this. but first, with some background, here's "eyewitness news" reporter rob nelson. >> it's a move that would impact about 400,000 residents in about 180,000 apartments throughout new york city -- a national ban on indoor smoking in public housing across the country. >> if that's what they need to do to keep everybody healthy, from getting cancer and all that other stuff, that's understandable. >> federal officials say the move would not only cut back on the impact of secondhand smoke, but would also lower building-maintenance costs and reduce the risk of fires. still, critics say it's just another example of government overreach. >> it's a benefit in one way. but it's an intrusion in your personal life and your privacy. >> smoking is already prohibited in the hallways and lobbies of public-housing buildings in the city. but this latest move would be a step further, leaving some to wonder about how to possibly enforce it across the city's more than 300 public-housing complexes. in a statement, the or nycha, said... >> it would be good for us not to smoke in our house anyway, so that's no -- that's good. make the law. >> the new rule would prohibit smoking not just inside units, but also in common areas and administrative offices and even outside as well, within 25 feet of housing and office buildings. you don't like the intrusion in your privacy, but you understand the health benefit. you see both sides. >> yes. yes, i do. you know, and how far is government gonna go? >> at this point, this is all just a proposal. but if the federal government does ultimately approve this, public-housing authorities across the country would have 18 months to put the new rule into effect. reporting from brooklyn, rob nelson, channel 7 "eyewitness news." >> now, before we start diving into the weeds on this issue, let's take a look at the latest nearly 18% of adult americans -- that's about 42 million people -- still smoke cigarettes. it is the leading cause of preventable disease and death. in fact, nearly half a million people every year die in the u.s., and those deaths are blamed on smoking. breaking down those numbers further, 16% of adults who are at or below the poverty line, they smoke. compare that to 29% of people living below the poverty line. it is indeed a disproportionate number of poor people by a factor of nearly two. joining us this morning, patrick kwan, he's director of nyc smoke-free, and ashley engelman from the american cancer society. to both of you, patrick and ashley, thank you for joining us. this is, right now, only a proposal. where does it stand in the, sort of, legislative, mandated perspective here? >> yeah, well, right now, the proposal is to eliminate smoking entirely in all public housing units. that includes smoking in your apartment, but it also includes smoking in the administrative offices or within 25 feet of the buildings. >> of any building. so, kids playing outside, if do that. where does it stand bureaucratically? and why will it take -- there was a lag that rob was talking about of how long it's gonna take before it actually is implemented. why so long? why not just say, "you can't smoke anymore"? >> sure. well, actually, there's a public-comment period for people to participate and share their thoughts. nyc smoke-free has done a number of surveys with nycha residents, and we've found overwhelmingly people who support smoke-free housing protections, including, actually, smokers themselves, who are interested in implementing these. and, so, this gives people an opportunity to chime in and share their comments, and they have time to do so until january 29th -- 19th. >> yeah, 19th. and then what happens? >> that will allow them to take in the feedback from nycha residents and also public-health people who are interested, and, really, the best practices. one of the things that is -- that smoke-free protections are actually not new and has actually been a trend that's been happening. we've seen housing authorities, such as in albany and buffalo, and even our neighbors down in philadelphia, that so far have implemented smoke-free policies. and, so, currently, we are seeing that nycha, which is the largest public-housing authority in the country -- so, we're lagging behind a little bit. >> is this sort of a fait accompli, though? i mean, isn't it -- it's a done deal almost? is there a chance that this won't happen after public comment? >> well, i think there's a lot of people who are paying very close attention to this issue, because what we've seen at nyc smoke-free is that we helped about 3,000 units in new york city to go smoke-free last year. a vast majority of those units are luxury and market-rate buildings. and we're seeing that, you know, people who are in low- and moderate-income housing, whether they be affordable housing or public housing, the smoke-free protections have not reached new yorkers who are on the lower economic, you know, rungs of society. and we're really seeing that this is a tenant-protection measure that will help a lot of these people who are affected by secondhand smoke to have the same protections that, you know, luxury -- new yorkers who live in luxury buildings and new yorkers who live in market-rate buildings. >> yeah, he raises a fantastic point, 'cause it's really important to remember that affordable housing and healthy living should not be mutually exclusive. just because you're in affordable housing does not mean you shouldn't be protected from secondhand smoke or any carcinogen. and right now, i think 45% of americans who live in multi-unit housing are exposed to secondhand smoke. and the american cancer society, the surgeon general clearly say there's no safe level of secondhand smoke. so, if this proposal goes through, it will protect 760,000 children nationally from secondhand smoke in their homes. and, i mean, i can't imagine putting my child to bed at night and smelling secondhand smoke or smelling cigarettes, knowing that that is a deadly carcinogen. >> and when i grew up, you know, both my parents smoked. i smoked as an early teenager. haven't smoked in a long, long time, but, you know, it's -- you were exposed at a certain point. before that surgeon general's warning, you were exposed to secondhand smoke. and if the figures are right, something like 10% to 15% of all deaths are -- lung-cancer deaths in the country are from people who have never had a cigarette. >> yeah, 42,000 people die every year from secondhand smoke. so it is not to be taken lightly. but it's also important to remember that, you know, lung cancer is not just caused by cigarettes. 20% of lung cancer deaths are with people who have never smoked in their life or used tobacco in their life. so there should be an emphasis on research into the other causes of lung cancer. but that said, we do know that smoking cigarettes is the worst thing you can do for your health, and the easiest way to prevent cancer is by quitting smoking. >> a lot of people -- and i will, in full disclosure, say that my mother died at the young age of 61 from lung cancer because she was a smoker. >> i'm sorry to hear that. >> oh, it was just devastating. it was already 25 or 27 years ago, but it's still devastating. it's still painful. and at 61. so, i am not objective about this. i am dead set against it, and i have bribed my children to not smoke. and when they turned 18, my two older kids, got a financial stipend for not smoking if they could prove that they never smoked a cigarette. i took them at their word. but i was so adamant about this. but it still remains a very sensitive issue. you saw that woman, who seemed very rational, talking about privacy. how do you address the privacy issue? >> well, smoke-free housing is really an extension of the current, existing smoke-free protections that we have in new york city. you know, first, when we proposed smoke-free workplace policies, people were concerned and had the very same concerns about, you know, smoke-free restaurants, smoke-free bars, smoke-free parks and beaches. what we found is that once people see smoke-free protections implemented, and once they start breathing and living in smoke-free environments, they enjoy it. and we also see, from a public-health perspective, that of these policies. and one of the things in the affordable housing and public housing in new york city is that, you know, no one wants to be relegated to, like, the smoking section of the restaurants. i remember, growing up, when there was no table available and you were stuck in the smoking section. unfortunately, that's what's happening to new yorkers who live in public housing. they are basically relegated to the smoking stock of the housing. because we've seen a streeteasy survey that came out, and that showed that, you know, smoke-free units cost, on average, $1,300 more than comparable units that have no smoke-free protections. and these are the premiums that we're seeing that people are having. >> and you're saying it shouldn't be like that. >> it shouldn't be. smoke-free housing should not be a luxury, and that's basically the bottom line. >> but don't we see this with all things health-oriented? we see it with food. healthier food is more expensive, so it's less expensive to eat badly. it's less expensive to go to a cheap fast-food place than it is to go buy fresh, organic broccoli, for instance, right? and that's the problem. >> i mean, like we said, i mean, affordable housing and healthy living should not be mutually exclusive. everyone deserves the same protections from secondhand smoke, and that's really what this is about. it's about protecting people. it's about protecting families and children from this carcinogen. >> we have seen dramatic cuts in the rates of smoking here in new york city. and yet the cost of cigarettes goes sky-high. when i was growing up, the cost was 25 or 30 cents a pack. now a pack of cigarettes is $12 to $14 in new york. $6 of that is tax. >> mm-hmm. >> it's very expensive to smoke, and yet the rates -- as we said on that graphic, the rates of smoking among people below the poverty level is twice as much the rates, twice as much high as they are among people above the poverty level. so how do you jive those two things? >> yeah, i mean, it is no secret that smoking rates are exponentially higher in lower-income, lower-educated communities. that said, we know that higher cigarette costs, tobacco taxes, these are incredible tools at lowering smoking rates, and new york city has been a pioneer when it comes to lowering smoking rates citywide. so it is something that definitely works. but it has to go in tandem with, you know, smoke-free housing, labels, with smoking cessation available through your insurance. so, once you have that whole package in place, as we've seen in new york city, because of their incredible smoking rates now -- their incredibly low smoking rates now -- it's really a winning formula. >> one of the things that was really interesting to me in doing the research on this interview -- hundreds of millions of dollars would be saved across the country, in healthcare costs and fire costs, fire-safety costs, and damage costs. >> $153 million public housing will save per year in fire damage alone. >> fire alone, by cutting back and prohibiting smoking. doesn't mean everyone's gonna abide by that, but just from the -- that's the essence of it. that's staggering. and that's our money. >> right. i mean, the public-health benefits are obviously enormous. secondhand smoke is the leading concern here. but fire damage, just regular damage, seeing smoking, normalizing smoking. you know, when kids see smoking in their homes or in their communities, it normalizes it for them, and they think, "oh, this is something that i can grow up to do, because it's what grown-ups do, it's what i see everywhere." so, when we cut back on that, when we eliminate smoking in public housing or in parks and beaches, as you said, you know, that really -- i mean, it changes the way you view smoking as a whole. >> let's talk about lung cancer briefly for a second, because i know you specialize in that. it is underfunded compared to the other cancers. it is the one cancer that has -- where rates have not gone down, mortality rates have not gone down. breast cancer, prostate cancer, their rates are getting better. and lung cancer has not shown great improvement. >> right. the american cancer society has actually invested a huge amount of money in lung cancer, both finding lung-cancer treatments for smokers and non-smokers alike, but also for identifying what is causing lung cancer in people who aren't smokers. right now, we are working with stand up to cancer on a lung-cancer dream team that is laser-focused on finding treatments for lung cancer, cancer. and i do think that there is a lot of hope on the horizon, but we need to continue these investments and research. >> i will say that i work with the lung cancer research foundation, which used to be joan's legacy, which was a small group started here at abc. a former abc and nbc producer who died, joan scarangello, who died from lung cancer, and she never smoked. and so we started a group, her ex-husband started a group, the widower. and it has grown now. and it's my honor to do that. but it is an underfunded -- for research and finding a cure, it's underfunded. there's no question about that. >> right. well, the american cancer society's extramural research program -- what's so fantastic about this research program specifically is that it really focuses on all cancers. so, just because one cancer research grant might be focused on, you know, lung cancer or breast cancer, really, it has the potential to find treatments for all kinds of cancers, 'cause they look at things on the most cellular, minute level. and we've had incredible, incredible success, and we see a lot of hope in the future. >> patrick, it's unfair to give you only 10 seconds, but i want to ask you a quick question. will someday we look back and go, "we once allowed smoking inside the public buildings like this?" >> that's what we're seeing, is that once people see smoke-free protections put into place, they enjoy it and they support it, and it makes people healthier. >> patrick kwan, ashley engelman, thank you both for a lively conversation. it's so important, what you're doing. all right. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> when we come back, we're gonna switch topics. up next, the heartwarming story of a struggling foster child now all grown up and now trying to make a difference and doing it. helping others who are in need. doing it by putting food on the table. >> welcome back to "upclose." we talk a lot about poverty these days -- the income inequality gap, those without. tonight, the story of one new yorker, an "up from the bootstraps" kind of gal, bounced in foster care from one home to another, abused, but now giving back big time and helping feed thousands of people. our guest this morning, debra vizzi, the new president and c.e.o. of community foodbank of new jersey. that's the state's largest anti-hunger and anti-poverty organization. debra, great to have you here. >> thank you for having me. >> you have -- before we get into what you're doing, you have the most incredible backstory. >> [ laughs ] >> and i know you run into people all the time who, when you tell them your backstory, you do it not to brag, but to motivate them. you were a foster kid. i said you've been -- you were abused. what's your short story? 'cause it's quite inspirational. >> well, i entered foster care at birth. and basically, at the age of 12, went into a group-home situation. so, i was in traditional homes up until 12, and then went into a group home until i exited out of the foster-care system. so i really got to see it full circle. you know, i think there were some wonderful people along the way, but i think that anyone can clearly imagine the kind of life that i had. arduous journey, at best. difficult, painful, hard. probably the longest marathon of my life in some ways. and i think that, along the way, i met some wonderful, capable adults who gave me a helping hand and not a handout and taught me the value of education. >> you went to school. >> i did. i did. >> where'd you go? >> i went to cathedral here in new york city, and then went off to buffalo at the urging and suggestion of a teacher in my high school, who was an alumni to the school that i had attended. so, and then afterwards, went to rutgers for my masters in social work. so, you know, really went the but it was because of the career of social work that i gravitated towards a very important career, in my opinion, because i had wonderful social workers that helped me along the way. and i remember as a very young girl thinking, "that's what i want to do." >> those people in the social work industry... >> right. >> ...and it is an industry, a nonprofit industry, but an industry -- would say -- i'll take the other side -- would say, "well, you know, deb, this is exactly -- you're the poster child for what can go right in the foster-care, foster-child, foster-home world." >> mm-hmm. well, i think that there are -- i mean, you know, i'm in my 50s, so certainly it was a very different time. i think there's some wonderful things happening both by, you know, governor cuomo and governor christie. but during the time of my upbringing, it was very, very different. and unfortunately, i was in a foster home that was very abusive. and it was a very difficult journey and something that scarred me to this day. you know, physical abuse, sexual abuse -- the whole gamut of what you read in the papers and what life was like. hard. >> but you overcame it thanks to these other people who came into your life. >> yeah. >> and now you tell that story to other people who might find themselves in tough situations like you were in, being abused or being lonely or just being lost, and hopefully you help them find their way. >> well, i think what's interesting about the story is, i never thought, at the time, that it would be useful. >> mm-hmm. >> you know, it certainly doesn't feel like it would be, but it has been. >> 'cause you've made it that way. >> yeah. well, i think it's been a great message to give to kids that are in foster care -- excuse me. and, also, i think, it has been a credible message for people who are hungry. i was one of those children in shelters. i was one of those kids on the pantry line. so i get to say a message or live a message that not only translates in my words, but in my actions. >> so, let's talk about this new job you have. the largest food bank, anti-hunger organization in the state of new jersey. what do you do? how many people do you serve? one out of five kids in new jersey... >> yes. >> ...are hungry every night? >> right. i mean, last year, we gave out 44 million pounds of food, which is just incredible, even hard to fathom. i think that, when we think of hunger, we think of some overseas problem that isn't in our local community. and i think that there's some perception that these are folks that are not working or perhaps on some sort of a welfare roll, and that is quite the contrary to what we're seeing. we're seeing families who are having difficulty making ends meet, making choices between, you know, carving into their budget for food or sending their child to the doctor and paying a co-pay. so, that's the reality of what we're seeing. and i, like those children, had very difficult times accessing food. and the best way that we can do that is around schools and other places. >> so, all these issues that plague society are all connected to this, right? you heard us talking about the smoking right before this, the segment before -- the expensive nature of cigarettes, and poor people buy those cigarettes, foregoing some other expense, like maybe food. >> right. >> the minimum-wage debate affects the issues you're talking about. it all comes together. >> it does. >> and food is the manifestation of it. >> it is. and, you know, hunger is not just a social issue. it's a health issue, and it's certainly something that we're seeing with kids all the time. i can tell you from my own experience, going to school hungry and what the feels like, not being able to concentrate. you know, my stomach hurting. all those kinds of things are realities still to this day for, you know, 400,000 kids in new jersey and 15 million kids throughout the united states. this is a real problem, and it's something that i think people rally around, around particular but hunger is a 365-day-a-year problem. and it's particularly heightened in summer months because kids are not in school and they're not eating. for seniors, it's certainly a sensitive time. but obviously it's something that we think doesn't happen here. but if one in five children are hungry, that means that somebody on your street is suffering. >> you are the president and c.e.o. of this organization. >> i am. >> not the social worker of the organization. >> [ laughs ] >> so, how much actual hands-on stuff do you still do? 'cause i know you have a big heart. but how much of that do you still do? how much are you just being an administrator? >> well, i mean, certainly i lead this very large charity. but there's not a day that goes by that i'm not walking through the warehouse, seeing how things are going, helping the volunteers. we had 40,000 volunteers walk through our door last year. and if i'm not showing the folks that are coming to volunteer or the kids that need to hear my message that what i'm actually doing to help them, then it you know, that doesn't really mean a lot. so, you know, social work isn't just a job. this is a lifestyle. it's a vocation. it's what i do. it's what i am. and so, you know, packing a bag is just as important as paying attention to the budget. >> and your tough childhood prepared you for this. >> i think it did. i think you're right. i think it gave me a lot of perseverance and a lot of will to survive. >> debra, good luck in your new job. >> oh, thank you so much. >> you're doing good work, helping people not be hungry anymore. thank you, debra. >> thanks. >> when we come back, talk about all in the family. we're gonna talk with the chapin family, all of them, with the exception of the one who is always with them only in their hearts, harry chapin. the family that sings together >> finally this morning, an "eyewitness news" tradition. every year around this time, i interview musical acts for our annual winter's eve celebration here in the lincoln square area. this year, i interviewed the chapin family. they were born here, they were raised here, and they live here. the offspring of the great jazz drummer jim chapin and the brothers of the late, great harry chapin. he wrote "taxi" and "cats in the cradle." remember him? well, harry carries on through the music of his remarkable family. >> ...it now with me >> the family that sings together stays together. that's clearly the harmonious mantra of the chapin clan. it is indeed a family affair, led by brother steve and brother tom, who help keep alive the memory of the missing brother from this clan. >> and the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon >> the most famous brother, harry chapin. >> man in the moon >> harry was killed in an accident on the long island expressway 34 years ago. he was just 38. but he lives through his family's music. >> and the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon little boy blue and the man in the moon >> tom likes to perform his brother harry's songs, but it's not just harry chapin's songs that live on. it's also the things he stood for, like his passion for ending hunger, founding the group called whyhunger. >> the 40th anniversary this year of putting hungry people in touch with food and helping them towards self-reliance. and you think about that on thanksgiving and christmas, when people are having family and people are eating. and yet there's a quarter of our children who are growing up hungry. >> she listened to his visions >> which brings us back to this family's sing-along, carrying on a tradition, really, because, after all, there was a time when families did sing together. that was their entertainment. [ folk music plays ] it is the power of music that keeps this clan singing in unison. >> a great song is an idea with an emotion -- "somewhere over the rainbow," those great songs. and it really works that way, you know, and there's something very medicinal i think about singing together. >> ...forever and a day >> the family that plays together stays together. there's a theme here. there's also a theme about poverty and hunger. share food. so many people depend on all of us to do that throughout the year, not just the holiday time. and on that note, that will do it for this edition of "upclose." if you happen to have missed any of today's programs, you can catch it again on our website, abc7ny. thank you all for watching today. i'm bill ritter, in for diana williams. and on behalf of all of us here

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