And creativity in our society. The john d. And catherine t. Macarthur foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. More information at macfound. Org. Park foundation, dedicated to heightening Public Awareness of critical issues. The kohlberg foundation. Barbara g. Fleischman. And by our sole corporate sponsor, mutual of america, designing customized individual and Group Retirement products. Thats why were your retirement company. Welcome. Ill wager that in the first seven pages of this book, losing our way, you will be hooked. And when you close the final chapter, you will have seen our country as you havent in a long time intimately, through the eyes of a great reporter. His stories take us across america, from the best buy headquarters in minnesota to ordinary homes in allentown, pennsylvania. You will meet Jessica Gallardo at her high school in brooklyn, and rico and frankie blancaflor of montclair, new jersey, survivors of hurricane sandy. You will never forget what happened in an orchard in afghanistan to Lieutenant Dan berschinski, and to troy orion tom, the navajo indian from shiprock, new mexico. Youll discover how corporate tough guys neutron jack welch and chainsaw al dunlap modeled the ceo of the future, blazing away during the high noon of capitalism at the middle class and working people. Here is how america lost its way. But youll also see why the only practical response to whats happened to us is for people to fight back. That may sound like a cliche, perhaps, but bob herbert has seen it happen before, and comes home from his journey believing it can happen again. He was a columnist for the New York Times for 18 years, a champion of working people and the middle class like his hardworking parents in new jersey. Were good friends and kindred spirits, as well as colleagues at the schumann media center, from which he is presently on leave working on a major documentary. Bob, good to see you again. Great to be here, bill. Thank you. What does the country look like out there . You encounter a lot of problems in the book, as you travel the country. But you also encounter a lot of people. Lets start with some of those people. Tell me about mercedes gorden. This was a young woman, 32yearold woman, delightful woman. And she was going across that i35 bridge in minneapolis, minnesota that collapsed and crashed into the mississippi river. This was back in august 2007. And we tell mercedes entire story in this book, from the moment that she left work and headed toward that bridge to this terrible accident, where she was horribly injured. And we chronicle her recovery. And we use that as a way of getting into the issue of our collapsing infrastructure in the united thats the first story. Thats how we open the book. You start with a wreck. Right, exactly right. And i think that this, you know, the collapse of this bridge not only is it part of the story of our need to rebuild the Physical Plant of america. I think that its also a metaphor for whats happened in america. We have not taken proper care of the infrastructure. Its a sign that the center is not holding in the United States. So its one of the major themes in the book. You find a link between a collapsing infrastructure and a Society Coming apart. Exactly right. The major way weve lost our way, in my view, is that instead of being sort of this civically engaged democracy, which is what the United States is supposed to be, i think that weve established a power structure in which the great corporations and the big banks have allied themselves with the National Government and, in many cases, local government as well, to pursue corporate interests and financial interests as opposed to those things that would be in the best interests of ordinary working people. And once you do that, and weve watched it unfold over a long period of time once you do that, you lose the dynamic that america is supposed to be. Its supposed to be an egalitarian society, a society of rising standards of living, a society of a vast and thriving middle class. And we are getting farther and farther away from that ideal. So many of the people you write about are falling through off the bridge and through the cracks, so to speak. I was impressed with this large man with the fringe of white hair, a mustache and a delicate goatee. Tell us about lamar hayes. Lamar hayes is a fellow that i met in a town called woodstock, which is in the suburbs of atlanta. And he was in the worst industry you could be in at the time of the recession. He was in the housing industry. He built houses for a living. He was a construction supervisor. So he lost his job. This is a fellow who was 52 years old at the time that i talked to him. And what happened was the first thing that struck him was shock at having lost his job, having been fired. But he had not realized how much he loved his work. And he said that after he got the word from his employer, he just got into his pickup truck. And he was driving home. He had a long drive home. And he had to figure out how to tell his wife what had happened. And he said he had to pull over, and he just broke down and cried in the pickup truck. Because he had lost his job. Even though he was distraught over losing his job, it did not occur to him at first that he wouldnt be able to get another good job. You know, he had worked all of his life. This was a middleaged man who had raised a family. He had two daughters still living at home. But he couldnt get a decent job. It was, as he put it, there were no jobs that paid anything. And so he ended up working as a greeter in walmart. And he had this quote that he told me. He looked at me with a strange expression on his face and he said, god must really have a sense of humor, if he made me a greeter at walmart. But you find a lot of people like him who are working harder and earning less, right . Exactly. You have one of the things that has struck me, and not just in connection with the book, is the tough time that young people are having now getting a foothold on a decent standard of living in the United States. You know, i grew up in the early postwar decades, the 50s and 60s. And i think that was probably the greatest time of all to be growing up in america. I mean, jobs were so plentiful. College education was not expensive. Kids did not come out burdened with all this college debt and that sort of thing. Thats changed. So when i talk to bright kids, College Graduates in many cases, coming out of elite schools, and they just say, one, everybody has college debt. I mean, thats their biggest expense when they come out of school. But the other thing is theyre having trouble. Even though they have a fouryear degree, theyre having trouble finding gainful employment, finding jobs that, as lamar hayes would say, that pay anything. And so theyre living either doubled up sometimes four and five kids to an apartment, or theyre going back home to stay with mom and dad. So theyre having trouble, you know, for those who want to get married or begin raising a family or make the first down payment on a home, theyre having trouble making these steps, which are part of the ladder to the good life in the United States. Whats the catch22 you say were trapped in . For better or worse, whatever anybody wants to think of it, we have a consumer capitalism in this country. So if youre going to have a decent standard of living, you have to have a good job. Unless youre very wealthy, you have to have a good job in this country. The way it works is that if americans are working, they spend a lot of money, that powers the economy. That causes businesses to thrive. Businesses hire. You know, and you set in motion a virtuous cycle. But what weve done as a result, is with this alliance of the banks and the big corporations and the government, theyre working against the interests of working people. They want to pay as little as possible to their employees. They dont want to provide benefits. Job security has become a thing of the past, even for people with very good jobs. So what happens is you dont have that virtuous cycle. You dont have people with terrific jobs spending all kinds of money that powers the economy and creates more jobs. So thats the catch22. If we dont understand that you have to pay a decent wage to working americans for the economy to work for everybody, then were going to lose in the long run. And thats whats been happening. You write about apple, for example, as one of your examples. Few companies have been as successful as apple, you write. Lavishly compensated executives, while most of the employees are members of the lowwage service economy, typically earning about 25,000 a year. Apple salespeople were dedicated, you say, many were college educated, and they made tons of money for their employer. Its incredible the amounts of money apple makes. But they werent paying commissions to these workers. Many of these workers were true believers. They were young kids, bright kids. They loved apple products. And they love the corporations. But they had trouble getting a foothold in their own lives, setting up a life for them or for their families, if they had a family. If you look at the gap between what the top executives at a company q0 t e make and then what they pay their line employees its disgraceful. It just its not the way things should be in the United States. If you put in a decent days work, then you should get a decent days pay. That should just be a given. Im sure you have heard here in new york about the new jersey woman, Maria Fernandes, who worked three jobs to make ends meet and died while napping in her car between shifts. She was making 8. 25 an hour and was struggling to get by. Yet when House Speaker john boehner spoke at the conservative think tank, American Enterprise institute, he talked about this idea thats been born in the country that, i really dont have to work. I dont really want to do this. I think id rather just sit around. And i thought of that speech when i read about Maria Fernandes. And i wondered, how can john boehner or any politician, democrat or republican, be so far removed from the lived experience of people that youve met on your journey and people like Maria Fernandes . Boehners comments are so common among a certain segment of the society, this idea that people dont want to work. I have been covering this employment issue for 20 years or more. And i will tell you, i have hardly ever seen anyone who doesnt want to work. Its just the opposite. People are desperate for jobs. And when folks who are looking for a job land a good job, i cant tell you how excited they are. Theyre pumped up. They have a party. They have a party at home. People want to get that next promotion. And you know, you mentioned this woman in new jersey who died under those tragic circumstances. Thats another indication of how were missing the point when we look at the employment picture. But she had three jobs. So those would be considered, like, three jobs that were created at some time or another. So that would be an indication of job growth, when in fact, the reality is that its an indication of how much trouble our americans are in. I have met so many people who are working two and three jobs at a time. They have no time to themselves. They have no time to spend with their children or other members of their family, which is such a shame. And then beyond that, even those folks who are working, their working conditions are often awful. So many of the jobs that are created are parttime jobs or otherwise contingent. But also, people dont, in many cases, even know what their work schedule is going to be from week to week, you know . Because the bosses dont tell you, well, youre working monday through thursday this week at such and such an hour. Theyll say, well, well let you know on monday which couple of days youre working. And monday and tuesday, we may need you to come in at 3 00 in the afternoon. But on wednesday, you may have to come in at 9 00 in the morning. And thats crazy. People should not be treated that way. To me, if you cant afford to pay your workers, its the same as if you cant afford to pay your rent. It means you cant afford to be in business. And if youre making if youre paying your workers what the minimum wage is right now that means to me that either you cant afford to pay your workers, or youre just unwilling to pay your workers what you should be paying them. We should have accepted, as a society, that the minimum wage is an insufficient wage. You spend a good bit of time with veterans of afghanistan and iraq. Tell me about Lieutenant Dan berschinski. Dan berschinski is one of the most inspirational figures that ive ever met. This was a 24yearold guy graduate of west point. Really smart kid. He graduates in 2009, i believe it was. In any event, he goes to afghanistan. Its his first combat tour. And hes leading a platoon of young guys over there. And, you know, he stepped on one of those improvised explosive devices. And both of his legs were blown off, one way up by the hip. He had what they call the hip disarticulation, which meant that they thought that he would not even be able to walk with artificial limbs. So he came back. And i met him. I was introduced to him when he was down at walter reed when it was still in washington in the early stages of his recovery. And he was adamant. He wanted to walk again with these artificial limbs. And the doctors were trying to prepare him and his family for the idea that he might be confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life. But he would have none of that. And i watched his progress. And he eventually was able to walk. It took a couple of years. He went through such pain, such agony. But it was he never complained. He never even seemed down when i spoke with him. It was incredible. And i tell his story, because i think that most americans dont understand the degree of suffering that individuals and their families are going through as a result of these wars that we just continue to fight wars without end, wars where, in many cases the majority of the population is not even paying attention to whats going on. And so the toll in individual lives has been staggering. The suffering for the tens of thousands of men and women who have had grotesque injuries, sometimes losing two limbs, three limbs, sometimes four limbs, terrible burns, brain injuries, and that sort of thing, none of that gets a lot of coverage. And then the staggering costs of these wars, which are borne by the taxpayers. I mean, one of the things that was insane was that, as were at war in iraq and afghanistan, the Bush Administration cut taxes. This has never been done in american history. The idea of cutting taxes while youre going to war is just crazy. I mean, its madness. And then you go on to write about Sergeant Cory remsburg, whom i also remember. Tell us his story. When president obama was giving his state of the Union Address in 2014. And you know, they cite courageous people and honor their, you know, the Television Cameras focus on them. And this fellow, who had been an army ranger was in the spotlight that night. He got blown up by a roadside bomb in afghanistan, terrible injuries, terrible brain injuries, blind in one eye. And you know, its just a tragic situation. So there was every reason to honor this fellow at the state of the union. And he got a standing ovation, as he should have. Cory is here tonight. And like the army he loves, like the america he serves, Sergeant First Class Cory Remsburg never gives up and he does not quit. But the thing that struck me and which didnt get a lot of attention at the time was that this fellow was gravely wounded in his tenth deployment to the war zone. He had been to iraq and afghanistan 10 times. And the reason thats the case is because we dont have enough people volunteering to fight these wars that were constantly engaged in. So the men and women who do volunteer, they just get sent into combat over and over and over. Its like playing russian roulette. Eventually, something terrible is going to happen. If were going to fight wars. You can feel however you want about the wars. But if were going to fight wars, everybody should make a sacrifice in some sense. We should have a draft, so those who are of who are fit and are of combatready age should be subject to actually being sent into the war zone. Everybody should be paying increased taxes to pay for these wars. And we should be making other sacrifices, as americans did in world war ii. Why dont we . We dont because nobody wants to pay additional taxes. And the politicians have found out that this is the way to get electoral votes. And the politicians are interested in getting elected, in amassing power, in raising funds for to finance their campaigns, and whatever other benefits they get. They are interested in themselves, their lives, and the power they can accumulate. They are not interested, in most cases, in whats best for the american people. So you come home having found or with the conviction that we just dont want to seriously address these big challenges that you found in case by case, story by story, person by person, as you traveled the country. It seems to me that we dont. Its more the idea of out of sight, out of mind, which is why we dont pay close attention to the men and women who are fighting our wars, which is why we dont look closely at the implications of the continuing employment crisis, whatever those monthly jobless numbers tell us. And i think that were not going to begin to really get out of this, to get back on the right track until individual americans start taking it upon themselves to pay closer attention and become more civically engaged. Some are, as you know. I mean, the peoples climate march, the opposition to one grievance after another out there, has different people involved in different protests. I agree. Thats absolutely true. And theres actually quite a few people who are engaged in one effort or another. But what we need is some leadership to emerge from these disparate groups that can pull some of that Energy Together in a force that demands the attention of the population at large. And the examples that i give in the book are the early days of the labor movement, for example, when people werent paying much attention to these workers. They were lousy jobs. They werent making any money. But the big deal was they fought hard. And it was a sustained effort. And leadership emerged from those efforts that was powerful. Same thing happened in the civil rights movement. The same thing happened in the womens movement. So what i think is necessary is that we have a more focused, sustained effort to engage some of these great challenges facing the country. The leadership will emerge if you do get that kind focused effort. I think right now, even though there are a lot of people at work on a lot of serious problems, its too diverse, too diffused, too disparate. What would this Broad Movement focus on . I would think i mean, there are any number of things it could focus on. But you know, my choice would be employment. Because that would begin to lift standards of living. And it is when standards of living are going up that the public at large feels that they can pay more attention to some of these other issues, rather than, you know, you spend, you know, almost all your time trying to get your bills paid or trying to find a job or whatever. America works when individual americans are working. That is the those are the best of times for america. And that, to me, is the essential issue. Every person who has been at this table would nod when they read in your report that, the tremendous power in the hands of the moneyed interests will not be relinquished voluntarily. What do we do about it . That is the case where you have to have ordinary americans stand up and say, enough. And this is a case where voting is crucially important. And i argue in the book that voting is not enough. But it is crucially important. People need to start voting against the excessive power of the great moneyed interests in this society. Those candidates who would fight back against that power, vote for those candidates. But more than that, i think that you need direct civic action. You know, we have the occupy protests. But that was a protest that did not have a clear focus, did not make specific demands, did not have a strategy a longterm strategy. We need a movement, a powerful grassroots movement, that will fight for the interests of ordinary men and women and for this new generation of americans thats coming along right now. The book is losing our way an intimate portrait of a troubled america, by my friend, bob herbert. Thank you very much for being with us. Thanks so much, bill. Appreciate it. At our website, billmoyers. Com, you can read an excerpt from bob herberts new book, losing our way. Thats all at billmoyers. Com. Ill see you there and ill see you here next time. Dont wait a week to get more moyers. Visit for exclusive pla ive blo essays and video features. Announcer funding is provided by anne gumowitz, encouraging the renewal of democracy. Carnegie corporation of new york, supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement and the advancement of International Peace and security at carnegie. Org. The ford foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide. The herb alpert foundation, supporting organizations Whose Mission is to promote compassion and creativity in our society. The john d. And catherine t. Macarthur foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. More information at macfound. Org. Park foundation, dedicated to heightening Public Awareness of critical issues. The kohlberg foundation. Barbara g. Fleischman. And by our sole corporate sponsor, mutual of america, designing customized individual and Group Retirement products. Thats why were your retirement company. Welcome to first. Im Mark Eichmann along with shirley min and nichelle mckelveypolston. A new republican endorsed opponent this year. Well talk to him and rose izzo about the Delaware House seat. The nations highprofile Domestic Abuse cases, helping those in need. Looking for new crops which will resist salt water spray and keep growing. The science desk is here with that report. First, your public media news magazine starts now. With less than a month before the midterm elections, whyy will televise two debates as parts of our decision 2014 coverage, one for attorney general, the other for u. S
comparemela.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.