont be repeated. Theres a number of problems here on both sides to do distribution of resources and almost a show of respect from the state. Reporter part of that respect bubbles up from beneath, iraqs oil well, the worlds 7th largest producer drawing Foreign Companies with technology and management skills to produce here. But the maliki government has shortchanged the kurd and sunni regions in redistributing the revenues. Yet ordinary iraqis seem most concern with sharing the oil. Those we met said what they really want is a peaceful country in which to live their lives. This woman fled mosul with her family when extremists took over in june. We met her in a shopping mall. We hope things get better, we ask only for peace and security. Warner baghdad lawyer aqil al hayali said rampant sectarian violence had forced him and his wife from baghdad. translated there is a 20 possibility i will go back but things have to get better, i thank god we dont have kids right now. Warner but can the political system deliver on reconciliation, and in the face of the i. S threat . For answers, we went to two major figures, one from each alienated camp kirkuk governor karim, a kurd, and sunni arab ali hatem alsuleiman, leader of iraqs largest tribe, whose fighters in 20062008 helped u. S. Forces turn the tide against al qaeda in iraq. Governor karim won the election three years ago with a huge majority drawn from all his citys sectarian and ethnic communities, kurds, sunni arabs, turkomen, christians and shiites. On a heavilyguarded tour of the City Projects under construction, he maintained he extremists advance has brought the citys often divided groups together. Actually, believe it or not, it has strengthened the relationship. They feel closer to me, they come to me for their concerns and their needs more than actually before. Warner kadims sought buyin from all his constituents, delivering services and governing inclusively in contrast to the zerosum politics in baghdad. Turkoman shopowner arkan esam appeared to confirm that. translated we like this governor. Why . Because he is serving the city and doesnt differentiate between the ethnicitys. Warner but iraqs long running sectarian warfare among sunnis, shiites and kurds, newly fueled by the extremists advance, still impinges. We met with him the morning after three deadly bombings tore through his city. President obama had been reluctant to get engaged more militarily in iraq until its warring factions agree to work together. The weekend suicide bombings here in kirkuk and a cluster of other attacks in baghdad, diyala province and erbil, suggest that reconciliation remains very difficult to achieve. Karim believes theres only one path to that decentralizing the government and empowering the countrys three regions. If not, he forecasts, there will be a messy breakup anyway. The common goal is to build a country thats truly democratic, thats inclusive and that is decentralized to the maximum extent that you can do it. Warner and if thats not possible . If thats not possible i think iraq is gone as we know it. Warner and what about the kurdish region . The kurdish region will have every right if that doesnt happen to go its own way and determine its future. Warner and kirkuk is part of that . Kirkuk is always part of kurdistan. translated we dont want to split from iraq but we want to have our own region, our own economy, our own security. We never wanted to split from iraq but rather strengthen iraqs unity. Warner we met Sheikh Ali Hatem in erbil, far from his ancestral home of Anbar Province he sought refuge here a month ago after baghdad issued an arrest warrant against him for treason in the wake of the conflict between malikis forces and sunni demonstrators in anbar. He shares gov. Karims view, that the reconciliation talks in baghdad will go nowhere if the Central Government doesnt loosen its grip. Warner how hopeful are you that this kind of inclusive government can be formed . translated very difficult. If we want to protect iraq, if we want to protect the right of the iraqi people we should go the solution of three different regions or the democratic, federal iraq rather than a united iraq built over the blood of the iraqi people. Warner if that does come to pass, al hatem says, then his duleim tribe and others are ready to take up arms against the Islamic State forces, if translated i. S. I. S. Are not muslims, they are islamists. Islam doesnt call for a country we have postponed the battle against isis only because of the political situation. Otherwise, we are going to face them. Warner even if they do, would it be enough . The idea that political agreement i baghdad will immediately solve all the problems with sunni disaffection and tribal disaffection is a bit naive. But it just opens that door. Warner for a country that sees no exit, even an open door offers hope. Ifill i spoke with margaret a short time ago. Thanks for joining us again. We just heard in your piece a kurdish leader said a decentralized iraq is possible. Is baghdad crazy about that idea . I havent been in baghdad on this trip, but i would say that the shiites certainly arent going to like that idea. After all, they are the majority in this country, theyre bound to keep winning future elections and that means for the foreseeable future theyll always get to have asite Prime Minister and malikis made that a hugely important post. Thing on thing that might change their mind to be willing to compromise is they need the other two groups to fight the threat from the extremist forces but thats only if the kurds and sunnis insist on it as a price for getting into the government. The kurds who have the semiautonomous region already up here are, of course, in favor of it, if it means getting a bigger slice of the oil revenues. I think the sunni Political Class is a little less clear because you do have sunni politicians in baghdad who are invested in the idea of a strong Central Government, they just want a bigger slice of it. The critics say, like that sheikh we interviewed, thats because they want to share in the spoils. The question i keep getting asked here, gwen, is where is the United States going to come down on this . A lot of people here, and also farther south into iraq proper, have said, you know, the americans insistence over the last ten years under president s george w. Bush and obama on a unified iraq is unrealistic because the politics practiced here are sectarian, winner takes all and always alienates the other two groups. Ifill does iran have a role in the direction this goes . Oh, absolutely, theyve had a role here all along even all during the american occupation, as a matter of fact, but the latest sign of that was that, today, surprisingly, the Iranian Foreign minister showed up in erbil, met with the president and Prime Minister, had a press conference and the president of this region announced iran has been supplying the kurds with weapons to fight the i. S. Forces. Now thats a real turnaround because the iranians had their own kurdish problem as they see it. Theyve never been friendly to this semisovereign kurdish entity up here, but i guess its the i. S. Threat impeeling them in that direction and beer zanny said, you know, we asked a lot of countries for help and weapons and iran was first country to respond. So i think it is evidence, gwen, in this sort of slow motion dissolution of iraq we have been seeing over the last few years exacerbated by the i. S. Forces now, not only iran, but perhaps some of iraqs other neighbors are going to want to play. Ifill keeping an eye on iran and the u. S. , Margaret Warner for us in iraq tonight, thank you. Pleasure, gwen. Ifill we turn now to our occasional series of conversations with those directly affected by the ongoing border crisis. Jeff is back with that. Brown last night we heard from an attorney offering Free Legal Services to immigrants at a new mexico detention center. Tonight, rancher and veterinarian Gary Thrasher joins us. Hes lived on the southern u. S. Border for more than four decades. He has a ranch near sierra vista, arizona, just 8 miles from the mexican border. And he treats cattle in ranches from arizona to new mexico to west texas, where rugged, remote landscape is a major corridor for Illegal Immigrants and drug smugglers. Welcome to you, dr. Thrasher. So how does illegal immigration at the border impact your life as a rancher and vet . Give us a glimpse of life at the border as you experience it. Well, where im at, at the border, and where i spend most of my time is in the remote regions of the border rather the areas where theres a lot of population, so were in pretty remote areas that have a lot of traffic, that are not patrolled very regularly, and it does create a situation where we come in contact with quite a few people coming across the border for all kinds of different reasons. Right now, its a lot of drugs, a lot of other than mexican type smuggling. Mostly smuggling rather than just immigrant activities. In the past its a huge amount of immigrants and now its drugs and otms, they call them. Brown have you seen changes in the recent years either in volume or types of activities . Oh, yeah, theres change depending on the regions of the border. I travel the whole border of new mexico and arizona primarily and different regions have different types of traffic depending on the gangs running the particular routes through there. We are not seeing much in the line of unaccompanied minors coming across in our area mostly because they have much easier access through the texas corridor down around the rio grande. But if they ever stop that down there, it will be coming here. So were expecting to see it eventually. Brown explain that because there is a lot of talk about border issues in texas, but youre worried that when it gets turned off there it moves up to where you are . Historically, thats the way its always happened. There was a lot of traffic through california when they shut that corridor. They sent them into the arizona corridors thinking it would be a lot more rugged and more difficult for them, but its just a matter of where the gates are open the most, and we have, running parallel to the arizona border and new mexico border, we have mexican route 2 that runs from mexicali to juarez and its excellent access for anything coming to the border. In spots its less than half a mile from the u. S. Mexican border. So if they dont go through the rio grande valley, the next most successful place is along our border. Arown sounds like go ahead. Im sorry. If they plug our border, the next place will probably be the texas big bend area, but theres not very good access on the mexican side, so its the last one that will be pressured with anything. Brown sounds like, for you, the immigration and particularly the immigration of minors isnt so much the issue as security or Border Security is and drugs. Define that problem and how serious is it and what do you want to see happen . Well, because more and more serious the Illegal Immigrants is not as serious a problem as the drug trade and trade from other people being smuggled in from other countries. When theyre driven farther and farther out into the sticks to cross the border, its becoming much more difficult to them and they dont want to be caught out there and they dont want their trails to be interrupted. So it becomes a little bit more violent. They stand up to us a lot more. As it is now, we dont very often come in contact with very many people because we dont want to be in contact with them. We just want to call it in and see if the Border Patrol can catch them after theyve come across, rather than confronting them ourselves like we used to. Theres just been too many people hurt and too much violence going on for us to get involved in that now. Brown so i wonder, as you watch and listen to the debate around the country, what is it that you want the rest of the country to know or that perhaps is not being understood or seen clearly from where you sit . Well, the border is not a uniform, consistent situation all the way across the border. Some places the fence works, some places it doesnt, some places you dont want a fence. Each particular area has its own characteristics and will have to be dealt with differently. You cant compare the ro rio gre valley to the Arizona Mountains to the deserts. Theyre completely different. Takes different planning and different ways to slow the immigration. What most of our problem in arizona is the fact that Border Patrol, hi historically, has not actually tried to enforce the International Boundary in the rural areas. They wait for them to come across, then chase them, try to apprehend them after theyve gone through our ranches and caused whatever problems theyre going to cause. At this point, we need them on the International Boundary rather than back. I dont mean 100 of them. I mean 75 to 80 of the agents. As it is now, theyre trying to watch them, but when they watch them, they just watch them cross and then chase them to our places which doesnt make a lot of sense to us. Brown in our last 30 or 40 seconds here, youve watched the debate going on in washington. Is there one thing you would like to see from the federal government at this point . A change in policy. A change in deployment strategies, dependent upon the particular areas. Its not a onesizefitsall thing where they control it all from washington, d. C. The agents on the ground morale is terrible after the problem with the unaccompanied minors. You know, illegal crossing of the border the first time where you just cross the border and havent done anything else is only a misdemeanor. How much risk and how much effort do you want to go to to enforce a misdemeanor . There is no way to differentiate whether theyre carrying guns, whether theyre carrying somebody thats a criminal or seeks to do harm in the u. S. So its very difficult and its very disheartening for the agents themselves. They get frustrated in what theyre doing. How much confidence can you have when theyre controlled and deceived the way they are . Brown Gary Thrasher, thanks so much for joining us. You bet. Thank you. Ifill well have more conversations on the border crisis soon. Ifill again, the major developments of the day. Israel and hamas agreed to an openended ceasefire that may finally end seven weeks of warfare. The president s of russia and ukraine met face to face, but their latenight talks made little progress toward ending the crisis in ukraine. And president obama and other top officials stopped short of confirming reports of u. S. Surveillance flights over syria. They could lead to airstrikes against the Islamic State group. On the newshour online right now, singersongwriter Valerie Junes anthem for working women was inspired by the heroines in her life her mother, grandmother and even the small businesswomen shes worked for. Seattles k. E. X. P. Recorded a recent performance. You can watch that on art beat. All that and more is on our web site, newshour. Pbs. Org. And thats the newshour for tonight. On wednesday, well have another report from Margaret Warner in northern iraq, and well take a look at what it takes to free captured americans. Im gwen ifill, well see you online, and again here tomorrow evening. For all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by moving our economy for 160 years. Bnsf, the engine that connects us. And by the alfred p. Sloan foundation. Supporting science, technology, and improved Economic Performance and Financial Literacy in the 21st century. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. This is nightly Business Report with Tyler Mathisen and sus susie gharib. So close. The Dow Jones Industrial hits an intraday record and the s p above 2000. If you missed the rally, there are still a few stocks one market watcher says are worth buying. Teaming up, merck and pfizer, two fierce competitors, now partners with a common goal. Combatting a certain type of cancer. And to do lists. As the kids head back to school, we have a checklist of dos and dont for your portfolio, whether youre 20, 40 or 60. We have all that and more tonight on nightly Business Report for tuesday, august 26. Good evening, im susie gharib. Tyler is off tonight. Wall street doesnt usually get excited about a twopoint move in stocks. But today was diff