Pursue a plutonium use not for use but for bombs. Iran is going through this route of enormous sanctions by taking the iran economy to get a bomb. Theyre pretty close. Rose how close. Well, they are close to the point where they want to be in a situation where they have enough in rich uranium at lower levels but to be able to punch through and enrich it very rapidly within a matter of weeks to get high rich uranium they can use for a bomb. Rose are they close. They are getting close. They didnt go for high enrichment. Instead they built a lot of piles of rich union annual but added centrifuge to high enrichment just like that. Weve been working today the United States and israel and other countries have put place very forceful sanctions saying if you continue in this path those sanctions will collapse your economy. And theres been a credible military option by the u. S. Perhaps by israel even if the sanctions dont work, there will be ways to take out your program. The combination of Strong Military sanctions and a credible military threat has produced rose economic sanctions and a military correct. This has produced, remember iran is governed not by ahmadinejad or rouhani or the president s who came before them but the person they call aptly by the way in this case, the supreme leader. Thats ayatollah khomeini. He said do heart things with hard works. He got to where he is but he also got the sanctions. When he says do hard things with soft works that way we can go over the line or very close to it without incurring the sanctions. Thats why he got elected within this limited slate of candidates eliminated 99 of the candidates of the regime and left 1 . Seven out of 700 and he was elected in order to relieve the sanctions. He came here to relieve rose maybe he was elected because the iranian people wanted change. Are you kidding. If they were given an open slate of candidates they would take these people out in a second all of this regime who want to mead in a medieval theocracy. They want the majority of iranians. They are the two most pro americans and western populations in the middle east israel. And iran give them blue jeans, beverly hills, you know, the works. Rose the internet. Everything. But they dont. I mean rouhani uses the twitter here in new york but he doesnt let the population there in iran tweet. They dont use facebook. Theyre putting on a nice show here. Rose will the Prime Minister of israel believe that the Iranian Regime can change and can say whatever we were trying to do. Yes. Rose were prepared to change. The sanctions were well the first thing is understand what is going on in iran, and im not guessing, this is not a guesstimate, this is very solid information. Rose do you have sources. Yes, a few. There is a very clear distinction between rouhani and ahmadinejad. Rouhani says we can get to Nuclear Weapons with a smile ahmadinejad says we can get to Nuclear Weapons with frown. Because the sanctions are about to take a devastating blow on the iranian economy thats already been badly hit. Rouhani is giving him a chance. Go ahead try to get me a lifting of the sanctions without giving up the essential. Rose you come in town. I said, just to complete, i cant give up this line. I worked so hard to get it. Rouhani is a wolf. I said that ahmadinejad was a wolf in wolfs clothing and rouhani is a wolf in sheeps clothing. But we cannot let them pull the wool over our eyes. So the answer to your question is can there be a real change . Maybe yes, maybe not. But the only way we can find out is to insist on an agreement that truly dismantles irans program. Rose the prime minute actual of israel is worried that the president of the United States will not insist on as proper demands as the Prime Minister would like to see. And he worries that israel will be left alone. First of all i can tell you everyone shares the worry i have. Three hours of conversation yesterday with president obama. This is on a day when the u. S. Goes into shutdown. So you can think that hes had other things on his plate and we had, i appreciated the fact that he gave us the time. And i tell you we share a common concern. How to stop iran from developing Nuclear Weapons. It was an open conversation with open minded people. I dont think this crystallized thats why i appreciate the opportunity we had. If we Work Together i think we can get to a common policy. The policy should not not to let iran. Its in no ones interest not ours or the u. S. Not to let iran wiggle away from a partial deal in which they make cosmetic sanctions. You lift the sanctions or part of them. Once you do that the sanctions collapse. Rose this is an important point. Where is it that the United States and israel difference on having negotiations with iran. The president has said clearly we have to see deed not rhetoric. Absolutely right. Rose youve been there with the president for three hours and had a frank where are you different. I didnt say frank i said an open and good exchange. Thats diplomatic double speak saying we had a can confrontation. We had a conversation between two leaders achieving a common goal. Rose what do you differ on. I dont know we differ on anything. We dont object to testing the diplomatic route. If theres any country on earth that is struck with an annihilation from irans Nuclear Weapons its us. If we can resolve this diplomatically. The question is what is a deal that does it. John kerry said, senator kerry said a bad deal is worse than no deal. I guess my point is that a partial deal is a bad deal. Because when you lift the sanctions for some minor stuff that they do or partial thing that they do, it takes years to put the sanctions in place. Ive been involved with this years, but when you remove them for concessions that the iranians could reverse within weeks, you may not be able to put them back in place. Theres a lot of countries, im not going to name them. Im the foreign minister so i will be diplomate diplomatic. Rose i know that. There are there are a lot of countries that could collapse. Then iran gets up the ropes and gets to and we lost. Rose i hear thats not in our interest rose you had a full conversation with the president of the United States and you pretty much agree on everything. And you have full confidence that the president of the United States understands israels fear and reservation and clearly has your confidence that he will do the right thing. I think we both now in a Real Exchange trying to work this out because i think from an American Point of view, not only an israeli point of view, and from you know, our point of view, significant European Countries point of view. The last thing we want is to let iran wiggle away with a smile campaign, to have us, you know, be very happy. In north korea everybody celebrated the great deal, you know, was widely celebrated but people were doing it. You want to see this thing work out. And then a year later after this celebrated deal, north korea exploded its First Nuclear device. But you see iran is a lot worse than north korea. Rose you said its 40. 50, 50 north korea because iran seeks our destruction because iran sends terrorism to just in the last three years to 25 countries, 25 cities across the globe because iran is participating in the mass murder in syria. Because iran is trying to undermine these regimes. This is a dangerous regime. You dont want this regime armed with Nuclear Weapons. Rose but youre not answering this question. Are the demands that you would make on the iranians to prove that they are real and credible, the same demands that the president will push forward in the negotiations with the Iranian Foreign minister. You have to know that. We have to see rose we know your demands. But the United States was formulating its demands. What i did is that iran has no natural right to a rich youre rain annual given that rose you dont doubt they have the right to have Peaceful Nuclear energy. So does canada and mexico and 17 other countries, 15 other countries. 17 am together that have civilian Nuclear Energy without enriching urainium. Thats to erin rich it to 90 percent. Thats enrichment virtually means that a country that possesses this capability is able to produce so he says Nuclear Weapons. So if you want civilian Nuclear Energy, you dont need to enrich. The only reinyou need to enrich is not for Nuclear Energy is to enable you to build Nuclear Bombs thats why canada and mexico dont need enrichment, thats why sweden and switzerland dont need enrichment snivment do you do you think you can prove that to iranians and then be prepared to make a deal. And prove it . No, i cant prove it much these people are very cynical. Look at what was saying in the u. S. We are for democracy the tragedy in syria, we are against terrorism. Come this, this isnt serious. It isnt a question of proving to them its to lining up the rose you seem to be saying we should go forward with the negotiations and see if we can find a better route than having them try to have a Nuclear Weapon become, have the ability and be close to the ability within weeks so that you believe israel or the United States will have to strike. The question is can you negotiate with somebody who is not trustworthy. Of course you can you do all the time. Rose thats what you have to do, you negotiate with your enemies. You negotiate in a clever way. Youre not blinded by them. You remember reagan said trust and verify. I say distrust, dismantle and verify. You can do that but then youve got to put the right pieces in place and not allow them to fool you. And the second point is yes you should keep a credible military option all the time because ultimately that is what got the sanctions to work. Rose theres nothing in your dna that would allow you to be Prime Minister of israel when iran has the capacity under no circumstances would you allow that to happen. Thats correct. Rose does israel today have the capacity to stop it. Some people say yes the United States does but israel cannot. All israel can do is delay. Do you know something, ill give you a state secret here on the charlie rose show. The u. S. Has a stronger military than israel but dont short change israel either. I wouldnt go beyond that. I never do, im about the only israeli that talks about our military capability. But i think its very important to make sure that the regime, you know, i represent a people that islued for almost 4,000 years. Weve had great periods and weve had our awful periods and we went right into the abyss of destruction. When the nations of the world did not believe about a radical dick tearship that spoke about our annihilation. When people say theyre out to kill you take them seriously but above all prevent them from a getting the weapons to kill you, the weapons of mass death. When these radical regimes ends with the jews it doesnt end with the jews. It didnt happen before and it doesnt happen now. Theres a cult that controls iran. They come and they sound reasonable and they are reasonable up to the paint where theyll get the weapon. I always give the example somebody who is totally unreasonable with a wild ideology that until they get to the point where they can actually use that power, they appear very sensible. Thats a suicide bomber. Weve had a lot, the suicide bomber as hes driving on his way to board the bus he obeys the traffic laws and says the right things. Once he gets on the bus. I think weve learn that radical regimes that are intent on global domination and wide ideology and apocalyptic ideologies. Once they get to the point of power all bets are off. We cannot be in that position. Therefore i say not negotiate. Yes, negotiate but be very tough. Dont do partial deals that allow them to get the weapons. Rose you worry that youre being at this moment while negotiations are under way to frighten in your language. No. Rose secondly. Being very truthful. Rose no negotiations are under way, you cant launch an attack against iran. Very brilliant. I wanted to talk about that. I just formulated the principle. Rose whats wrong with what i just said. You can not attack the time theyre negotiating, can you . You know, i never talk about that but i did and do say what has been said time and time again including by president obama. Israel is threatened with annihilation by iran. And israel had the right, i would say the duty to defend itself by itself against any threat. I hope, i hope that this proposition doesnt have to be tested, charlie. The way it wouldnt be tested is to get a successful dismantling, a complete dismanhattan ling dismantling of the Nuclear Weapons. Rose do they have to convince you. Its not a question of convincing. Its not what they say its what they do. Its not their words which is a double talk. Rose do you because of your own intelligence sources about the Iranian State of mind than president obama and his intelligent sources and other nations and their intelligent sources. You, because of what you think this reading along with a believe your sources of information about them and their intent are better than anybody elses. We have superb intelligence. But heres the thing i would comment on. Its not their state of mind, although we know about that a great deal. Its the state of their capabilities. And the biggest mistakes that countries have made, i think in ancient times and modern times is not to focus on their adversarys capabilities. We want to make sure they dont have the capability. Whether or not they have the state of mind is a different question. If they dont have the weapons to carry out their ambitions its less important. Rose ive had one secretary of defense after another say they have not yet made a decision to build a Nuclear Weapon. There are two aspects. One is the biggest thing, the most difficult thing in getting a Nuclear Weapon is to get enriched, the material. Thats the stuff you put in the bomb. Thats 90 there when you got it. The last 10 is coating that ball of material with an explosive device. Thats not very hard to do that. So when they say they havent yet made a weapon rose they have not made a decision they havent taken a ball wrapped it around a detonator. Rose or they dont have the capacity yet to do it. Once you have the capacity you can make decisions. You have to make sure by the way, iran, charlie, would not be interesting in having one bomb or two bombs. Theyre giving up their infrastructure for 200 bombs. And theyre not developing those icbms for us. They can reach us for what they have. Its for you, its for you. Rose you clearly told the president that, didnt you. I didnt have to tell him that because the american intelligence knows as well as we do that iran is developing icbms not to reach us rose im going to ask you one more time. Is there any space between you and the american president because much has been written and said about differences between the Prime Minister and the president. Are you saying after this three hour conversation were on the same page theres no difference, we have the same goahead momentum. I think that at this stage what i can say is we have a common goal, weve had it for many years. Rose thats always been true. Thats not something i think the president said something very important publicly and he repeated it private see. He said we have to see steps, actions, not words. Rose thats good enough for you. What were talking about right now is what are meaningful actions. Rose do you agree on that. Were talking about that right now. Rose lets turn to syria. Again through the russians, conversations with the syrians. Theyll give up chemical weapons and the United States will not launch an air strike. Whats your assessment of that arrangement. I hope it works. I mean it will be very good if that happens. Rose do you trust the syrians to do that . No. I trust, i told you distrust, dismantle and verify. Rose do you believe ty will thats the three principles 123450eu6789 do rose do you believe they will dismantle. I think we try to cheat but if they have very good intel answer as we do and the u. S. Does and we share, then we dont let them get away with it. Rose what do you think of the role of the russians. So far its good. Lets see if it continues, it will be better for everyone. Do you know what syria shows you, it shows you that a regime, a radical regime, an irresponsible rogue regime if it has weapons of mass destructions they end up using it. Thats what people believe or understand. You see this gun in the first act it goes off in the third act. Thats why these regimes should not be allowed to have these weapons. Chemical weapons kill people in the thousands. Nuclear weapons kill people in the millions. And rogue regimes should not be allowed to have weapons of mass destruction. Through the threat of military force and an effective dismantling. You dont say to syria take off a few real weapons and we release the sanctions. You say a full dismantling. Thats a good model for iraq. Rose do you believe that assad can find a way to stay in power if he dismantles the chemical went ips. I dont think his power is based on gunning down opponents with machine guns, attack helicopters, artillery in the neighborhoods. Look, i take care of israels secure interest carefully but theres a humanitarian crises in syria that is reaching monumental proportions. Rose let me tell you millions displaced. Probably 110, 120,000 killed already. Rose tragic. A lot of children. This is beginning to mount as a huge tragedy and i think we have to think about what it is we do about it. I spoke about this with the president yesterday. Rose and what was the conversation. He agrees with that. How to do it . That i think is important that we keep off the charlie ros