Transcripts For WCAU Dateline NBC 20140621

Reporter so why would police focus on her . The beautiful socialite, exwife number two. Shes very intoxicating. I think she was cold and calculating. Reporter maybe her former husband was worth more dead than alive . Its easy to blame the rich, beautiful woman. Shes the person Everybody Loves to hate. But she is completely innocent. Reporter or maybe it was someone else entirely. He was obsessed with gary triano. Obsessed with him. Its a case weve investigated for more than 5 years. Reporter now a stunning new end. We go back on the rollercoaster. Im lester holt and this is dateline. Heres Josh Mankiewicz with mystery on Sunrise Drive. Reporter spend a little time in tucson, arizona and here in the shadows of the majestic saguaros youll find a thriving metropolis of a Million People with a surprising small town feel. Its the kind of place where everyone seems to know everyone. And if you ask anyone from tucson where they were on nov. 1, 1996 theyll tell you it was the day of a murder so dramatic, so horrific, theyll never forget it. It was the story that everybody talked about. Reporter the explosive end of a man whod been larger than life. Gary had a presence. Gary had charisma. Reporter and the beginning of a mystery that would span nearly two decades. Never, ever felt that it reporter a tucson native, gary triano was a successful Real Estate Developer and entrepreneur. He was known around tucson for his big spending ways, his chauffered limousines and for rubbing elbows with folks like donald trump. I did it my way reporter like the song made famous by sinatra, the forceful and determined gary liked doing things his way. Was very, very brilliant. Reporter garys niece, Melissa Triano he had a wonderful personality that was sort of charismatic. And people were sort of drawn to him. Reporter melissa says her uncle made her see the value in herself. My father moved away when i was 17. I was, you know, sort of a lost child, if you will. And my uncle kind of helped me realize, you know, a lot of my skills and taught me a lot about the real estate industry. Was kind of a father figure . Sort of, yes. Reporter and gary was a loving father to five children. Four from his first two marriages. And a daughter with a woman hed dated named Robin Gardner. Gary was full of life. He was probably more full of life than anybody that i have ever, ever known. When i met gary, he was 21yearsolder than i, and we would go dancing, and we would go to the movies. And he was caring, and fun. And charming . Extremely charming. Reporter robin moved to tucson in her 20s from a small town in the appalachian mountains. Gary, she says, opened her eyes to a new way of life. Well, i had never eaten at a fivestar restaurant. I had never drank fine wine. I had never been on a private jet. Reporter and, robin says, gary was generous with the money hed made. Gary was a big giver, he was a big giver. I remember we were at a restaurant, and there was a waitress that really seemed like she she was struggling. He did a origami flower out of a hundred dollar bill, and he gave it to that waitress. And he did that not to showboat, he did it to be nice. He did it to be kind. Reporter and then came the day that changed everything. A nightmare come to life. It was late afternoon, november 1, 1996. Gary had just played a round of golf at a toptier Tucson Country Club called la paloma. He climbed into the Lincoln Town Car hed borrowed from a friend and was then instantly killed by a bomb that literally blew him to pieces, right there in the parking lot. Gary was just a few days shy of his 53rd birthday. Some of his friends were already at his home preparing for a surprise party. And my cousin heather kept paging me over and over again 911, 911. And i thought that it was because i was running late and she was tryin to figure out where i was. Reporter melissa called her aunt mary, garys first wife. My aunt mary answered the phone and then told me that they believed that my uncle had been killed. And that they knew this because they were watching it on tv and that it was his car. And i thought she was kidding. I i completely i i got angry and said, what are you talking about . This is as joke . This is not funny. And she said, no, its not a joke. Reporter melissa knew her uncle had planned to meet up with some friends at a local restaurant after his golf game. She called the bartender there. He answered the phone and i said, is my uncle there . Please tell me hes there. And he said, missy, im so sorry. Weve got it on tv. Im so sorry. He just kept saying, im so sorry. Thats a hell of a way to find out, by watchin the television. Yeah. They we found out by seeing it on the news. It was a very powerful bomb, very powerful explosion. Reporter melissa raced down Sunrise Drive to the scene. And i got out of the car and i i started running towards my uncles car. And detective gamber actually came running up and grabbed me and stopped me from getting closer. Reporter detective james gamber was one of the first at the scene. It was his second homicide case, ever. I was doing dishes after dinner and i got a call, theres been a car bombing at la paloma and you need to go up there. Reporter what he saw might have rattled a far more seasoned detective. The roof had been peeled off the car was laying behind the car. The windshield was gone. We found that, i think, the next day in the Swimming Pool of the country club. How far away . Id estimate it was probably 70 feet away and it had to go over some trees that were probably 20 feet tall. Im guessing that from, sort of, the get go, it was pretty clear that this wasnt any accident. This wasnt something wrong with gary trianos car. Correct. He was dead, what, instantly . Yes. Reporter the gold watch around gary trianos wrist froze in time at 5 38pm. His family and friends didnt know what to think. Who could have done this and why . The questions were just beginning. When we come back clues start to surface about the country club killer. The person who set off the bomb was watching gary triano get in his car . And the motive . What might that be . Follow the money. You always follow the money and you look at who benefitted from the death. Like 4 pizzas. We all get separate bills. Besides, if you dont like gordon why did you invite him this weekend . I didnt invite him. He just, like, shows up its pronounced gordon. Hey lets go those tacos arent going to eat themselves over there. Tacos you look great, by the way. The bills are separate . With the sprint unlimited framily plan, the more you add, the more you save. Unlimited framily plan get unlimited data, talk, and text for as low as 45 a month per line. Happy connecting from sprint. 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We need more teachers to lead future generations. The more you know. Reporter gary triano, the businessman, the father, the philanthropist, none of it made sense. He had just played a round of golf. Then, the man who loved living large died a spectacular death. I just was so in shock like the rest of my family, that this could happen at all. You dont wanna believe it, and you dont want to accept it. No one that i know its killed with a bomb. It was like somethin that was on television. Reporter it was a crime scene no one will soon forget. I just thought, oh my goodness. I cant believe this is happening in tucson, arizona. Reporter Lupita Murillo has covered tucson for nbc affiliate kvoa for nearly 36 years. She reported from la paloma the night of the bombing. People kill each other for all kinds of reasons. Youve probably covered uhhuh. Exactly. Dozens of these. But but a car explosion at a posh resort . Obviously, somebody wanted to make a statement. So this was a pretty powerful bomb. Yes. Reporter pima county sheriffs detective james gamber and an alphabet soup of investigative agencies including the fbi and atf started looking closely at the homemade bomb that had somehow found its way to gary trianos passenger seat. We were able to determine that device was a 17inch piece of pipe, about an inch and a half in diameter. Reporter the pipe was filled with explosive powder, and detonated by Remote Control. Using something thats normally meant to control boats, planes, that kind of thing . Correct. Remotecontrolled planes. Those those handheld planes . Yes. Reporter investigators determined that whoever operated that Remote Control was probably right there in the parking lot. So the person who set off the bomb was watching gary triano get in his car . We have every reason to believe that, and from the injury patterns, its its consistent that he actually was picking up the bag the device was in when it detonated. That would make me believe someones watching and theyre going, hes onto it. You know, we gotta detonate it now before he realizes what it is and has a chance to escape. Reporter clearly the killer had to know something about trianos daily routine. But, gamber soon discovered a lot of people did. He had virtually no sense of personal security. Hed never lock his car, wouldnt lock his house. So somebody with intel or information on garys lifestyle could easily have set him up. Reporter and it appeared someone had checked on garys whereabouts that day. What was interesting is the day of the murder, someone called and asked if he was playing golf. Man or woman . Man. Never identified. Reporter the very public spectacle of a car bombing at a posh resort made an impact on gambers boss, sheriff clarence dupnik. Ive never seen an assassination of this kind. If, in fact, it was a hit, it probably was a professional hit. Reporter could the sheriff be right . If so who hired the hitman . Who wanted triano dead . He was very flamboyant, and he was very outgoing and engaging. And he he ran in the real big circles. I mean, hes running around with donald trump and people like that. And he was throwing money around. Yes. And so when a flamboyant guy dies in a flamboyant way yup. People start thinking. You know, you tie him with big money, casinos, flamboyant lifestyle, and then, hes killed in a car bombing. Everybody makes this automatic assumption that that that has to be some mobrelated hit. Reporter and as investigators looked more closely into garys finances they saw only red ink. By the late 80s, the tucson Real Estate Market had crashed and garys bottom line took hit after hit. Investigators learned that in 1994, saddled with more than 26 million in debts he couldnt pay, gary triano had filed for bankruptcy. He had rolled the dice and lost. He owed money to casinos, banks, and the irs. And just one day before the bombing, a friend said an extremely anxious gary had come to him desperate for a 50 thousand dollar loan. He was tapped out . Yeah. When he died i understand that he had holes on the bottom of his soles in his shoes. Any indication that any of the people to whom he owed money, and there were a lot, were angry enough at him to do him any harm . No. I mean, there were people that openly said, he cost me money. He owed me money. But was it enough for me to kill him . No. Reporter well, not so fast. Detective gamber didnt know it at the time, but fbi agents following the same trail had heard the name neil mcneice. The bureau received a tip that mcneice had experience with high explosives and that he had access to them. And that he had a foul temper. And that he had a lot of money. But that wasnt the end of it. The bureau was also told that neil mcneice carried a profound hatred of gary triano. Detective gambers supervisor back then was keith st. John you had neil mcneices name from two different sources, one of em which was one of which was the f. B. I. Yes. And you never talked to him . No. Reporter it would be years before investigators realized how significant an omission that was. But theres no disputing that the neil mcneice tip was never followed up. And so investigators changed their focus, and looked away from gary trianos business relationships. You do two things. You go, lets follow the evidence. And you say, follow the money. You always follow the money in a homicide. And then, you look at who benefited from the death. Reporter investigators were now examining gary trianos closest personal ties. Was there someone closer to home to whom gary might have been worth more dead than alive . . I remember asking him, why would anybody wanna follow you . And he said, because of a Life Insurance policy. Reporter coming up the women in gary trianos life an exwives club. And an angry former girlfriend pretty unhappy at the breakup . Got fifa world cup fever . Come to mcdonalds and play peel. Play. Ole ole. You could win a trip to the 2014 fifa world cup finals match in brazil. Ba da ba ba ba reporter tucson Real Estate Developer gary trianos gruesome death by car bomb had a lot of people wondering just who his enemies really were. Investigators had been looking at garys business dealings, but started hitting one dead end after another. So they began scouring his personal life. Gary had lived large. It turned out he loved that way as well. And he was no angel. By the time of his death, garys name was already attached to two divorces and a trail of broken hearts. Hed left his first wife mary after two children and more than 20 years of marriage to wed a younger woman, pam phillips. Gary had two more children with her. After that marriage ended, gary dated Robin Gardner for two years, and that union produced a daughter, elliott. But gary and robin never married and had an angry breakup while robin was still pregnant. Gary even called 911 a year before his death to report that robin showed up uninvited to his home and threw a vase at him during an argument. Robin told the investigators shed thrown the vase at the ground after gary pushed her. And so investigators came knocking on robins door. Robin gardner was pretty unhappy at the breakup between she and gary triano . And we looked into robin, and i think her current husband put it best is that when robins mad, youre gonna know it. And whatevers gonna happen is gonna happen right now. He said, she basically its gonna be a street fight. And you were convinced that what . Although she was angry at gary triano, she wanted him alive . Yes, and i dont think she would have done that to their child. Reporter so investigators looked away from robin as a person of interest and moved on to some of the other women in garys life. Hed maintained a Good Relationship with his first wife mary after they divorced. And investigators eliminated her. That left his second exwife, pam phillips. Like gary, pam had also been married once before. The stunning blonde had a business degree from the university of arizona and was one of few women to find success working in commercial real estate in tucson the late 80s. Pam and gary seemed off to a good start back in 1986, with an expensive, blacktie wedding on a yacht at sunset off the coast of san diego. I know gary was mad about her. I was positive that he was madly in love with her. Reporter the wedding photographer, garys friend david bean they looked like they really did love each other and cared about each other. Reporter but reporter Lupita Murillo says behind pams back tucson was whispering. What did you hear about her . That she was a gold digger. That she married gary for his money. And that she broke up his marriage. Reporter its common for people on the outside to talk about the new wife that way. Remember, gary had left his first wife for pam and that alone sparked some anger in the triano family. Brian and heather are garys kids from his first marriage. And initially, they were less than thrilled about their father remarrying. Well, i mean, she was a stepmom. Lets be honest. We were teenagers at the time not happy about our parents getting divorced. Reporter but it was hard to deny that the marriage was working. When we saw em together, they were happy. And he seemed happy. They would always sing love songs. Reporter gary and pam had some very good years, says garys niece melissa. Oh, they were running around with, you know, donald trump, marla maples. They were friends with lee majors. And just taking really extravagant trips. Money flowin like water. Yeah. Reporter gary helped pam launch an astrology website starbabies. Com. The site was designed to give parents an astrological reading about their children. It was a business pam started after her children trevor and lois were born. What you say trev . Cow. Reporter heather and brian say those new babies brought them closer to their new stepmother. We grew to like her, then love her as a stepmom and mother of our brother and sister. She was great. Like i said, she was very sweet. And i think also being a girl, you know, shed help me fix my hair, or get some clothes or new purses, shoes, things like that girly stuff. But by the early 90s, garys fortunes had faded and with it his marriage to pam. They were done after just seven years. He said that once, you know, i can understand, i just dont have the money that she was used to us having. Reporter pam moved to aspen after the divorce and the oncehappy couple started fighting over just about everything. There was an ongoing legal battle over, you know, the Child Support and she wanted it increased. And she was convinced that he was hiding assets and he used the bankruptcy to shield himself from having to pay increased Child Support. Reporter which, to some, was ironic. I was basically mr. Mom. Reporter pams former nanny, kevin mcdonald. And i was taking care of trevor and and lois for seven days a week. And day and night. Reporter and according to him, pam was too busy shopping to take care of her kids. Shopping, that is, for a new husband. And she wasnt apologetic about it. With all of her expenses, she was getting worried. Because she said, you know, kevin, im down to my last 60,000, you know. And, what should i do . And i said, get a job. Reporter but kevin says she was focused on finding a man with a job a good one. She wanted to find a husband that was worth at least 20 million. Thats what she told me, worth 20 million. So the pam that people say married gary triano for his money hadnt changed except zip codes . Yes. A zip code and weather. Reporter but while pam was looking for the right deal in aspen. Back in tucson, gary triano was feeling uneasy. Gary said, i think were being followed. I just thought, youre starting to scare me, dude. Reporter taylor shoberg, his girlfriend at the time, says gary was convinced someone was tailing them in the car. I remember asking him, why would anybody wanna follow you . And he said, because of a Life Insurance policy. Reporter turns out gary was insured for 2 Million Dollars. His children, trevor and lois, were the beneficiaries. But until they turned 18, the money was controlled by their mother, pam. Theyd gone through a nasty divorce. Yes. There was child custody battles, visitation battles. So, i mean it so itd be natural that youd be looking at her. Yes. Reporter but, gambers investigation showed pam was in aspen, not tucson, on the day of the murder. And pam the socialite certainly seemed more bombshell than bomb maker. Im guessing pam phillips probably was not somebody that you thought was tinkering around on her workbench building a pipe bomb . No. Reporter gamber and his team seemed to be at another dead end until an alert detective 800 miles away happened to catch a news report about the bombing and some bells went off. Coming up a new man in pams life. I found a note in the car. What could that have fordo with the murder of gary triano . [ door knock ] did you say bounty paper towels are the best . Love it. Theyre a must . Yes, i did. This is viva® vantage, and its different because of the stretch. Wow, thats awesome. That stretch means scrubbing power. I never knew paper towels could do that. [ abbey ] new viva® vantage. The towel more people prefer. [ abbey ] new viva® vantage. Great rates for great rides. Geico motorcycle, see how much you could save. Its how i look at life. 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Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Those three Important Reasons are why im shooting for Something Better. Eliquis. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor today if eliquis is right for you. Reporter aspen, colorado a yearround playground for the rich and famous. And sometimes for the people who prey on them. Thats the kind of case that then aspen Police Detective jim crowley caught back in 1996. Two local businesses said theyd been defrauded by a man named ron young. What the scam was is that he would become your business manager, help you grow the company. And he actually did that part of it. But at some point, he would you know, hed have all your credit information. So he would apply for credit cards in your name, add himself as a signer. Use those credit cards to pay off his personal bills. As far you could tell, hes stolen how much money . Probably between 80 and 120 thousand dollars. Reporter but before detective crowley could get an arrest warrant, ron young disappeared. He knew you were on his trail . Right. And he skipped town . Yes. Reporter young fled in a rented minivan that later turned up in southern california. Young himself was nowhere to be found. But what was found in the minivan was very curious. A note in the car that was kind of like a laundry list, you know, buy toothpaste and then down the list a little further was saw off shotgun. Reporter ron young was not known as a violent criminal but when police found a shotgun and a taser in the car, it made detective crowley aware that a man wanted for whitecollar crimes might possibly be more dangerous than he thought. In ron youngs minivan investigators found Something Else peculiar paperwork related to the divorce of Pamela Phillips and gary triano. And at the time, the name gary triano meant what to you . Nothing. Reporter but pam phillips that was a name crowley had heard before. He knew her as another Aspen Resident who claimed shed been ripped off by ron young. Pam said ron had stolen money from her business star babies. Com. Did she have a case . We dont know because she never came back and she refused to answer my calls after that. So she came and made a complaint and backed off. Backed off. And never told you why. No. Reporter pams former nanny, kevin mcdonald, remembers that for a while at least pam and ron seemed close. Ron would come over at least two or three times a week. And on some of those nights, pam would cook for him, have romantic dinners and fullon candlelight and music. Reporter although, kevin says, ron didnt seem to be pams type. Ron didnt have any money. He was not a socialite. And, you know, thats what she generally went for. Reporter so what exactly was pams relationship with ron young . And why wouldnt pam cooperate with police . Did she want to protect ron . Or was she afraid of him . Crowley didnt know what to make of it all. And then about a month after ron youngs van was found the detective happened to read about the car bombing death of gary triano. I was aware that gary was pams exhusband. And i was also aware that pam had some kind of relationship with ron young and that ron young had fled the area. So thats what prompted me to call down to tucson. Reporter detectives gamber and st. John were there when the call came into the pima county sheriffs dept in tucson. It certainly got investigators attention. Especially when they learned more about what was found in that van. There was a map of tucson and handwritten notes with the names and types of cars driven by some of gary trianos business associates, family and friends including his niece melissa and his one time girlfriend taylor. And there was more. And then we found a receipt for a hotel here in tucson where ron young stayed in this hotel for 18 days during the summer of 1996. Which would be, what, a few months before gary triano was killed . Yeah. And what was interesting about his choice of hotels, it was geographically almost halfway between where gary triano lived and the la paloma country club. Where he played golf every day . Yes. Reporter and, even more suspicious, ron young stayed under a phony name. The name of one of the people he was accused of defrauding in aspen. But that was well before the murder and there was no evidence young was in tucson when the bomb went off. Anything in ron youngs record or possession that suggested that he either knew how to or was involved in building a remotecontrol bomb . No. And hes got no history of working with explosives. Thats correct. Reporter still gamber and his team desperately wanted to talk with ron young. Aspen police was looking for him. They had an active fugitive case going on him because they had a fraud warrant. But he basically just fell off the face of the earth. Reporter who was ron young . And what was his relationship with pam phillips . Nine days after the murder of her exhusband, pam phillips agreed to come down to the Sheriffs Department for an interview. And that conversation was recorded. I wanted to ask you about your relationship with ron young . Reporter coming up she knew she was going to be scrutinized. Pam phillips date with detectives. 2 million reasons to be suspicious . We have this issue of this Life Insurance policy. Gary is the one that took it out. Things with the new guy . All we do is go out to dinner. Thats it . I mean, he picks up the tab every time, which is great. What . Hes using you. He probably has a Citi Thankyou card and gets 2x the points at restaurants. So hes just racking up points with me. Some people. Ugh no, ive got it. The Citi Thankyou preferred card. Now earn 2x the points on dining out and entertainment, with no annual fee. To apply, go to citi. Com thankyoucards glass on floors. Daily chores. For the little mishaps you feel use neosporin to help you heal. It kills germs so you heal four days faster. Neosporin. Buy three Johnson Johnson first aid products and get a free bag. Buy three Johnson Johnson first aid products [ male announcer ] if you cant stand the heat, get off the test track. Get the mercedesbenz youve been burning for at the summer event, going on now at your authorized mercedesbenz dealer. Hurry, before this opportunity cools off. Reporter gary trianos violent death by car bomb had set the tucson rumormill on overdrive. But according to local nbc reporter Lupita Murillo an awful lot of fingers were pointed in a same direction. Within 24 hours after the dust settled the word that i was getting was that it was his former wife and it was because of this insurance policy. Reporter pam phillips, garys ex, was someone investigators wanted to talk with. Especially after word came from aspen that pam had been connected in some way to a fugitive on the run from fraud charges named ron young. Nine days after the murder, investigators got their chance. Pam phillips voluntarily came in for questioning. I didnt give pam a lot of what i knew. I let her talk and i let her give me what she wanted to give me. Reporter detective keith st. John spoke with pam three times twice in person. For the record would you tell me your full name . Pamela ann phillips. Reporter he asked pam to talk about her relationship with gary, starting with how they met. Was he already divorced . No. Uh uh, he was married. Happily married. Tell me about pams demeanor during those meetings. She knew she was gonna be scrutinized. I made it clear, right from the beginning, that we had to deal with the 2 million Life Insurance policy. We have this issue of this Life Insurance policy. She talked to me about how the payments were being made. When the policy was taken out, and she seemed like she was upfront. Garys the one that took this out and he also insisted that it be in my name. Reporter they discussed who out there might be angry at gary gary had so many business dealings any insight you can give us on those. Hes had so many enemies, you know. Reporter to st. John, nothing really stood out about those interviews. Until, that is, he asked pam about ron young. Okay. Um, somethin thats come up that i wanted to ask you about. Is, um, is your relationship with ron young . Yeah. Uh. Dont really have a relationship with ron young. Okay. Tell me, tell me what it is then. He, uh, uh, hes a guy from aspen. God, howd his name come up . Reporter st. John felt he might have thrown pam off her game. Were trying to get out and do our best on this. Wow. Uh, hes a guy, uh, uh, from aspen that did some, uh, financial stuff for me. Are you aware that theres an arrest warrant out for him . No. And when was the last time you had any dealings with him . Um, well, its been a long time, i mean since basically uh since he was doing, you know, work for me. Reporter and pam denied ever having a romantic relationship with ron. And you never were boyfriend, girlfriend, or no. Had an affair . No, no, no. In my opinion, she minimized it. Oh hes just a person that did some work for me, i havent seen him in months. Not, a guy that i was involved with . No. Not, a guy that i accused of defrauding me, but when the cops came to me i refused to sign the complaint . Correct. Reporter but despite pams startled reaction to the ron young question, detective st. John had nothing else on her. Nothing placing her or ron young, for that matter in tucson on the day of the murder. And nothing connecting either one of them to the bomb that killed gary triano. After three interviews, other than this thing with ron young, and we didnt have him to talk to, there really wasnt anything that i thought that made her rise to a level of a suspect. Reporter and ron young was still somewhere in the wind. So safe to say this goes cold . Yes. Reporter in january of 1997, pam phillips received her Life Insurance payment. 2 million, plus interest. Did that insurance money give pam back the lifestyle that shed lost when gary triano went bankrupt . For a short while, yes. Two Million Dollars doesnt go very far in aspen. Reporter pam bought herself a house. A Million Dollar fixer upper. And with her exquisite taste, turned it into a beautiful house. Reporter in fact, her deck was featured in the glossy Aspen Sojourner magazine. Pam was dabbling in Aspen Real Estate and trying to make starbabies. Com a success. To help with the website, she invited garys daughter heather triano to come live with her in aspen. It was a company my father purchased for her when they were married. So, i felt like, oh, this is great, this is something my father started. Ill come and restart it cause it sort of wasnt developed. Reporter during the time heather lived with pam she took care of her younger halfsiblings, but she never once had a discussion with pam about garys unsolved murder. We didnt talk about it. She was basically a member of your family, at least for a while, and clearly felt very close to the two of you. And she never once said, heres what i think happened . No. No, i dont think so. Reporter through the years, heather and brian maintained their relationship with pam, even as they had families of their own. She was at my wedding. Yeah, she was at my wedding and were were friends. Reporter but garys niece melissa couldnt help but suspect that pam had something to do with her uncles murder. In my mind the only person that had anything to gain from him dying was pam. There was really a rift in your family, wasnt there . There were some people who believed that pam could never have done anything like this and there were other people who suspected it. Yeah. Yeah. Reporter garys exgirlfriend robin moved back to virginia in 2000 to raise their daughter, elliott. He was a great father to all four of his other children. And elliott missed that experience. My daughter was a victim. Reporter for nearly a decade gary trianos friends and family waited and hoped for an answer. As time went by and there werent any arrests, whatd you think . Maybe im wrong about pam . Maybe thisll never be solved . No. I think part of me thought that in time it would all be found out and that it just wasnt time yet. Reporter and detectives waited, too. Until one day in 2005 when a tip came in from two thousand miles away. Coming up i helped you on something that was beyond what anybody else in the world would probably do. Reporter secret tapes are about to turn a cold case piping hot. The tapes turned out to be a goldmine. If you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, like me, and youre talking to your rheumatologist about a biologic. This is humira. 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He paid my claim in just four days. Four days . Wow its no accident aflac pays fast. Find out how fast at aflac. Com and remember,accidents dont hurt as much when you have aflac. Better. They had deep suspicions about ron young an accused conman with a murky connection to pam. But investigators couldnt even find him. It looked as if the case might stay cold forever. And then, in 2005 the t. V. Show americas most wanted featured the triano case and focused on the fugitive, ron young. If youve seen him please call our hotline now. And that works. It took about 19 hours. Reporter after nine years on the lam, ron young was fingered in florida by a most unlikely tipster. His chiropractor recognized him and called americas most wanted and a Broward County Fugitive Team went out and picked him up. He had a scheduled appointment. So they waited for him to show up at his chiropractors office. Reporter betrayed by a bad back ron young was now in the hands of authorities. Americas most wanted was there when ron was arrested on the old fraud charges and illegal possession of a handgun an atf officer sat down with him for an interview. Did you have anything to do with that bombing . No. I had no reason to blow up anybody or kill anybody. But the big advantage to catching ron young wasnt what he said in that interview, was it . No. The big advantage to catching ron young is he collected all our evidence for us. Reporter inside ron youngs apartment and storage locker investigators found a computer with saved emails, fedex tracking receipts from aspen and a stash of audiotaped conversations that young had apparently recorded in secret in the years following the murder. Conversations with none other than pam phillips. The computer and the tapes turned out to be the goldmine. Reporter investigators began to play tape after tape looking for anything that would shed light on their investigation. And on those tapes they heard ron young threatening pam. There is plenty of stuff that i could literally dig out the ground. And uh, youre, you know, a fried duck. Reporter tense, mysterious conversations about banks and money. I just cant deal with this. Id rather die. Than what . Than sit here and deal with like, things like going to the bank, which is totally illegal, every single week. I am not going to do it. What do you mean its illegal . I am giving money to somebody i am not spending it. Im giving money and i am not declaring it, and you are getting money and are you declaring it . No, you ge you are completely confused on that. Reporter and talk of some kind of preexisting deal between the two of them. I am not going to keep sending you more and more and more money unless i know that you can honor our agreement. Reporter it all started to add up especially when they looked on rons computer. And found a detailed schedule of payments from pam. Payments that were made carefully and surreptiously, using a cryptic code the two had devised. Im really happy that your 1. 6 was tax free. He talks about, you got your 1. 6, i want my four, which conveniently adds up to two million which matches the insurance payout. Theres nothing on those tapes in which ron young says, you hired me for x amount of money to put a bomb in your husbands car. Its not said directly. But when you piece all the conversations together, that is said. I also, helped you on something that was you know, beyond what anybody else in the world would probably do. Reporter and perhaps the most damning piece of evidence when you sit in a womens prison for murdering. When you sit in a womens prison for murder. Im gonna hang up, ill be back at four. And as far as i know the only murder in pam phillips life was the murder of gary triano. When you listened to the tapes, and you looked at the documents that you found in ron youngs possession, what arrangement did that spell out . Basically that he was entitled to 400,000 of the 2 million Life Insurance policy, and he was using pam as his bank. He was earning 4 interest on his 400,000. Why would somebody who committed a murder for hire keep detailed records that would essentially prove their own involvement and that of the person that hired them . I think for two reasons. One, if your your ego is that big that you think youre not gonna get caught, youre too smart to get caught. And two, youre saving it as evidence or as a threat something to hold over your coconspirators head. In case she stops paying . Yes. Reporter ron young was sentenced to 10 months in federal prison on gun possession charges. The fraud charges were eventually dismissed. Detectives still didnt have enough to charge young with garys murder. But they did have enough to turn up the heat on pam. We went up to aspen and filed for a search warrant and ultimately searched pams house. Reporter but in pams home, they didnt find anything related to ron young or to the bomb. Absolutely nothing related to the murder. Reporter so, once again despite their suspicions they couldnt charge pam phillips with any crime. And before long the woman who loved the good life would find herself in the ultimate lap of luxury. A world away from both aspen and tucson. Coming up a brand new mystery where was pam phillips . Pams disappeared. We dont know where she is anymore. She can be anywhere in the world. Theyre asking me to pull a rabbit outta my hat. I dont think i have any more rabbits reporter when dateline continues. Life begins at 5 01, and when to choose our battles. For over 25 years, the petloving associates at petsmart have helped you create more moments like these, while giving back to the community, saving over 5 million lives, and bringing people and pets together. At petsmart, were in it to create more moments like these everyday. Petsmart®. Inspired by pets. Start with the best writing experience. . Make it incredibly thin. Add an adjustable kickstand, a keyboard, a usb port, and the freedom of touch. And, of course, make it run microsoft office, with the power and speed to do real work. Introducing surface pro 3. The tablet that can replace your laptop. Era famoso por vivir de una now investigators are looking at his exwife the beautiful socialite Pamela Phillips. Could she somehow be involved . Reporter for gary trianos children heather and brian, it was impossible to believe that their former stepmother could have anything to do with their fathers murder. I was her friend. I was her friend and i lived with her. So, no, i didnt think she was a suspect at all. Reporter then they read the search warrant affidavit which detailed the audio taped conversations between pam phillips and ron young. When you sit in a womens prison for murdering. When you sit in a womens prison for murder. And its at that point that we realized something was wrong. That this that the whole thing wasnt right. What was it like for you to read that this woman who had been your step mother and then later your friend you thought very good friend. Was implicated in your fathers murder. I wanted to throw up. Reporter in november of 2007, eleven years after the murder, heather and brian, along with garys youngest daughther, elliott, filed a wrongfuldeath civil lawsuit against pam phillips and ron young. Robin gardner, elliotts mom the point of that wrongful death suit was not to recover any actual money from pam . Idea was, what, to serve some subpoenas and maybe get the investigation going . It had came to just a slow halt. And it just seemed as if it was as cold as cold could be. So the children got together and, as you said, not for revenue but to simply get the ball rolling. Reporter despite all the evidence investigators had uncovered in ron youngs possession, prosecutors in tucson still didnt feel there was enough to charge either ron young or pam phillips with murder. Why do you think prosecutors didnt wanna bring the case . I dont know if there was an official reason or if it was a reluctance on just the sheer size of the case, how big this case was, would it be a career ender case. So no one ever gave me a solid answer. Frustrating. A little bit, yes. Reporter but the civil suit changed things. Prosecutors decided it was time to move. You think the wrongful death suit sort of, what, guilted prosecutors into Going Forward . Or it showed them the how valid the case was. Reporter nearly a year after the civil suit was filed, in october 2008, ron young, who was out of prison after serving 10 months on the gun posession charges, was rearrested in california this time for the murder of gary triano. Young was flown back to tucson. Lupita murillo is one of those people who like to greet visitors at the airport. So mr. Young, how does it feel to be back in tucson, sir . Not so good, id rather not be. Did you kill gary triano, sir . Did you place that bomb . No, of course not. Wheres Pamela Phillips . Is she your accomplice . Reporter where was pam phillips . It turns out she may have outsmarted everyone. By leaving the United States just a month before authorities filed arrest warrants for her and ron. She took what we believe was an innocent trip to switzerland to visit her daughter. And she just decided, what, im not coming back . I think when the news broke she probably made a conscious decision itd be best for her to stay in europe. Reporter but if you think she was living a rough life as a fugitive, think again. Our cameras caught it firsthand when dateline tracked her down in february 2009 we found her living in the beautiful lakeside town of lugano, switzerland, the area is known as switzerlands version of monte carlo. Pam and garys daughter lois, just a little girl when gary died, was now a College Student there. We discovered pam living in a fivethousanddollar a month apartment and shed made a new friend, a wellheeled widower with whom shed often dine overlooking the lake at this fivestar hotel. Maybe it was proof that if you do enough shopping, sometimes you find exactly what youre looking for. Just basically living a very affluent lifestyle. She didnt need to work apparently. Reporter back in pam phillips former country of residence, in november 2009, three of gary trianos children won their wrongful death suit against pam. A judge ordered her to pay them ten Million Dollars. But garys family and friends wondered, would they ever see pam return to the United States to face charges . Because by then detective gamber had learned pam was no longer in switzerland. And its like i told heather, i said, pams disappeared. We dont know where she is anymore. She can be anywhere in the world. And i said, the sheriff told me to find her. And i said, you know, so theyre asking me to pull a rabbit out of my hat. And i said, i dont think i have any more rabbits. You were feeling defeated. Yes. And whatd you think, she you youre never gonna see pam phillips again. Yes. Reporter coming up i think she was cold and calculating. So calculating she could elude the cops . The worldwide hunt for the socialite suspect is on. She had thought she had gotten away with this all day and all of the night the kinks all day and all of the night the kinks yoplait. With a smooth and creamy taste your whole family loves. It is so good all the time. Taking in the scenery and hey, theyre taking our stuff, no need to panic. Walgreens has over 8,000 Stores Across the country with all your prescriptions on file and just about anything else you might need along the way. Because you never know what the road will bring. So swing by walgreens today for all your summer musthaves like snacks and sunscreen, right here. At the corner of happy and healthy. Like snacks and sunscreen, right here. musica pam wasnt in arizona. Or the United States. Or switzerland, where shed been living. Like a femme fatale in an old movie, she had left town, with no forwarding address. And that was one of the frustrations is she was in the European Union where there theres basically no borders. You know, its not like she has to go through immigration and customs. She just she can move. Reporter but investigators in europe were cooperating with the u. S. Authorities and they started tracking pams cell phone. Reporter so even though you didnt know where she was, the authorities that were there were still hot on the case . Yes. Reporter they kept checking the records and looking for pam. And in december, 2009, more than a year after she went on the lam, they found her in austria. Detective gamber received the news from over seas and realized he wasnt out of rabbits after all. A coded message that said, shes in custody in vienna and do you wanna extradite her . Was was like a oneword response, yes. Reporter but pam would spend some time waiting in an austrian jail, first, while her accused coconspirator ron young stood trial. In february 2010, prosecutors presented their case against young to a jury. They argued that young planted the bomb that killed gary triano, and that pam phillips paid him to do it. Everything he was saying, everything you heard, reeks of conspiracy. It reeks of two people who were so cold and so greedy that they believe nothing else matters. Reporter garys niece, melissa, testified and learned for the first time that her name had been on a list found in ron youngs abandoned van. It was alarming. It was horrifying. Reporter the defense argued pams payments to ron were just extortion, blackmail, and that there was no evidence tying ron young to a bomb or placing him in tucson on the day of the murder. You have a laundry list of alternative suspects in this case that make just as much sense as blaming ron young. Reporter the jury, however, didnt buy it. We the jury find the defendant ronald kelly young guilty. Reporter in march of 2010, ron young was found guilty of first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. He was sentenced to life in prison. And just two months later pam phillips was extradited back to the United States. You can guess who was there to welcome her back. What do you say to the triano family, to garys Adult Children . What do you say to your own children who dont have a father and whose mother is going to be in the pima county jail . Reporter but lupitas wasnt the only face pam saw at the airport. What was it like to see pam come back to tucson to face trial . Its gratifying. She got off the plane about 10 00 at night. And she wasnt happy to see me. Reporter also present, Melissa Triano. Why was it important for you to be there . I think because she had thought that shed gotten away with this. And i think that we wanted her to see that we knew that she hadnt. Reporter there she was on full display. The former socialites chauffered limo was now a pima county sheriffs car. Garys youngest child, elliott, was just 7 months old when her father was killed. By now she was beginning to understand more about how her father died and who might have done it and why. When you heard that pam was accused of having your father murdered for a 2 million insurance policy, whatd you think . I dont know what its like to live the kind of life that she was living, but i know what its like to grow up without having my dad around, like, my biological dad. Arizona vs. Pamela ann phillips. This is your arraignment. Those are your charges. Reporter pam phillips pleaded not guilty to charges of murder and conspiracy to commit murder. Veteran Pima County Attorney Rick Unklesbay was assigned to prosecute the case. She married gary for his money we believe. She divorced him for the same reason. He was he was bankrupt at the time. You think she also killed him for his money . Right. The sense one gets of pam from you guys is of somebody whos kind of a human calculator. I think calculators an apt description. She was, i think she was cold and calculating. She used men for her benefit. And ultimately she used gary for her benefit. Reporter but it would take years before prosecutors would actually get to try the case. As it meandered through the legal system motion after motion. For a time, pam was ruled mentally incompetent to stand trial. She told at least one doctor someone had been watching and listening to her for years and she believed she had tracking devices placed in her passport and her head. But by late 2012, the judge said she was fit to proceed. I think the police got tunnel vision with regard to this investigation. Reporter the woman whod lived the good life now had a courtappointed attorney. Her name is alicia cata. Pam phillipss been variously described as a narcissist, gold digger and ultimately ruthless, coldblooded murderer. Youre shaking your head no. How do you describe her . I would describe her of a mother of two who worked hard, who tried to make a life for herself. Did pam phillips want gary triano dead . No, absolutely not. No. He was the father of her children and she wanted him to be involved in the childrens lives. Its not crazy that police looked at pam. No, no. Absolutely not. No. You know, theyd had this contentious relationship. Pam got some serious money out of that insurance settlement. Pam later was found to be associating with a guy who Police Believe was actually responsible for planting the bomb. There is absolutely no physical evidence linking ronald young to that murder or to that bomb, nothing whatsoever. And yet he was convicted. Exactly. Its a statement of how powerful an accusation can be. People now have to prove their innocen innocence. People are presumed guilty because the press puts it out there. Though this is our fault well, partly, partly. Yes. People are now presumed guilty. And thats the hurdle that the defense has to try to overcome reporter and so alicia cata and her team set about overcoming that hurdle. Preparing a vigorous defense for pam phillips as their client readied to face a jury more than seventeen years after the murder. Coming up so many years of suspicion but where was the evidence . Wasnt ron youngs dna . It was not. Wasnt pam phillips dna . It was not. The only thing they had were those tapes and that was it. Reporter and pam phillips had an answer for that, too im living in total fear. Reporter when dateline continues. [ male announcer ] are you so stuffed up, you feel like youre underwater . Try zyrtecd® to powerfully clear your blocked nose and relieve your other allergy symptoms. So you can breathe easier all day. Zyrtecd®. Find it at the pharmacy counter. Finally, the purple pill, the 1 prescribed acid blocking brand. Comes without a prescription for frequent heartburn. Get complete protection. Nexium level protection. [ mathey can see the lightes. Eof a single candle. Look after them with centrum silver. Multivitamins for your eyes, heart and brain. Centrum silver. For the most amazing parts of you. Febrero del 2014, mas de 17 and right from the start pams defense team insisted that Police Rushed to judgment. Its a lot easier to go after the exwife who collected two Million Dollars. Its easy. Thats the low hanging fruit. Reporter in his opening statement, attorney Paul Eckerstrom defended not just pam, but her alleged coconspirator as well. The evidence youre gonna hear, is gonna convince you not only my client is innocent but that ron young is innocent. Reporter the defense insisted there was nothing placing ron young or pam phillips in tucson on the day of the murder. If youre gonna do a bombing, you gotta come in and do the bombing. And they have no evidence whatsoever of that. Reporter and, says pams attorney alicia cata, there was no proof ron even knew how to build a bomb theres no evidence he had the ability. Theres no evidence he had the knowledge. Theres nothing in his van or his in any of the any of the stuff they found on his computer. Its not like he had a workshop in his garage and tinkered on the weekends. And he had a slight tremor in his hands. He didnt have the ability to do this. Not at all. Reporter and this defense expert analyzed some trace dna found on the bomb parts. My conclusion is that Ronald Youngs markers arent present. Wasnt ron youngs dna . It was not. And it wasnt pam phillips dna . It was not. Thats correct. Reporter but there was all that Evidence Police discovered in his van a month before the murder. Maps of tucson, paperwork related to pam and garys divorce, a notepad with names of some of garys friends and family and a receipt showing ron spent 18 mysterious days in tucson the summer before the murder under a fake name. What was all that about . He was looking to help pam get more Child Support by investigating the Hidden Assets of gary triano. Thats why he was here. There was a notebook containing a few names of People Associated with gary. You know why . Because he was thinking gary mightve put his vehicle in his nieces name. Gary mightve put his vehicle in his girlfriends name. Reporter but why use an assumed name during his tucson visit . He was already on the run from the police in aspen, colorado. He was hiding at that point. Reporter and as for the theory that pam killed gary for the two Million Dollars in Life Insurance . Nonsense, says her attorney. Pam had wanted to let go of the insurance policy about a year prior. Reporter a friend of pams testified that she took over the payments on the policy because pam was short on money. The judge would not allow us to show the friends face. It was about 600 dollars a month and she felt that that was one piece that she could be rid of and stop doing. And i said, absolutely not. And if you cant pay for it now, i will. But you need to have the security for you for the kids. Reporter and the friend told the jury she actually forgot to make the last two payments on the insurance policy before gary was killed. Which you think is significant why . Well, because she testified at trial that pam never asked her again about the insurance policy. It never came up in any in any conversation with her. She just let it go. So if pam was killing gary for the insurance money, she wouldve said something to her friend like, you made those last payments, right exactly. Reporter but then how to explain the recorded phone calls between pam and ron, the discussion of the payments . Im really happy that 1. 6 was tax free. Reporter the threats there is plenty of stuff that i could dig literally dig out of the ground. Reporter and talk of prison time when you sit in a womens prison for murdering. When you sit in a womens prison for murder. Reporter the defense argued ron was extorting pam with threats of ruining her reputation in aspen. And im living in total fear. Well, because it would get in the paper and itd be an embarrassment to you. Im living in total fear. I think he was trying to threaten her by saying, look, you see all these things that are in the press right now with regard to, you know, youre you being a suspect in this murder. Im gonna make sure that it goes into the front page of the aspen times. Hes blackmailing her even though she didnt do anything wrong. She did not do anything wrong. She was concerned about her reputation because the reputation is everything in the business that she did. Okay. Lets follow that out. And even though she hadnt committed any crime, even though she didnt hire ron young or anybody else to kill her husband, what, she couldnt go to the police when she got extorted . Do you know how many people dont go to the police when theyre being extorted . Somebody threatens to frame me for a murder that i had absolutely nothing to do with and wreck my reputation, the police is the first phone call im making. There are many, many people who get extorted, who get blackmailed. And they basically just want to make the problem go away. Reporter and so rather than go to the police, pam continued making payments to ron young. The only thing they had were those tapes. And that was it. And those were the words of a person trying to get money from another person. Thats it. Thats not a criminal conspiracy in the wake of pam having hired ron to kill gary. That was after the fact. After the murder, not before. They dont have a single thing, a single shred of evidence of conspiracy before the fact. Reporter but if pam and ron did not conspire to kill gary triano, did not carry it out, well, then, who did . You are about to hear one wild story, of a man Police Never Checked out. A man who had the means, the motive and apparently the desire to kill gary triano. Coming up he was koekd out of his mind and about as evil as they come. Could he be the real killer . Thats what built manufacturing in america. And its what were rebuilding. You can see it happening in small towns where factories are pumping life back into communities. And we are once again calling the shots. So, enjoy the holiday. And then, lets go to work. You could be hanging ten. What are you waiting for . Seize the summer with up to 40 off hotels from travelocity. Love it. Theyre a must . Yes, i did. This is viva® vantage, and its different because of the stretch. Wow, thats awesome. That stretch means scrubbing power. I never knew paper towels could do that. [ abbey ] new viva® vantage. The towel more people prefer. Reporter on the 8th floor of the pima county courthouse. Pam phillips attorneys were pleading her case. Prosecutors, they said, had it all wrong. Not only was pam not guilty. But there was real evidence someone else committed this crime. And the man the defense pointed at has a name you might recall, a lead that came up early in the Murder Investigation one that was never pursued. Neil mcneice. Well, he was coked out of his mind and he was about as evil as they come. Reporter this is Lawrence Patrick dantonio a doctor of osteopathic medicine. He sat down with us to share the extraordinary tale he told the jury about neil mcneice. A man dantonio says suffered from a couple of maladies. One, serious drug addiction, and the other one was exceeding wealth. Reporter dr. Dantonio says he first met mcniece around 1989. And says neils mother paid him to block off his schedule and look after her son, who was at the time addicted to heroin and cocaine. He had a very sweet type of humble personality when he wasnt on drugs. But then when he would use . 180degree change. Very paranoid, blamed all of his problems on select people, and then went after them with a vengeance. Reporter and there was his storage locker full of weapons. It was all military weapons, was all m16s, militarized shot guns. And you could see hand grenades layin on the ground. Reporter and his use of dynamite for sport. And he throws dynamite like fire crackers. Reporter and then there was the company he kept. Dr. Dantonio says that in the early 90s neil was hanging around with Anti Government militia types in montana. And then right after the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, neils girlfriend showed up at dantonios house. And she swore up and down that she felt he was involved in this financially. So at this point wait, so you neils girlfriend told you that she thought neil had bankrolled the Oklahoma City bombing . Yes. Reporter dr. Dantonio even called an fbi hotline to report neil. Theres no indication the bureau found any link between neil and the bombing but the fbi did eventually contact dantonio when they were investigating mcneice for Something Else mcneice found himself a defendant in a federal wiretapping case, accused of extorting money from a man whod been his friend. Mcneice ultimately pleaded guilty to receiving the proceeds of extortion and was sentenced to two years probation. And why was any of this relevant in the murder trial of pam phillips . Because, says doctor dantonio, his frightening acquaintance, neil mcniece had a history of bad blood with none other than gary triano. It started, the doctor says, after mcniece and triano agreed to purchase an item together at a charity auction. Gary didnt have any money to pay. So neil paid, and he was supposed to pay neil 50 later. And of course, he didnt pay him. Reporter and then, some years later, around 1991, gary tried to get neil to go into business with a high flying real estate mogul. And their meetings were held not in a board room, but in a series of limousines. Because they could keep neil captive audience in the limousine. Reporter dantonio says gary triano wanted a finders fee for the arrangement. But in the meantime triano had to pay for all the wining and dining and it was very costly. Reporter and there in the limousine, dantonio says gary asked neil for a loan using pam phillips wedding ring as collateral. And this was a magnificent ring. It was had two appraisals that i remember, one about 235,000, the other close to 250,000. And he wanted an 80,000 cash loan. Reporter the doctor says neil agreed but he ended up with a cubic zirconia, worth about 7,000 to 8,000. Gary triano switched the ring on him . At some point. Thats when neil lost it towards gary triano. He was berserk. And and he was so obsessed with with gary, he he immediately started to declare he was gonna kill him. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You heard him say that . Yeah, many times. Many, many, many times. Neil said he was gonna kill gary oh, in the triano . Hundreds to maybe thousands of times. Hes obsessed with gary triano. Obsessed with him. Reporter and that was the case the defense made to the jury. They argued neil mcneice had the means and the motive and the stated desire to kill gary triano. Any evidence that that investigators ever looked at this guy as a possible suspect . No. No. They ignored this whole line of investigation completely. Completely. Reporter the defense even connected neil to a potential bombmaker his close friend Jerry Capuano happened to be a master woodworker and handyman. And one of jerrys hobbies was he was a avid radiocontrol airplane operator. And he would build his planes from scratch. Reporter using the same types of components found in the bomb that killed gary triano. Before the trial, the defense inspected Jerry Capuanos former woodshop. The new owner allowed us to go into the shop. And we found items in that shop that all everything there was could have been used to build a bomb. Cut pipe, wires servo units for the for the model plane. I mean, and this is something they could have found in 1997. Reporter theres just one problem with this defense theory its pretty hard to check out. Wheres mr. Capuano now . He died. And neil mcneice is dead. Right. So these guys are kinda the perfect thirdparty defense for you well thats true. Theyre dead. They cant stand up and call you a liar. But the evidence is what it is. The evidence is there. Reporter and the defense argued, dr. Dantonio was not the only person to mention neil mcneice as a potential suspect in the case. This friend of gary trianos told detective keith st. John about neil mcneice not long after the murder. But did you tell them about a person by the name of neil mcniece . Yes. They asked you about leads and you gave them a lead. Is that correct . Yeah, from what a friend of mine, just something he had said. Reporter so why didnt the detective at least go talk to neil mcneice . Because thats just one of those things that falls through the cracks . Or because you guys were so focused on pam phillips . Thats what the defense would have you believe, that we were focused onto pam phillips. I would say that there were eight to ten, what i felt were viable leads, in addition to pam phillips. And neil mcneice wasnt one of em. No. In hindsight . You wish youd dragged neil mcneice into a little tiny room and asked him some questions . Of course. And if youd done that, what do you think you wouldve found . Based on the evidence that ive seen, both from our investigation and from the defense investigation, is we would have cleared him some way. Or we wouldve it would not have risen to any kind of a level where he woulda been a suspect. Reporter there was nothing to the mcneice story, said investigators and prosecutors. The true killer was the person sitting in that courtroom. And if there were any doubts, the prosecution had a star witness who was about to share the secret shed kept for nearly two decades. Coming up i just didnt feel safe. Reporter a former friend turns powerful foe. She started talking about how easy it would be to hire a hitman. Reporter when dateline continues. Come to mcdonalds and play peel. Play. Ole ole. You could win a trip to the 2014 fifa world cup finals match in brazil. Ba da ba ba ba i wanted to do some good for them, so im trying hellmanns with olive oil. Im kinda nervous. You dont mess with a firemans hellmanns. Hey mike, seriously, so good. Well you know, thats not hellmanns on your sandwiches. Its hellmanns with olive oil. Whaddaya want, a parade . [ laughter ] give me another sandwich. [ male announcer ] hellmanns mayonnaise dressing with olive oil. The delicious taste of hellmanns, with the goodness of olive oil. Reporter it had taken nearly two decades to bring pam phillips to trial. And according to prosecutors, there was no doubt she was guilty of murder. Folks, theres one reason that gary triano was murdered, one reason. He was murdered because his death benefited Pamela Phillips in a big, big way. Reporter and while there was no physical evidence tying pam phillips or ron young to the car bomb that killed gary triano, and nothing placing either one of them in tucson at the time of the murder, prosecutors urged the jury to listen carefully to those phone calls between ron and pam that were recorded after the murder. There is talk of an agreement i am not going to keep sending you more and more and more money unless i know that you can honor our agreement. Reporter and doing something for pam no one else would do. I also, helped you on something that was you know, beyond what anybody else in the world would probably do. Reporter neither pam nor ron ever explicitly says those payments were for a murder. Thedefense argument was that he was extorting her. Right. What was it that ron young could have on her that she had to pay him 400,000 if it wasnt the murder. Reporter and if those tapes didnt persuade the jury, prosecutors had one more star witness. A woman who was about to share publicly the secret shed kept for a very long time. Pams husband gary and the gentleman that i dated played golf together. Reporter her name is Laura Chapman and she first met pam back in the late 80s. She was really sweet, really nice. Reporter the two became good friends, and laura had a front row seat to pam and garys upscale lifestyle. They had a dining room table that actually came up out of the grou out of the floor, which i thought was a little bit over the top, but it was interesting. Reporter it was a lifetyle that laura says pam wasnt pleased to part with, when garys finances started to crumble. To pam, that was more significant than thinking to yourself, well, okay, but hes a wonderful guy, and i love him, and hes the father of my children . I have to wonder if there if she really, truly ever did love him, or if it was just the lifestyle that they had that she was in love with. Reporter and when pam and gary separated, pam told laura about the problems they were having. She started talking about how easy it would be to hire somebody, that she should just hire a hit man and have him taken out. And how easy it would be, because he had such a predictable schedule, that he played golf every day. And then she started talking about their insurance policy, the Life Insurance policy, and, of course, you know, at the time, you think its just somebody whos venting, you know, angry. You dont think shes actually plotting the murder of her husband. Of course not. You just thought this was pam lettin off steam . Yeah. Reporter and so laura brushed the conversation aside. This, of course, was three years before gary trianos murder. Pam and laura stayed friends, even after pam moved to aspen. And then, november 1, 1996, laura heard the news about the car bombing at la paloma. Remember once i heard who it was, that it was gary, i remember saying to my husband, oh my gosh, she really did it. Reporter but laura chose not to go to the authorities. His body parts were blown all over Sunrise Drive. And it was gruesome. And knowing that somebody could do that, and take a father away from five children, i i just didnt feel safe. Reporter and so for years laura kept that secret. Until one evening in 2011, while dining at a local restaurant, she saw garys daughter, heather. And something told her, it was time. I said, heather, i think that theres something that i need to tell you. And i told her what pam had shared with me that night at her house. Reporter and the very next day, laura shared her story with detective st. John. What made you decide to come forward . Seeing heather and knowing how much she loved her father, and knowing that what i knew could possibly help them convict the person who was responsible for his murder. Reporter on the stand, the defense attacked laura saying she must not have been remembering things clearly because of a brain tumor shed been diagnosed with back in 2005. Which laura says is nonsense. You sure youre remembering that conversation with pam accurately . Absolutely. Have your health problems, has the brain tumor that you survived in any way impacted your memory of things like that . Absolutely not. How important a witness was laura . I think she was very important. I think she was critical. This was pam phillips saying that i could hire somebody to take him out. I have insurance on him. His golf game is is pretty predictable. I could do it. Um, and thats exactly what happened. Reporter of course garys niece melissa had never wavered from her belief that pam was guilty. Shes the only person that could gain anything from his death monetarily. Reporter as the trial headed toward its close unklesbay and his cocounsel nicol green felt confident. But one never knows, which way a jury will go. We both firmly believed that we had the right person on trial. We both firmly believed that the evidence showed that she was guilty. And the question was given the circumstantial nature of the case, did we produce enough . Reporter coming up, a 17year investigation comes down to a single moment. It was overwhelming. My heart breaks. My heart breaks. Reporter the verdict. And here. But what about here . [ female announcer ] neutrogena® visibly even daily moisturizer with a clinically proven soy complex. It diminishes the look of dark spots in 4 short weeks. And just like that your skin will look radiant and more even. Even from here. [ female announcer ] visibly even moisturizer and new bb cream. From neutrogena®. On a wide selection of your favorite food brands. All with our unbeatable price guarantee get 10 cesar® trays for 7 and save 4 on a pedigree® bonus bag. Your local petsmart® has everything your pet needs that i had sensitive teeth, i didnt want to change toothpastes, i already had a product that made my mouth feel clean. The first thing he recommended was sensodyne. It helps with the sensitivity issues, and it satisfies the needs that i would look for in a toothpaste. Ive been hearing good things about sprints new network. Oh, its unbelievable. Fewer dropped calls, better call quality. Its fast, right . Sprint a un tout nouveau reseau lte avec un spectre tribande. You can also text. Yes, you can also text. Its tres good. Okay. I, i dont know where to go with that. [ male announcer ] join americas newest network, now with faster speeds, fewer dropped calls and better call quality. Happy connecting, from sprint. Reporter april 2, 2014. It had been seventeen years, five months, and one day since gary triano and the life hed lived had parted company. Now each side had one last chance. The defense insisted that investigators had blinders on when they went after pam phillips, carelessly ignoring other possible leads, like neil mcneice, who had openly wished gary triano dead. Theres plenty of proof that we have shown you that theres a reasonable doubt. And the state went after the easy marks, the woman who got a 2 million insurance policy and the guy that was extorting her. Reporter but, said the prosecutor, the idea that anyone else was responsible for this murder other than pam and her coconspirator ron young was just pure fantasy. It makes for a good story, that neil mcneice didnt like gary triano, it musta been him. Makes for a good story that hes got a friend who does model airplanes and has gizmos that are similar to those used in the bomb. Makes for a good story. It is time to hold Pamela Phillips responsible for her crimes. It is time to find Pamela Phillips guilty. Ladies and gentlemen, youre excused to deliberate. Reporter and so the jury retired, and everyone else waited you feel confident as the jury went out . Ive been doin it long enough to never be confident about anything. Reporter after twoandahalf days of deliberations the jury had a verdict. And the story that had been the talk of tucson for so many years entered its final chapter. We the jury find Pamela Anne Phillips guilty reporter pam phillips guilty of first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. For the nowretired sheriffs detective james gamber, it was finally over. That was the end of a long road for you guys. Yes. Went from my second homicide to my last homicide. Reporter but when word spread amongst garys friends and family, there were few, if any, cheers. It was overwhelming. It was surreal. This is a sad, sad story in every aspect of it. The day that she was convicted was very a bittersweet day. Why bittersweet . Im a mom. And i was extremely saddened for all the children that was involved. Because for his kids with pam, their moms just been convicted of killin their dad. And i cant imagine. And my heart breaks. My heart breaks. Reporter the next month pam was back in court. With her jail issued jumpsuit and grey hair, looking nothing like the moneyed socialite she had wanted so badly to remain. No longer was she the stepmother garys oldest kids, heather and brian, had grown to love. The woman whod been their friend. They each made an emotional statement. My fathers death was sudden and violent. His life was taken as the result of greed, hate, and malice. Reporter heather spoke about the woman shed once defended to think i actually stood up for this woman when others suggested she might have been involved in the murder. I told her that she could keep her head held high because she had nothing to do with this murder. Oh boy, was i wrong. Reporter and then pam phillips had the floor. She turned towards the gallery and spoke out for the first time. Just want everybody to know that i am innocent. I am innocent. I am innocent. Okay . And i am really, really this is hard. So hard for me. Its a nightmare. This is a nightmare. Okay . Its happened. Its a nightmare. And gary was my husband. Okay . Gary was my husband and he was the father of my children. And i am innocent. And i want everybody to know that. This has been a travesty and its a nightmare for me. Okay . And i dont understand how how this could even happen. Right . But i want you all to know that i am innocent. Thank you. Reporter the judge issued his sentence. The woman whod once lived the jetsetting high life would now spend the rest of her natural life in a prison cell. Fair to say that if ron young hadnt kept such careful records and hadnt been such a packrat, that maybe neither he nor pam would be behind bars right now . I think theres a good chance of that. Reporter if it sounds like a victory, the triano family will assure you it isnt. My uncles not coming back. No conviction or life sentence is gonna change that. All it all it did was, you know, make a murderer out of my cousins mother. Nothing else has changed. That. s all for this edition of dateline. Were off next friday for a Meredith Vieira special at 8 00, 7 00 central. Im lester holt. For all of us at nbc news, good night. Eviously oncrossbones. Your assignment is to eliminate the pirate. Blackbeard. We dont use that name here. What are the terms of your tenancy . Im to serve as this islands surgeon. Id like you to help my husband. I get headaches. And are these headaches accompanied by visions . You cannot trust valentine. Finally see the fabled unknown king. [grunts] ah find who sent these men im not responsible for the assault on the commodore, but im compelled to accept that not everyone here will believe me. Tom lowe is innocent. Lucky old innocent you. All that to get what you wanted. If id done in myself, i might have come across as disagreeable. Im glad you didnt hang